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Old 11th March 2013, 15:53   #46
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Karlos,

Can I take your help and start looking at places? I was going to truck the Sunbeam down to Chennai, near my aunts, and to Mr. Ananth, my brother even went to check out the garage, impressive. But he since, fell very ill, and has since then stopped restoring cars it would seem.

There's someone in Coimbatore, but my local mechanic in Coonoor who keeps it running (but wants to do things like replace parts with other availiable parts, like brake shoes from ambassadors), is genuinely loathe for me to give it to a garage who may leave it up on blocks waiting for spare parts, and in the process loose a bunch of parts as apparently is known to happen.

The truth of the matter, is that I'm willing, I have SOME resources to invest in this, but I'm a working professional and can't give it the kind of time that a dedicated car collector and enthusiast can. So I WOULD like to put it in a garage that will return it to me in 6 months to a year.

I suppose I could bring it to Bombay/Pune/Nasik or down to Mysore/Chennai/Coimbatore (which I am checking out)

As you advised, I don't want to fix non-broken parts, but I do want to be able to get everything looked at, cleaned, re-coated/enforced/re-oiled/re-calibrated/re-painted/re-trimmed/re-upholstered. So that it runs well, and doesn't require any major jobs until *I* retire and can do them myself!


Jehan.
ps
Anyone else who feels like piping in with people I should check out please, let me know, or get in touch via pm and we can take it from there.
jehan nasik for sure you will not find out any good restorer, bombay and pune there are quiet a few.

Regards,
Ranjit
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Old 11th March 2013, 17:27   #47
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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........The Sunbeam club has a supplier, you can pm me for details, ............Now, where does one show her off? :-) Still have to run the overhauled engine in properly. Jehan
These days Rootes group cars are not abound, this Sunbeam convertible attached was restored about 2 years ago. I just noticed that changes have been made in the trim on this model from the 1950's to mid 1960's. I wonder if there were changes in the mechanicals too.
Missing trim parts were fabricated.
The engine of the Field Marshalls car could be run in with a trip to Pune. If planned in advance over a weekend, some of us could have a gathering. Must be done soon as the weather is getting rather hot.
(Photo was curtesey Karl)
Hey Jawabiker, you quoted a post of 2009. I think that the car is done and needs to be run in):

Cheers harit
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Old 11th March 2013, 22:29   #48
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Harit,

To pune from Tamil Nadu? That's where the car is. I was thinking of maybe to Bangalore and back for the first one around.

I just need to figure out what kind of support I'm going to need. For a long distance drive. The photos I didn't post were those of it steaming, when we drove it up the ghat from Coimbatore, where I took delivery. a drive it did at least twice a month in the 80s to pick sam up from the airport.

I believe my grandfather used to drive this car cross country a lot.

One thing that's missing on it is the chrome beading that's supposed to sit inset in the rubber beading around the windshield. There's no original availiable, i think it was always plastic (!!!), any thoughts on how to add that little touch?

Attachment 1060293[/quote]

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The engine of the Field Marshalls car could be run in with a trip to Pune. If planned in advance over a weekend, some of us could have a gathering. Must be done soon as the weather is getting rather hot.


Cheers harit
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Old 12th March 2013, 10:53   #49
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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I think we need to get around to identifying a reliable fabricator of various sundry parts, send him the old originals, and ask him to make us a copy from hubcaps to gaskets. The carburettor and fuel pump gaskets and cork/rubber washers they sent for huge amounts were not satisfactory, and we ended up basically using them to create our own.
Things like gaskets and seals for fuel pump, sump etc should not be too difficult, we usually just cut them from a cork sheet since by and large originals are not available or simply too expensive. Hubcaps and other ornamentation is a much more tedious and skilled process, very labour intensive, very expensive, very time consuming. There are now established restoration facilities regularly doing such work, but with limitations.

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Now, where does one show her off? :-) Still have to run the overhauled engine in properly.
I suppose the rally season is at its fag end, maybe Bangalore boys can suggest if some events are expected.

Do be very careful running in the engine, this stage is critical. Run it locally as much as possible at cool times of the day with no traffic, before heading straight to the ghats. I hope the temperature guage is working accurately, it is critical at this point. Has the radiator been completely overhauled or core replaced? Have the water jackets been thoroughly cleaned? Makes all the difference.

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I just need to figure out what kind of support I'm going to need. For a long distance drive.
Bombay boys have started this on a small scale, with 3 trips completed. I joined on 2 of them. Assuming the car is performing satisfactorily, you could carry the following spares (besides a fairly comprehenvise tool kit)
  • Points, condensor, rotor, distributor cap
  • Hose pipes (top and bottom), fanbelts
  • Misc. stips of wire for cleaning or quick fix for electricals
  • Electrical tape
  • Petrol pipe
  • Functional spare wheel, spare tube, functional jack and spanners (we often leave the spare wheel and jack untouched for years, and turn useless when needed)
  • Spare bulbs
  • WD 40, carb spray
  • A pot of grease
  • Random assortment of cloths, pipes, rubber mats
  • Copious amounts of faith in your automobile
Can others add to the list? Its important to highlight that the driver/passengers should know what to do with the spares in case of breakdown, or carry along mistry with you!

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One thing that's missing on it is the chrome beading that's supposed to sit inset in the rubber beading around the windshield. There's no original availiable, i think it was always plastic (!!!), any thoughts on how to add that little touch?
Quite possible that is was plastic, a flexible roll with chrome finish (that diminishes over the years) that fits snug in the groove. Check out VW suppliers, maybe the profile will fit?
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Old 12th March 2013, 11:46   #50
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Has the radiator been completely overhauled or core replaced? Have the water jackets been thoroughly cleaned?
OVERHEATING HAS SEVERAL CAUSES. Karl, water jackets cannot be cleaned. They are just plugs. It is the water passages that need to be properly cleaned. Assuming, and you must ask the guy who worked on the engine, that the water passages were properly cleaned and the metal tubes replaced, I would look at the following areas.

An old radiator core, repaired several times can result in improper heat transfer.
Binding brakes
Slipping clutch
Incorrect valve/ignition timing
Badly sleeved block
Oversized pistons
Incorrect setting of the differential gears
Incorrect tension of the fan belt
Crimp in the hose pipe resulting in inadequate water flow
Leaking/ malfunctioning water pump
Over tight axle nuts
Defective head gasket
Incorrect pressure cap
Inadequate engine compression
Incorrect carb setting{ a very lean mixture}
Driving uphill in the wrong gear( you would be suprised at the number of people who are guilty of this)

Long list? Thats the way it is. Enjoy.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 12th March 2013 at 12:06. Reason: Fixing quote
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Old 12th March 2013, 12:40   #51
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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OVERHEATING HAS SEVERAL CAUSES. Karl, water jackets cannot be cleaned. They are just plugs. It is the water passages that need to be properly cleaned.
My mistake, it is the passages that I was referring to.

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Assuming, and you must ask the guy who worked on the engine, that the water passages were properly cleaned and the metal tubes replaced, I would look at the following areas....
Thanks for sharing.

Allow me to share an experience of mine.

We had bought a Fiat in Bombay, a very original 72 model, in neglect for some time. We were told the car is in fine mechanical condition, and will easily do the trip to Pune. We did a preliminary trial, everything seemed fine, the car was crisp to drive, no alarming sounds, everything apparently in order. Of course the temp guage was not working, they rarely do.

I set off late morning to Pune (alone), by the time I reached kalamboli I could feel the car heating up. Stopped to check water levels - empty. Since I had no place to leave the car in Bombay and had to urgently reach Pune, I removed the radiator cap, decided to continue to Pune carrying loads of extra water. Yes, obviously a grave error on my part. The car stalled every 15 kms, and I nursed her till we reached Lonavala, where I could abandon ship at a friend's place and catch a bus.

I returned a few weeks later with a friend to bring the car to Pune. Before starting we flushed out the radiator, flushed out the water passages, loads of deposits flowed out, which were earlier completely blocking circulation. It was probably not done in decades. A light tune up and the car ran very well.

Right enough, at Talegaon I heard strange noises from the engine that I couldn't ignore any more and we pulled over. Now I was bringing the car on 'direct' petrol (a can bypassing the tank), as I had no idea what condition the petrol tank was in. I forgot to give the can a 'breather' hole, and didn't realise that the pipe was starving for fuel, the jerry can had completely deflated like a baloon and the head gasket blew. We towed her from there onwards. Fortunately she now runs better than ever. And shame on me, I still haven't fixed the temp guage
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Old 3rd April 2013, 10:58   #52
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining


Today is the Birth anniversary of Sam Bahadur, and I am sure Field Marshal would be very pleased to know , that we remember him with great love and respect !!
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Old 22nd October 2014, 20:03   #53
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For those of you following this thread. Long overdue.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 08:13   #54
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Karlos,

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...car-parts.html

Any thoughts on who the best people in the forum would be to answer these threads on fabricating gears for my Sunbeam?

Anjan,

I was reading through these and was hoping you could help me find the right person in Mumbai to possibly help with creating these parts? Or know a team-bhpian who may know?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/post-w...car-parts.html

Jehan

Last edited by benbsb29 : 23rd October 2014 at 08:38. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 13:48   #55
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Jehan,

The best place to get gears fabricated is in coimbatore. Get in touch with local guys who will help out. If you still want to get it done in Bombay, send me your mail id or a number and I will put you in touch with people.

A small suggestion,be a bit more active on the forum, contribute with this cars history, stories when Sam used the car etc etc. It will make other members happy and suggestions will flow with greater enthusiasm

Not meaning to offend, one should not use this forum only when you want help. You must have lots of material , pictures etc, re the car , please think of sharing. Also, your driving experiences in this car would interest us all.

We are driving to Connor on the 1st of November, if around why not bring the car and show it to us?
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Old 23rd October 2014, 22:57   #56
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Jehan,

The best place to get gears fabricated is in coimbatore. Get in touch with local guys who will help out. If you still want to get it done in Bombay, send me your mail id or a number and I will put you in touch with people.

A small suggestion,be a bit more active on the forum, contribute with this cars history, stories when Sam used the car etc etc. It will make other members happy and suggestions will flow with greater enthusiasm

Not meaning to offend, one should not use this forum only when you want help. You must have lots of material , pictures etc, re the car , please think of sharing. Also, your driving experiences in this car would interest us all.

We are driving to Connor on the 1st of November, if around why not bring the car and show it to us?
Hi Mr. Jehan

It's such a great pleasure to see this car after such a long time. My last memory of this car was when Mr. Manekshaw would drive down to lower Coonoor in this beauty along with his 3 companions, his aid a Gurkha and his two majestic German shepherds and park the car at Jawaherpet, the local car park area.

As school kid I would always run up to The Field Marshal and shake hands with him. I don't remember how many times I had done this, because I have done it every time I see the Marshal.

Oops, sorry! You would be wondering how I know all this. I am a native of Coonoor, I was born and brought up there. I did my entire schooling at St. Joseph's College, the same school where The Field Marshal studied. The marshal used to be the chief guest for many school sports days celebrations at the SJC.

I still remember the two German shepherds he used to get along. They used to be at the rear seat, both sticking their heads out through the rear windows and so well behaved. The Gurkha would once in a while allow me to stroke them.

Always admired the car then but was to young to know what car it was. But knew it was an imported or FOREIGN car, as how we used to say any car that wasn't an Ambassador, Fiat or a Vauxhall. Those days there were so many Vauxhalls running as taxis. Wonder what happened to all those Vauxhalls!

It's so nice to know that you are taking all the pains to maintain this car in memory of your great grandfather. I recently restored my dads 1955 Fiat Millecento in his memory. So can understand the anxiety in taking care of it.

I am a consultant in KMCH, Coimbatore. I live at Race course, please feel free to contact me if you need any help from Coimbatore.
My mobile number is 9994078668 or PM me.
Hope I can meet you in person next time when I come home to Coonoor. I live in Woodcote, near Mount Pleasant.

Longing to see this beauty again after nearly three decades.

Regards.
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Old 23rd October 2014, 23:12   #57
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Bulldogji,

I have felt a bit guilty about the fact that I use this forum only when I need something rather than contributing heavily to it. However, life, time, and work dictate that I can't spend too much time writing things up. However, I'll tell you that reading through the forums at various times, has helped me massively in selecting my rides (I drive a i10 Grand Diesel top end variant and love every second behind the wheel). and in deciding on various things such as drives, routes etc.

However, I am a newbie, not knowing much about cars (I enjoy driving them, that's about it), and while i do read a lot, there;s little i can add to the wealth of knowledge here.

The car is in my grandfathers house, in the garage, under tarp because of the shattered gears. The best mechanic in the nilgiris went down to coimbatore to get it fabricated and got a huge run around, had to foot a courier bill, and at the end of the day after three trips following up was told it can't be done. So back to square one, HE's the one who told me to get back to Bombay with the part and try there.

As for the stories, there's nothing except that I loved the car as a child, I loved rides in it. I loved putting the overdrive switch on when sam would say 'now' on the coimbatore mettapalyum straights, and listening to ABBA or BONEY M (I think he thought these were the rage for our generation) as we hit the hairpin bends and I remember a mechanic called Bala who I never remembered being anything but covered head to toe in grease.

The car has a much longer history than that, driven by Sam from posting to posting, its been to Jamu, Calcutta, Delhi, Ferozepur, and many other places. It did long distances beautifully, and as a sports coupe, easily managed 80kph (it weighs about the same as a tank), but that's from all before I was born.

He gave it to me. Because I loved it so much. I preserve it because to me - the house it lives in, and it go together, one cannot exist without the other. This is the car you must see in the driveway when you come up the slope.

These are my stories of the sunbeam.

You should also take pleasure in the fact that while the forum encourages participation, it has enough of a core community that makes it an enriching experience for anyone using it. This forum helped me find my restorer, knowledge on people who love preserving cars, and has kept me from making stupid decisions ignorantly. As such, it has done exactly what it needs to do in relation to me. Not everyone is a contributor. :-)

I have stories about the restoration as well, but they're not for public consumption and have been a slightly bitter sweet experience, the gentleman who restored it really did do his best, and has had his intentions in all the right places, but his problems with his mechanic did affect the job somewhat that even though I felt I was being done a big favour by him (he had stopped taking projects prior to this), it was hard to appreciate the work when the car was handed back to me, and it did take some rectifications on our part here in Coonoor.

You're welcome to see the car, except its under tarp in Coonoor until such time as the gears are sorted out. Then, the next time I'm up here, I'll ping all of you to say look out for it, and we can set up a weekend date.

Now, what do I do for fabrication in Mumbai?
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Old 24th October 2014, 07:25   #58
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Hi Jehan,

Please contact me post November 15th and I will help you out. The first attempt could be to rebuild the worn/broken teeth. I did that in my ford and the repairs are about 18 years old without any subsequent problems.

if that is not possible, there is someone who may fabricate, but that process is very tedious, involves knowledge of metallurgy and is extremely expensive, at least in Bombay.

When we meet we could discuss the option of imports, may be your best bet.

I have spent many a happy evening with your Grandfather, and I cherish the oil paintings given to me by your grandmother, who was no less talented, albeit in other fields.

It will be a pleasure to help you get Sam's car going, PM your contact details and lets get in touch.
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Old 24th October 2014, 19:10   #59
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Bulldog-ji,

I think my rights as a 'newbie' dont' allow me much in the way of PM'ing etc. Apparently you're not the only one who has noticed my participatory nature on the forum. :-)

What to do? my email id personal is jehan sam &AT& g mail no spaces...

Jehan
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Old 24th October 2014, 22:17   #60
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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I think my rights as a 'newbie' dont' allow me much in the way of PM'ing etc.
Just two more posts!

Did Rootes manufacture its own axles/ differentials, or buy it from a vendor?

How open are you to a juggad half solution (= half problem)?

Regards
Sutripta
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