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Old 25th October 2014, 07:57   #61
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Question Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

Did Rootes manufacture its own axles/ differentials, or buy it from a vendor?

How open are you to a juggad half solution (= half problem)?
I'm not sure, I'll ask the sunbeam club in the UK on email today.

My fear right now is that I think - according to my mechanic in the Nilgiri's that the axel/diffrential was possibly not put in to the ideal alignment (the rapier worskhop manual has such strict details on the measurements) and one climb up the ghat was all it took to break the teeth. It may have been wear and tear, but all the original steel components in the drive shaft have lasted so long, why would they break now? by that logic lots of other moving parts should have started coming apart.

I don't want a solution that causes more problems. We couldn't get the original fuel pump to give the correct suction, so the restorer's mechanic put in an electric fuel pump which over supplied the engine, (we also had a small fire).

Jugad's only work if they actually are a jerry rig that does exactly what the original did. (you know, like rolled up plastic bags becoming fan belts - albeit temporarily - my favourite! )

What did you have in mind?
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Old 25th October 2014, 11:32   #62
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Dear Jehan,

Welcome to the world of vintage nightmares.

The pictures show damaged gears, NOT due to normal wear and tear. Whoever overhauled your differential messed it up and should be held resposible. We do have people in Bombay who can sort out your problem, but it will take time, money and a lot of patience.

Original mechanical pumps can be substituted with modern submersible or electric/electronic fuel pumps. However output pressure has to be considered and if needed a return line installed to prevent damage to the needle valve assembly, possible flooding of the carb , etc.

I have fitted these pumps to several cars and they are running for decades without a problem. You just have to get it right.

I will not comment on the garage that worked on your car, that is not my nature. I can only say, bring the car to Bombay and I can help get it back to what it should be.

However, be warned , it is an expensive exercise, especially once it has been messed up, as seems to be the case. If the differential was spoilt, I shudder to think what the state of the rest of the mechanicals are in.
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Old 25th October 2014, 18:11   #63
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Some useful links

A relative had an old Hillman Minx for which my uncle found a source for parts, sadly the place has shut down. Try these

http://www.rootesparts.com/

http://www.sunbeam-alpine.co.uk/

Note the Humber Sceptre, Hillman Minx, Sunbeam Rapier are all the same underneather
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Old 25th October 2014, 19:44   #64
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Drkannant View Post
Always admired the car then but was to young to know what car it was. But knew it was an imported or FOREIGN car, as how we used to say any car that wasn't an Ambassador, Fiat or a Vauxhall. Those days there were so many Vauxhalls running as taxis. Wonder what happened to all those Vauxhalls!
here but Dr. Kannan, do you actually mean VANGUARDS (made by Standard?) I understand there were a lot of them in Niligiris until even the mid 90s. Vauxhalls I've never heard of as taxis in that region.
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Old 25th October 2014, 19:53   #65
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Dear Jehan,

Welcome to the world of vintage nightmares.

The pictures show damaged gears, NOT due to normal wear and tear. Whoever overhauled your differential messed it up and should be held resposible. We do have people in Bombay who can sort out your problem, but it will take time, money and a lot of patience.

...

However, be warned , it is an expensive exercise, especially once it has been messed up, as seems to be the case. If the differential was spoilt, I shudder to think what the state of the rest of the mechanicals are in.
You have no idea how much this breaks my heart to hear you say this. Everyone in my family told me that to do this was an act of total indulgence, and that I should have just sold the car as - rightly - having a vintage car habit is not something that I am in a position to afford as an individual, I used means left to me by my grandfather towards its preservation (i.e. His money, his car).

To have to now go over a review of the whole thing once again, is just beyond distressing, financially, as well as emotionally as something so dear to me, given in my care has now been put in jeopardy.

I handed it over to the restorer in good faith, and with due diligence (my brother went to check out his workshop and his collection, and he was spoken of well in this forum). I know he suffered from staff problems and unrest in between, but it got to a place where it ended up affecting this work.

You speak of reparations and holding responsible, but honestly, what is one to do?

Right now, the parts come to Mumbai that need reforging/fabricating.

I have never imagined the car anywhere, but in Coonoor, to bring it down... I just don't know...

Jehan
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Old 25th October 2014, 20:08   #66
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Dear Jehan,


Original mechanical pumps can be substituted with modern submersible or electric/electronic fuel pumps. However output pressure has to be considered and if needed a return line installed to prevent damage to the needle valve assembly, possible flooding of the carb , etc.

I have fitted these pumps to several cars and they are running for decades without a problem. You just have to get it right.

.
Our Mechanic here in the Nilgiris actually managed to get the original pump working again.

The electric, installed by the restorer, is there on the side as a standby, but I don't think its been calibrated correctly as we did have a fire when we used it.

Can I meet you when in Mumbai? Maybe look at other options?

Jehan
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Old 25th October 2014, 23:08   #67
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Jehan-Sam View Post
You have no idea how much this breaks my heart to hear you say this. Everyone in my family told me that to do this was an act of total indulgence, and that I should have just sold the car as - rightly - having a vintage car habit is not something that I am in a position to afford as an individual, I used means left to me by my grandfather towards its preservation (i.e. His money, his car).

To have to now go over a review of the whole thing once again, is just beyond distressing, financially, as well as emotionally as something so dear to me, given in my care has now been put in jeopardy.

Dear Jehan
Don't worry so much , there is nothing which cannot be repaired or replaced , what you have inherited is a national heirloom for which you are the rightful custodian, you did the right thing by not selling the car, which you should not think about even now.

Take a breather ,this is fantastic forum and you are in the right place. I think you should get in touch with bulldogji and he will surely sort out things for you.
All the best wishes.

Kartik
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Old 26th October 2014, 03:57   #68
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
here but Dr. Kannan, do you actually mean VANGUARDS (made by Standard?) I understand there were a lot of them in Niligiris until even the mid 90s. Vauxhalls I've never heard of as taxis in that region.
Mr. Stanher,

I am sure there were lot of vauxhalls running as taxis in Coonoor and Ooty.
I come from Coonoor sir! I know my town pretty well.

I have posted a picture for for your reference. You can see two taxis there which are VAUXHALLS. You can refer the registration plate of one of the cars. It is TNN which is Nilgiris registration so this picture is from the Nilgiris.

You are right there were VANGUARDS also but not as many as the VAUXHALLS.

In fact you had mentioned the same earlier in another thread when I had mentioned about VAUXHALLS used as taxis in Coonoor. Thought I need to correct you on this at least this time.

Sorry to be off topic.
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Old 26th October 2014, 10:52   #69
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Jehan,

Now that you can send a PM, send me one with your contact number and I will call and meet up once back from our south drive mid November.

I have lovely memories of your grandparents, it will be my endeavour to get this car going once again. BUT, unless we have the car in Bombay, we will not be able to test the fabrication work carried out. We need to fabricate, assemble, align and then fit the whole assembly on the car , take trials and adjust the clearances after a test drive to ensure you have no issues after which the car can return home.

I can understand your frustration, it happens. We just need to put this bitter experience behind and move ahead .

Also, keeping this disaster in mind, I would be happier to give the whole car a thorough check to possibly prevent something else from giving way.

What happened is un forgivable , the restorer must be made to pay for this.
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Old 26th October 2014, 21:25   #70
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by Jehan-Sam View Post
My fear right now is that I think - according to my mechanic in the Nilgiri's that the axel/diffrential was possibly not put in to the ideal alignment (the rapier worskhop manual has such strict details on the measurements) and one climb up the ghat was all it took to break the teeth. It may have been wear and tear, but all the original steel components in the drive shaft have lasted so long, why would they break now? by that logic lots of other moving parts should have started coming apart.
Hypoids are notoriously difficult to set just right. But knowing 'restorers' I doubt he would even touch a hidden away from the world diff if it was apparently running OK! Was the diff clunky or whiny before the restoration?

Quote:
I don't want a solution that causes more problems. We couldn't get the original fuel pump to give the correct suction, so the restorer's mechanic put in an electric fuel pump which over supplied the engine, (we also had a small fire).
Guess he must have used a feed pump of a FI car. These will cause problems in a carb setup, unless the person knows what he is doing.

Quote:
Jugad's only work if they actually are a jerry rig that does exactly what the original did. (you know, like rolled up plastic bags becoming fan belts - albeit temporarily - my favourite! )
Actually you are supposed to ask your travelling companion to lend you her stockings!

Quote:
What did you have in mind?
From the pics, the crown looks repairable, the tail I have my doubts.
There are a number of approaches to the problem. Go with the one of the person doing the repairs, as long as he inspires your confidence. (The same also goes for advisers on the forum!) Ask him to explain very clearly how he intends to proceed, and discuss that on this forum. So have a detailed talk with Bulldogjis restorer first.

Do keep in mind that the crown - tail assembly takes a tremendous amount of strain, more so in your case when you are driving in the hills, and that a repaired (ie teeth built up) pinion is not the same as a new piece.

I think you will have better luck sourcing NOS from UK.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 26th October 2014 at 21:29.
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Old 29th October 2014, 03:40   #71
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Bulldog, Sutripta,

Thanks for the advice, I'll get in touch with you Bulldog via PM now (if I can figure it out).

"The Restorer" - How exactly am I going to make him make reparations for this? They'll only ask the car to be returned so they can right it, at best, at cost (which I think the restoration was done at - in hnr of Sam).

Anyway, will talk of all this when we meet in person. I had one more alternative to be considered about the utilisation of the mechanic in the nilgiris who knows the car well and serviced it for many many years before we sent it for the complete restore job.

J
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Old 20th November 2015, 13:20   #72
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

Just curious. Is the car repaired and back on the road? Hope that is the situation because as somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, she is a national heritage.

Regards,
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Old 20th November 2015, 16:04   #73
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

National Heritage ? curious on that title bestowed

Cheers

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Just curious. Is the car repaired and back on the road? Hope that is the situation because as somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, she is a national heritage.

Regards,
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Old 20th November 2015, 16:26   #74
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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National Heritage ? curious on that title bestowed

Cheers
The car in question is a family heirloom. And National Heritage ''title'' has been bestowed, because- THIS car was owned by none other than-

Field Marshall Sam Manekshaw. Aka our very own ''Sam Bahadur''!

You may refer to: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Manekshaw )
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Old 25th November 2015, 08:45   #75
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Default Re: Sunbeam Rapier Series 1 - Advice on Restoring and Maintaining

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Originally Posted by FINTAIL View Post
The car in question is a family heirloom. And National Heritage ''title'' has been bestowed, because- THIS car was owned by none other than-

Field Marshall Sam Manekshaw. Aka our very own ''Sam Bahadur''!

You may refer to: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Manekshaw )
WOW!

No words. Its a privilege indeed.
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