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Old 24th June 2010, 12:57   #286
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Pawan, I can feel your pain where-in you are suffering for no-reason i.e. just for your passion and helping the guy to restore the beauty.

Rather than visiting his house with workshop people I would also suggest to go via POLICE way, This way you'll safe enough in case he/she calls up police at the time you'll be visiting him.

Apart from this, Visiting police ain't a good sign anyhow in Indian tendency so High chances will be of getting your payment remitted on-the-spot only. In-case they wants to enter into litigation and take it further then you should deposit the car @ police station/court so as they cannot claim car's depreciation from you during the case's hearing.

My prayers are with you.. !!
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Old 24th June 2010, 14:34   #287
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Pavan, my sympathies with you. You should keep your mind cool in such times and rather than taking 15 people to his house and demading money, I would advice you to lodge a complaint against such scoundrels.

BTW, the title should be changed to "Terrible experience while dealing with Naren Beliappa"
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Old 24th June 2010, 16:03   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Really the fact is
1: It should have been made clear that the restoration was being done as a favour
2: You should have taken reasonable advances and made it clear that you would be taking advances at the various stages
3: I think you need to first talk to him. Yes, he has lied saying he is away. Would be best just to bump into him and get a dialouge going

Don't let your anger get the better of you
Ajit, Initially when i took up this project, i had mentioned to him, that this is my hobby, and i dont expect any monetory benefit out of it, nor in any kind. I told him time and again that i am doing a favour.

Everytime i go for advances this joker used to give small amounts with pre-discounts, i have signed all papers for which i have received money. I have my log book on the amount of money paid and pending amounts. Document wise everything is clear on papers. Its only that i have not received lumpsum payemnts.

I am the most simplest person you can ever come across. I am not a hermit, but i shall be calm and composed during my visit, I hope if Beliappa has a bit of self respect he will pay-up the dues. Else even God will not spare him during his last phases of life.

Presently he's on the wrong side and is hiding, but how long can one hold on with Guilt, hope better sense prevails on him and the poor and needy mechanics and painters get their due.
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Old 24th June 2010, 16:53   #289
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I wonder if he is silently reading all these posts!!
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Old 24th June 2010, 17:01   #290
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Guys guys, since the owner too is a bhpian, why hasnt he come out with his side of the issues till now?? He should be very well aware of the posts and this only makes the scales tip in favour of PAvan kadam!!
Pavan sir, as an collection service provider for some MNC's, i really pray that you abstain from going in groups and driving away with whatever car is parked there cos it is a very serious offence.
I request you to wait ofr sometime and the best way to sort out is through mutual talking and if that fails too, you can very well approach legal remedy stating that you were cheated.
Please Please DONT LET YOUR EMOTIONS CONTROL YOUR ACTIONS cos in such situations, ACTIONS ONCE DONE CANNOT BE UNDONE.
Please take it as a request from one of your many well wishers
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Old 24th June 2010, 22:57   #291
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Originally Posted by ch.nathan View Post
I wonder if he is silently reading all these posts!!
View Profile: Americans58-65
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Does that answer your questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzbala View Post
Guys guys, since the owner too is a bhpian, why hasnt he come out with his side of the issues till now?? He should be very well aware of the posts and this only makes the scales tip in favour of PAvan kadam!!
Pavan sir, as an collection service provider for some MNC's, i really pray that you abstain from going in groups and driving away with whatever car is parked there cos it is a very serious offence.
I request you to wait ofr sometime and the best way to sort out is through mutual talking and if that fails too, you can very well approach legal remedy stating that you were cheated.
Please Please DONT LET YOUR EMOTIONS CONTROL YOUR ACTIONS cos in such situations, ACTIONS ONCE DONE CANNOT BE UNDONE.
Please take it as a request from one of your many well wishers
I am not for such drama's. As i've mentioned i am a simple human being, who did a favour to someone and was taken for one big ride.

I have sent numerous mails, numerous phone calls, numerous sms's , shamelessly they are all un-answered. I wll be calm and composed as always tomorrow, will not take any people along with me,Will go alone, since doing such things is way below my dignity.

I hope everyone's prayers here helps me in recovering the said money. Thank you all once again.
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Old 24th June 2010, 23:22   #292
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This thread has really lost its charm. What started with a fantastic restoration had ended up in such a way. I agree with benzbala every bit.
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Old 25th June 2010, 14:50   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Its best to clear any issues privately rather than in from tof the whole world.

And this forum and this specific thread is about cars and the Wolsley in question.

The debate if it needs to be extended could be moved to a specific thread on this but it has no place on an auto restoration thread

fully with this and I think it is better not to discuss private emails publicly.
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Old 25th June 2010, 15:02   #294
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Guys, its good that Pavan is sharing these details with all of us. This is to ensure that no one gets taken for granted the way Pavan is suffering.

Those of you who have had amounts outstanding to be received from buyers will understand the pain one goes through to recover them, endless phone calls, visits, etc. I speak from personal experience & would advise caution in dealing with new buyers.

Atleast we come to know the true colors of the owner & take caution in future business dealing with him if any.
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Old 25th June 2010, 17:30   #295
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Hey Pavan.. all the best. I hope it goes/ went well today
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Old 25th June 2010, 17:43   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Guys, its good that Pavan is sharing these details with all of us. This is to ensure that no one gets taken for granted the way Pavan is suffering.

Those of you who have had amounts outstanding to be received from buyers will understand the pain one goes through to recover them, endless phone calls, visits, etc. I speak from personal experience & would advise caution in dealing with new buyers.

Atleast we come to know the true colors of the owner & take caution in future business dealing with him if any.
this is part of the Restoration Game , this is the reality show .This (what Pavan had ) is not so sweet, but the Real story behind the sceenes.
Any one might feel this Irrlevent here, but let people be aware (specially new comers to old cars & restorations)
This can happen viceversa also
True colours of life are unfortunately not so sweet, let Pavan open his mind , that might easeup his pain .Cant we do it ? as fellow bhpians?
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Old 25th June 2010, 23:16   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit View Post
Guys, its good that Pavan is sharing these details with all of us. This is to ensure that no one gets taken for granted the way Pavan is suffering.

Those of you who have had amounts outstanding to be received from buyers will understand the pain one goes through to recover them, endless phone calls, visits, etc. I speak from personal experience & would advise caution in dealing with new buyers.

Atleast we come to know the true colors of the owner & take caution in future business dealing with him if any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmarishi View Post
Hey Pavan.. all the best. I hope it goes/ went well today
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
this is part of the Restoration Game , this is the reality show .This (what Pavan had ) is not so sweet, but the Real story behind the sceenes.
Any one might feel this Irrlevent here, but let people be aware (specially new comers to old cars & restorations)
This can happen viceversa also
True colours of life are unfortunately not so sweet, let Pavan open his mind , that might easeup his pain .Cant we do it ? as fellow bhpians?

Wonderful forum with wonderful people.

Thank you all guys for guiding me throughout the restoration.

See you all on my other restoration threads.

I met up with Beliappa today, returned back almost all the spares that i had of that car. Started the car for one more time, and spent almost 5 hours to understand what is not logic.

I take leave on a good note, without the payment

Tomorrow morning i am clearing the workshop guys bills as promised.

Request the moderators to close this thread

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 25th June 2010 at 23:19.
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Old 25th June 2010, 23:19   #298
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Before the thread closes, it was a different learning for all of us. Good luck and be well prepared for worst situation for your future restoration projects.

Regards,
Sujith.
Arun and entire FCB
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Old 26th June 2010, 00:21   #299
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Well its a rather sad end. You can only leave it to god to punish people like that! Trust me I have seen it happen where people have been brought to justice within my own family without anyones intervention!
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Old 25th August 2010, 21:05   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
P
The car in the below pic is :

1958 MG Magnette
Left Hand Drive
Side valve ,4 cylinder ,
BMC-B series engine,
1489cc Petrol Engine
64 Bhp @ 5400 rpm.
with a Max speed of 87 mph
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Nice car. it is not a MG Magnette but a Wolseley 15/50 which was current between 1956 and 1958.

The MG version of this car was called the ZB and featured a different grille, bonnet opening line etc than what can be seen on this car. The main differences would be that the MG had a twin SU setup floorshift and bucket seats.

Basically both have the same engine and bodyshell with some cosmetic and performance mods and marque specific grilles to distinguish them.Power output differred on both as did performance.

The Wolseley version would have a single carb as pictured on this car. The engine is also not a sidevalve as mentioned but the regular B series OHV unit. Gear shift would be column mounted and the front seats close to each other to allow three abreast seating. Wolseley being the upmarket version would have wood door caps and maybe a leather interior.

There is also something funny about the front and rear windscreens, look like they have been replaced at some time.

Please do post pics of the car taken in sunlight and also of the interior. is there a manifacturers plate on the firewall ? what does it say.

Attached are a few representative pictures of the Wolseley and MG for comparison. Note the difference in the grille and the bonnet opening lines. Also the front bumper treatment is different on the MG and the Wolseley

I also have a scanned copy of the MG factory brochure and can post it if wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Wasif, spot on! I too suspected that, that front grille came only on the wolseley! Anyway IMHO it looks better than the MG grille.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the mole View Post
Thats why i kept thinking why is this called a MG, even i thought the grill was from a Wolseley. amazing how all these BMC cars have interchangable parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Wasif, something was bothering me, so I came back to your post and then referred to some literature. Basically, the gear shift would be column mounted if it were a 4/44 (and the engine would be the older Morris unit of course). As Pavan says this is a 1958 model, so should be a 15/50 only as you've pointed out. But the 15/50 had floor shift (besides the new BMC engine of course that you've mentioned, with a single carb for the Wolseley).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Prabal i stand corrected it does indeed have the floor shifter as you pointed out it was the 4/44 that had the column shifter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Front wheels lifted and towed.



We had infact run the car before the paint job, the car had run on its own power from its initial resting place, to the mechanic, after the mechanicals was started , again driven to the tinkers place, and even after tinkering, the same car was driven effortlessly to the painter. All in all a 100 km run. And during testing, i drove the car for over 350 kms in 3 days time. I had a little niggling but very minor issues. We had sorted out all the issues before the D-Day.

We got back to the workshop in Bangalore now, and steering is being worked on. This car i suspect is a RHD to LHD conversion. Even the mechanics say so.

Forget the rest, This engine is a BMC amby engine (has 1500 script on the block) the RC book says engine changed in 1992 from 1098 cc to 1489 cc.

Chances of engine gearbox mating gone wrong.

Steering box will now be given to the lathe to work on. the transmission will be downed by evening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
You have a point there. These Wolsleys were never made in LHD.

BTW why would anyone actually go to the trouble to convert it to LHD beats me.

If the engine is from an Amby then maybe you could get the Amby gearbox and it might work well.

Hope to see your project up and running soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Regarding the RHD to LHD, its baffling me.

Maybe those days, to increase the car value the mechanic would have done this folly, anyways, this was a rather crude modification that gave way.

I feel, using the amby gearbox would make sense now, once in for all getting rid of the tandem master cylinder for good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Now that is the most important thing i need to do before making the next journey in this car. Provided the car owner agrees further.



No Manish. there is a bit of disconnect that i have seen in the RC book. The original 1018 cc engine was replaced by a 1489cc BMC engine way back few years ago, The problem is "Wrong mating" The old gearbox is not able to take the brunt of the present engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post

No spacer, since the amby engine is a BMC engine and the wolsleys had the similar block the engine mates, but the trouble starts with the clutch operation and powerful engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
My suggestion is since the car has an amby engine why not put in an amby gearbox and then just sort the problem out once and for all.You can then get ridof the tandem master cylinder and have a normal cable operated clutch and also change the master cylinder and put in a new master cylinder with a matching servo? Your brakes , clutch and gear box problems are sorted out and then the car can be a reguler user and that is the ultimate aim isn't it ? Consider what i said.

Hello Everyone,

Its been quite a while that this thread has been closed. I recently became a member of the Wolseley Club and have been doing lots of re search on my car and trying to get all the missing bits together.

I remembered that we had a major confusion with identifying what this car was. So i requested our dear friend Mr. Pavan Kadam to send me the photographs of the engine number plate and chassis number plate after trying to contact him for nearly a month. Once i got this, i asked for help in identifying this car and i provided them the details i had. Now here are a few interesting facts we have.

Engine Number Plate -


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Chassis Number Plate -

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So here is the response i recieved from them -

Quote:

Hello Indrojit,

I have finally managed to dig out a little information about your mystery Wolseley.

As others have already suggested it would appear that you have a Wolseley 4/44. The 4/44's body number follows the unified Nuffield system, a series of codes used to identify a car and yours of NAB 33 / 19873 would indicate the following:

N - Type of car - 4/44
A - Type of body - 4 door saloon
B - Paint colour - Light Grey

3 - Specification class - LHD (left hand Drive) Export
3 - Paint type - Cellulose

19873 - Serial number of the body.

All 4/44 models had a chassis number prefix of BWA, so this also confirms the model type.

Looking at my list of known 4/44s I can ascertain that your car was manufactured in the first half of 1955 and that most likely the engine number is that of the original engine. As a matter of course engine numbers, body numbers and chassis/car numbers, were not always identical and often varied by quite a considerable amount.

I hope that this information is useful to you and if you would like any further information please let me know.

Nishka
I also asked him to comment on the originality of the car by sending him some photographs of the car before restoration and here is what his reponse was again -

Quote:
Hello Indrojit

looking quickly at the first few (pre-restoration) pictures, I would say that the car was pretty much in original condition. The obvious areas of non-originality, are the boot badges (MG logo), the silver coachline added around the rear window, The lack of a chrome infill strip in the rear window rubber. A notable part missing would be the rear number plate mounting bracket, which would have been situated in the approximate area of the MG badge on the boot lid. This could however have been different on export models.

The side of the car shows a chrome strip trim, at waist level. This would have been extended from the front wing and over the front door, but not onto the rear door, (this was only added to the later 15/50 models). It would appear that a silver stripe has been added to extend this trim strip.

The front of the 4/44 looks to be pretty original, although I am not sure about the supplementary lights (Fog lights), original 4/44 in the UK only had one fitted, but this may not have been the case for export models.

Hope this helps

Nishka
So by the above text i personally feel that this car had a hit on the boot and in the accident the mounting bracket of the number plate had got damaged and so had the 4/44 badge.

So here are a few pics of a original 1954 Wolseley 4/44 you can now relate to what Nishka was saying about the number plate bracket. Sorry for the quality of the pics.

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Hope this solves the mystry of this Wolseley.

Cheers


Edit - I forgot to mention that i have been trying to call Sir. Pavan Kadam to give him this news before posting it here, but he seems to be really busy and didn't return my call so couldn't help it.

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 25th August 2010 at 21:09.
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