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Old 30th July 2009, 18:07   #1
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Default Columnshift: Engine and gearbox 'retro' fit

Hello Bhpians,

Its a question that has been ringing in my mind. It started when owned a Premier Padmini, and fell in love with the column shifter, not to mention its other virtues.
Although i really like the ride. I always felt the need for some power and somemore comfort.Infact I think if i had a booster assisted, MPFIed, power steering fiat I would have never replaced.

That brings me to the questions-
Firstly, can we fit a MPFI front wheel drive engine in the rear wheel drive setup ?
Secondly, Can a different gearbox be installed ?
Third, Can we have booster brakes and power steering ?

All of the above retaining the most important column shift.

Incase, a modern gearbox with columnshift linkages cannot be installed, what engines can be mated to the existing Fiat 1100/S1 gearbox.

I hope discusions here can be beneficial to both Premier padmini and Ambassador aficianados.

All suggestions and comments are welcome.
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Old 30th July 2009, 18:13   #2
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HI Kavesh,

Yup I've heard of Esteem 1.3 carb engines fitted onto padminis..BUT they all had floorshift gearbox.

Let me try and answer some questions you've put across:

1. Yes a MPFi FWD engine can be fitted in a RWD setup with suitable plumbing arrangements.

2. You can have booster brakes or even disc brakes all around as well as PS

3. I'm not too sure about the GB but especially mating a steering column one to an MPFi esteem engine.

But with a floorshift GB, the fiat is such fun to drive that even 60-80 bhp appears insane in that vehicle!

cheers
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Old 30th July 2009, 18:39   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavesh55 View Post
Hello Bhpians,

Its a question that has been ringing in my mind. It started when owned a Premier Padmini, and fell in love with the column shifter, not to mention its other virtues.
Although i really like the ride. I always felt the need for some power and somemore comfort.Infact I think if i had a booster assisted, MPFIed, power steering fiat I would have never replaced.

That brings me to the questions-
Firstly, can we fit a MPFI front wheel drive engine in the rear wheel drive setup ?
Secondly, Can a different gearbox be installed ?
Third, Can we have booster brakes and power steering ?

All of the above retaining the most important column shift.

Incase, a modern gearbox with columnshift linkages cannot be installed, what engines can be mated to the existing Fiat 1100/S1 gearbox.

I hope discusions here can be beneficial to both Premier padmini and Ambassador aficianados.

All suggestions and comments are welcome.
Some of the fiats came with floor shifts with the bucket seats.
Well putting in a different gear box or different engine is not a problem so long it fits in or will have to make some body modifications.Many people have used MPFi engines in ambys and fiats keeping them rear wheel drive by turning the angine around and finding a gearbox that is suitable.Booster could be fitted depending on the breaks andthe engine fitted.

Last edited by IndrojitSircar : 30th July 2009 at 18:48.
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Old 30th July 2009, 18:55   #4
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1. Fitting an MPFI engine will entail a lot of hassle in all the electronics and such. Secondly you need to have an adaptor plate to mate the gearbox.
2. Yes a different gearbox can be installed but it needs to match the characteristics curves of the engine, all MPFI vehicles are front wheel drive so their gearbox cannot be used.
3. Booster brakes can be had so is the front disc brakes. Power steering would be a difficult conversion
4. For column shift you have to retain the same gearbox.
I see two options
1. Same gear box, tweaked engine like custom headers, free flow exhaust, better ignition, zen carb and like. With boosted brakes and discs.
2. Change complete running gear to the 118 NE (engine till differential) a good option considering the setup can be had for throw away prices.
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Old 30th July 2009, 19:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
3. Booster brakes can be had so is the front disc brakes. Power steering would be a difficult conversion
Hey manishalive, any idea about estimated cost for Booster + front disc combo? I recently bought padmini & brakes needs work. I was planning to change brack pads.
Also, any place in bangalore where we can get brake pads for padmini, .
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Old 30th July 2009, 22:52   #6
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Great replies guys. Let the discussion flow.
I will like to repeat, Steering column mounted gear lever is most preffered.
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Old 31st July 2009, 18:53   #7
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@manishalive- S1 set up would mean 118ne drivetrain.
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Old 1st August 2009, 11:57   #8
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You would not be able to use the column shift gearbox with any modern mpfi engine for a simple reason that the Fiat gearbox is designed to handle only 7 kilogram meter (kgm) torque while almost all the new engines produce more than that. This was pointed out to me by Encyclopedia Behram Dhabhar 2009 Edition within an instant.

If you are ready to take the hassle, why dont you use a 118ne engine (chassis alteration would be imperative ) on a s1 car. For the powersteering issue, a Fiat car with nylon tyres and correct camber and caster is no less than a power steering.

What say ?

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

Last edited by adheesh : 1st August 2009 at 12:00.
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Old 2nd August 2009, 14:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
You would not be able to use the column shift gearbox with any modern mpfi engine for a simple reason that the Fiat gearbox is designed to handle only 7 kilogram meter (kgm) torque while almost all the new engines produce more than that. This was pointed out to me by Encyclopedia Behram Dhabhar 2009 Edition within an instant.

If you are ready to take the hassle, why dont you use a 118ne engine (chassis alteration would be imperative ) on a s1 car. For the powersteering issue, a Fiat car with nylon tyres and correct camber and caster is no less than a power steering.

What say ?

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
Dear Adheesh,

Point well noted. I know the fiat gearbox is not designed for greater level of torque, thats the reason I said in the first instance which gearbox can be had that can have linkages for columnshifter.
Moreover, if you are talking about the Encyclopedia its the 2009 Testament
,not following it I have changed my coil springs thrice.
I know an S1 set up with ne engine is a possiblity, but thought of exploring more.
As I have told you before, IMHO the column shift is an essence of cars like Premier Padmini and Ambassador.
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Old 21st September 2009, 21:25   #10
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What are booster for brakes? How much do they cost to have it on a Padmini? How much would the disc brakes cost? Are we talking about buying these from the market or from scrap?
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Old 21st September 2009, 23:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
What are booster for brakes? How much do they cost to have it on a Padmini? How much would the disc brakes cost? Are we talking about buying these from the market or from scrap?
Please DO NOT do any modifications to your cars brake system. The original Padmini brakes with new liners, master brake cylinder and wheel cylinders should perform beautifully.
However I am proving some information just for ones knowledge
1. An later model Ambassador vacuum brake booster (which is essentially a vacuum type master brake cylinder for reduced brake pedal effort) can be (but shouldn't be) fitted on a Padmini. The braking distance remains the same only the pedal effort decreases. It used to cost about 1500-2000 Rs new, two years ago)

2. 118 NE disc brake assembly can be (again, shouldn't be ) fitted in the front wheels. No idea about the costs, however should be around Rs500 for a set in the scrap( with calipers & discs)

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

Last edited by adheesh : 21st September 2009 at 23:16.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 03:39   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
Please DO NOT do any modifications to your cars brake system. The original Padmini brakes with new liners, master brake cylinder and wheel cylinders should perform beautifully.
However I am proving some information just for ones knowledge
1. An later model Ambassador vacuum brake booster (which is essentially a vacuum type master brake cylinder for reduced brake pedal effort) can be (but shouldn't be) fitted on a Padmini. The braking distance remains the same only the pedal effort decreases. It used to cost about 1500-2000 Rs new, two years ago)

2. 118 NE disc brake assembly can be (again, shouldn't be ) fitted in the front wheels. No idea about the costs, however should be around Rs500 for a set in the scrap( with calipers & discs)

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
Thanks fro the info. I will remain stock in this department. I will never want to take any chances, atleast not with the brakes. Mine are just hard and not soo effective as of now (but does its job, just that I drive a bit fast). Just curious to know....how much do the new liners, master brake cylinder and wheel cylinders cost? What ever is available in the market, are the genuine accessories?
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Old 22nd September 2009, 11:32   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Thanks fro the info. I will remain stock in this department. I will never want to take any chances, atleast not with the brakes. Mine are just hard and not soo effective as of now (but does its job, just that I drive a bit fast). Just curious to know....how much do the new liners, master brake cylinder and wheel cylinders cost? What ever is available in the market, are the genuine accessories?
Approximate prices of all the brake parts are as follows

1. Liners : Rs600-800 for all four (in exchange with your old ones which fetch some 200 bucks)
2.Wheel Cylinders (TVS Girling): Rs250-300 each (For some odd reason, the front and the rear wheel cylinders are priced differently)
3. Master Brake Cylinder(TVS Girling) : Single Piston Rs.1200 (For cars before 89-90's) Double Piston Rs.2200-2500
4. Brake Oil Dot 3 : Rs.206/liter (715ml is required + bleeding)

Lets please continue this discussion in the Fiat1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

Last edited by adheesh : 22nd September 2009 at 11:34.
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Old 22nd September 2009, 15:21   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
Approximate prices of all the brake parts are as follows

1. Liners : Rs600-800 for all four (in exchange with your old ones which fetch some 200 bucks)
2.Wheel Cylinders (TVS Girling): Rs250-300 each (For some odd reason, the front and the rear wheel cylinders are priced differently)
3. Master Brake Cylinder(TVS Girling) : Single Piston Rs.1200 (For cars before 89-90's) Double Piston Rs.2200-2500
4. Brake Oil Dot 3 : Rs.206/liter (715ml is required + bleeding)

Lets please continue this discussion in the Fiat1100/Premier Padmini Technical Information thread.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

thanks for the info.....yeah, lets do this on the Padmini Technical Information thread
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Old 22nd September 2009, 15:30   #15
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The front and rear brake cylinders are different sizes to help with the front/rear brake bias (not interchangeable) hence the price difference.
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