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Old 30th May 2010, 16:01   #61
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Originally Posted by samsag12 View Post
Its feels great to see the progress on this car and a delight to view the original fiat rubber coupling still intact. Does this car have 2 battery brackets and is the silencer original to this car?
The universal joint coupling is not original, its local. Also this type of silencer is commonly found on cars from Pune (maybe someone in the south also fabricates a similar design). Its neither cylindrical nor fish type. The same design silencer was there on my white car too and performed very well.

Manish, the universal joint coupling has 6 nut bolts in total. Out of these 3 bolts are longer than the others. These long bolts should go through the axle yoke the one seen in photograph no.10. This is the correct way. Also, the top plate of the gearbox (seen in the last photograph) should be in chassis red primer. Just for your reference. ..

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Old 30th May 2010, 18:52   #62
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Nice progress Manish! The metal on the outside of the car looks excellent.

When the original fitment is removed, secure them safely. Chances of misplacement in garages are little common. When will the paint removal process expected to complete. Will try and visit the car tommorow.
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Old 30th May 2010, 19:03   #63
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Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
Manish, the universal joint coupling has 6 nut bolts in total. Out of these 3 bolts are longer than the others. These long bolts should go through the axle yoke the one seen in photograph no.10. This is the correct way. Also, the top plate of the gearbox (seen in the last photograph) should be in chassis red primer. Just for your reference. ..

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
Adheesh,

Thanks for the info, I tried calling you today but the mobile was switched off :O{. Yes the coupling is not original. I need to check on the clutch which I suspect to be slipping.

Now I have lot to ask you. I spoke to Behram Sir too.

1. Gear box - my mechanic says we will open, if required change the parts other wise clean and assemble, against the preachings of Fiat Guru.

2. Same for the engine, I was to do a compression check, but now it will be next weekend. Behram sir has advised me not to open the engine unnecessarily.

Since I do not have the reusability guide for major mechanical components and thus the delimma. Ok before doing any thing I will consult you.

Now for the update, all the trims, grill and small ellusive parts have been taken out. All trims of the seat including the magazine net has also been taken out.

Sad news is that the front windshield is cracked (non original) and is discarded.

Good news is that All the other glass are original Securit made in Italy. All the bolts for the window winding mechanism are also Fiat original (Fiat written over them).

Some pictures

MPR 4142, 1959 Fiat 103D Select Restoration.-dsc06515.jpg

MPR 4142, 1959 Fiat 103D Select Restoration.-dsc06520.jpg

MPR 4142, 1959 Fiat 103D Select Restoration.-dsc06527.jpg
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Old 30th May 2010, 19:52   #64
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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
Adheesh,

Thanks for the info, I tried calling you today but the mobile was switched off :O{. Yes the coupling is not original. I need to check on the clutch which I suspect to be slipping.

Now I have lot to ask you. I spoke to Behram Sir too.

1. Gear box - my mechanic says we will open, if required change the parts other wise clean and assemble, against the preachings of Fiat Guru.

2. Same for the engine, I was to do a compression check, but now it will be next weekend. Behram sir has advised me not to open the engine unnecessarily.

Since I do not have the reusability guide for major mechanical components and thus the delimma. Ok before doing any thing I will consult you.

Now for the update, all the trims, grill and small ellusive parts have been taken out. All trims of the seat including the magazine net has also been taken out.

Sad news is that the front windshield is cracked (non original) and is discarded.

Good news is that All the other glass are original Securit made in Italy. All the bolts for the window winding mechanism are also Fiat original (Fiat written over them).

Some pictures

Attachment 358240

Attachment 358241

Attachment 358242
Even I would advise you not to open up the gearbox unless it is inevitable. The gearbox once opened up magically transforms into a Pandoras box. Try engaging all the gears in stationary. Move the shaft and check for any restriction or bearing noise. Slight bearing griding noise is acceptable (for the age of the car). Use SAE90EP oil only without any additives like Nulon,etc irrespective of what the mechanic/shopkeeper tell you. These cars came with a different gearbox which was ultra smooth. Unlike Padmini gear box, the gearlever operates like a hot knife through butter. Also the lever when engaged in the reverse gear goes all the way down unlike in Padminis. These are very rare to find in the scrap market. If you do find one, it would always be good to keep one spare. Please do remember to use new VIR make coupling, a new gear rubber mount and new gear lever bushing kit.

Regarding the clutch, the clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing and fork should be new. Only then would the clutch operate 'exactly as it should'. Use only MSL (Mahindra Sona Ltd) make clutch and pressure plate. Nothing else works correctly. Superselect (Ravi) and President (Rony) are a testimony to the MSL clutch in my car. Also check the flywheel surface. The flywheel if removed from the engine would have to be fitted back using the bolt fitting torque sequence as per the company specification using a torque wrench.

Regarding the engine, I would have a different opinion. The fun and the beauty of a fully restored car also lies partially in a crisp engine. If major parts are available of genuine brands, I would personally go ahead with an engine rebuild. Try to collect parts like Premier S62 head ( a used but good one would also do), Victor/Banco cylinder head gasket, EVL valves, original piston, rings,bearings, gudgeon pins, etc, etc. The S62 head is OE for Padminis with 7.8 compression ratio (unlike 7.3 which your car should have), but common, the engine would run better and nobody would understand unless told. The turner should be the best in the town. If possible, come to Mumbai with the engine. I can assure you, Mumbai has the best of turners for Fiats.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
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Old 31st May 2010, 08:27   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Nice progress Manish! The metal on the outside of the car looks excellent.

When the original fitment is removed, secure them safely. Chances of misplacement in garages are little common. When will the paint removal process expected to complete. Will try and visit the car tommorow.
Yes i have taken custody of all such parts. They have gone under my bed again . Here is a shot of rear window glass showing the Securit Logo (zoomed insert for easy readibility)

MPR 4142, 1959 Fiat 103D Select Restoration.-dsc06533.jpg
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Old 31st May 2010, 11:56   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adheesh View Post
Even I would advise you not to open up the gearbox unless it is inevitable. The gearbox once opened up magically transforms into a Pandoras box. Try engaging all the gears in stationary. Move the shaft and check for any restriction or bearing noise. Slight bearing griding noise is acceptable (for the age of the car). Use SAE90EP oil only without any additives like Nulon,etc irrespective of what the mechanic/shopkeeper tell you. These cars came with a different gearbox which was ultra smooth. Unlike Padmini gear box, the gearlever operates like a hot knife through butter. Also the lever when engaged in the reverse gear goes all the way down unlike in Padminis. These are very rare to find in the scrap market. If you do find one, it would always be good to keep one spare. Please do remember to use new VIR make coupling, a new gear rubber mount and new gear lever bushing kit.

Regarding the clutch, the clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing and fork should be new. Only then would the clutch operate 'exactly as it should'. Use only MSL (Mahindra Sona Ltd) make clutch and pressure plate. Nothing else works correctly. Superselect (Ravi) and President (Rony) are a testimony to the MSL clutch in my car. Also check the flywheel surface. The flywheel if removed from the engine would have to be fitted back using the bolt fitting torque sequence as per the company specification using a torque wrench.

Regarding the engine, I would have a different opinion. The fun and the beauty of a fully restored car also lies partially in a crisp engine. If major parts are available of genuine brands, I would personally go ahead with an engine rebuild. Try to collect parts like Premier S62 head ( a used but good one would also do), Victor/Banco cylinder head gasket, EVL valves, original piston, rings,bearings, gudgeon pins, etc, etc. The S62 head is OE for Padminis with 7.8 compression ratio (unlike 7.3 which your car should have), but common, the engine would run better and nobody would understand unless told. The turner should be the best in the town. If possible, come to Mumbai with the engine. I can assure you, Mumbai has the best of turners for Fiats.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar
1. Gear box Ė as per my hometown mechanic he has worked on the gearbox on this car (not sure of his words). The gearbox seems fine to me, with no noise but oil leaks letís arrest that, clean, polish and keep the box aside. I know of difference in the Fiat and PP gearbox. I will use new rubbers wherever required along with bushes. Is MSL clutch and pressure plate available readily? For the flywheel I will check trueness with a dial gauge (although if crank is at fault it will add to the TIR). For assembly I am in dire need of the shop manual.

2. For the Engine please let me know of the valve timing specifics and of the valve lash adjustments (cold engine). Least thing I would change is the head (only if there is too much valve recession) as AFAIK we do not get seat inserts on these engines. And for the engine this old and uncared I am sure the crank and cam will definitely have scoring (worse pitting or spalling). Lets remove and see them. What should be the acceptable range of Compression pressure on this engine?
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Old 31st May 2010, 12:48   #67
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Further to my post I think there is a relation between Compression ration to the Compression pressure of the engine (if every thing is standard)

And for the 7.3:1 compression ration the pressure should be in the range of 175 - 195 psi minus the atmospheric pressure. (or simply 160 - 180 on the gauge).
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Old 31st May 2010, 16:08   #68
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Manish, I would suggest you to do all the mechanicals with PL. Think over.
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Old 31st May 2010, 18:50   #69
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Manish: I had been to your garage today at 5.

Here is the update:
Almost all the paint removed.
Gearbox cleaned.
Interiors cleaned.

Here are some pics clicked by me.
Attached Thumbnails
MPR 4142, 1959 Fiat 103D Select Restoration.-dsc02447.jpg  

Attached Images
              
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Old 31st May 2010, 18:54   #70
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Originally Posted by FiatMyLife View Post
Manish, I would suggest you to do all the mechanicals with PL. Think over.
Lets take the best out of present set up. Please give me the pictures you took.

Everyone. I intend to reverse engineer the Plastic tray as it came on Early fiats (1954-60). After making a production drawing, I will give it to a mould guy to make a mould and the part. Overall excersise will cost me 2.5 to 3 k (it is the mould which will cost more, subsequent parts will be cheap). If any one interested please let me, it will bring down the cost.

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Old 31st May 2010, 18:59   #71
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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
1. Gear box Ė as per my hometown mechanic he has worked on the gearbox on this car (not sure of his words). The gearbox seems fine to me, with no noise but oil leaks letís arrest that, clean, polish and keep the box aside. I know of difference in the Fiat and PP gearbox. I will use new rubbers wherever required along with bushes. Is MSL clutch and pressure plate available readily? For the flywheel I will check trueness with a dial gauge (although if crank is at fault it will add to the TIR). For assembly I am in dire need of the shop manual.

2. For the Engine please let me know of the valve timing specifics and of the valve lash adjustments (cold engine). Least thing I would change is the head (only if there is too much valve recession) as AFAIK we do not get seat inserts on these engines. And for the engine this old and uncared I am sure the crank and cam will definitely have scoring (worse pitting or spalling). Lets remove and see them. What should be the acceptable range of Compression pressure on this engine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
Further to my post I think there is a relation between Compression ration to the Compression pressure of the engine (if every thing is standard)

And for the 7.3:1 compression ration the pressure should be in the range of 175 - 195 psi minus the atmospheric pressure. (or simply 160 - 180 on the gauge).
Hi Manish,
I am currently travelling and hence unable to post large posts from my mobile phone. Will give every detail you asked for after I return back to Mumbai on the 9th.

Regards,
Adheesh
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Old 31st May 2010, 19:23   #72
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Originally Posted by FiatMyLife View Post
Manish: I had been to your garage today at 5.

Here is the update:
Almost all the paint removed.
Gearbox cleaned.
Interiors cleaned.

Here are some pics clicked by me.
Car really really looks in great shape. We missed seeing each other then. I too had been there to garage for few mins at 4PM

Last edited by funkykar : 31st May 2010 at 19:25.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:58   #73
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Mr Manish ,

Its really good to see the effort that is beiong put into this car. Now from what i have understood by going through the posts is that we are looking at a grounds up restoration. Now a few things i would like to point out and advice you about -

1).Opening the engine - The first thing is how much milage has this car clocked according to the odo meter ? Is there any smoke from the car? If not then there is not need to go for a compression check or to open the engine up.

2). Opening the Gearbox & differential - There is no need until there is some problem and same for the differential. You can flush both of them and that would do the job.

3). Powder coating - Now the first thing i want to ask you is do you have someone to do it and do you know the negatives of doing it ?

The body lines are very clean i must say and totally different than the pics shown before the paint was scraped.

Would be happy to help in whatever way i can.
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:03   #74
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[quote=IndrojitSircar;1920092]Mr Manish ,

Quote:
Its really good to see the effort that is beiong put into this car. Now from what i have understood by going through the posts is that we are looking at a grounds up restoration.
Thanks for the kind words

Quote:
Now a few things i would like to point out and advice you about -

1).Opening the engine - The first thing is how much milage has this car clocked according to the odo meter ? Is there any smoke from the car? If not then there is not need to go for a compression check or to open the engine up.
The condition is not known to me, only thing we had difficulty loading the car on the truck, might be clutch plate too. So to ascertain that we do a compression test, if it turns out to be healthy, we know not to open the engine.

Quote:
2). Opening the Gearbox & differential - There is no need until there is some problem and same for the differential. You can flush both of them and that would do the job.
Yes we will not open the gear Box, differential we will change the bearings and the seals.

Quote:
3). Powder coating - Now the first thing i want to ask you is do you have someone to do it and do you know the negatives of doing it ?
There are lot of powder coating service providers in and around Bangalore. Powder coating will give longevity to my components mainly chassis / running gear. Now please tell me the negatives of the same I am eager to learn.

Quote:
The body lines are very clean i must say and totally different than the pics shown before the paint was scraped.
Yes that’s what everyone is telling, we will only tap the unevenness out. The floor is full gone, we will replace that with fresh panels.

Quote:
Would be happy to help in whatever way i can.
Would like to know more on sand blasting and of any service providers in Bangalore for my car.
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:09   #75
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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
I will give it to a mould guy to make a mould and the part. Overall excersise will cost me 2.5 to 3 k (it is the mould which will cost more, subsequent parts will be cheap). If any one interested please let me, it will bring down the cost.

Attachment 359051
Well you know you can count me in for such experiments
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