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Old 3rd June 2010, 17:13   #226
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OK, got it! But as MCB says, they use the wire-like things that are not really soldering wire but they melt down to act as joining forces. Is this what you guys wanted me to clarify? If not, then have to wait until tomorrow, as they werent at the garage today when I went! So couldnt ask them.
Mr. Shyam the wire like thing is not solder at all. Solder which is used for welding is in a chunk and they hold it with a pair of pliers and then use the gas welding set to melt it and use it join the panels. The wire like thing is something altogether.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 17:35   #227
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is it the same solder that is used in electronics?? AFAIK solder is an alloy of tin and lead which melts around 200 degree celsius and gas welding equipment is capable of producing temperatures above 3000 degree celsius(i just checked it wasnt 1000). Now you only tell me why would someone use 3000degree c to melt somthing that melts at 200.


edit: i just checked, there is something known as hard solder(not normal solder) which is used for brazing and is an alloy of copper and zinc. it has a much higher melting point. and thats what i think u were referring to i guess. sorry for the confusion.

Ohh and i did use normal solder to fix my radiator
The solder used by the welders (it is mainly used in radiator repair, fuel tank repair and like) is totally different from the electrical solder. The process is referred to as brazing. They will heat the solder in coke stove (sigdi as they call in hindi).
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Old 3rd June 2010, 17:46   #228
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Mr. Shyam the wire like thing is not solder at all. Solder which is used for welding is in a chunk and they hold it with a pair of pliers and then use the gas welding set to melt it and use it join the panels. The wire like thing is something altogether.
The wire like thing is brass, and that is what I was pointing it to. But then the welding dosen't seems to look like brass has been used. It does not shows any trace of yellow color of brass.

I to share the curiosity of Indrojit .
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Old 3rd June 2010, 21:28   #229
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The wire like thing is brass, and that is what I was pointing it to. But then the welding dosen't seems to look like brass has been used. It does not shows any trace of yellow color of brass.

I to share the curiosity of Indrojit .

Well sometimes the yellow colour can't be seen but you can make out by the finish. Solder will be more spread out like we can see in this but in brass its a neater job and by looking at it you can make out.

Mr.Shyam what you need to find out is why is your welder using solder ?
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Old 3rd June 2010, 22:04   #230
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Mr.Shyam what you need to find out is why is your welder using solder ?
Right-o chief! Thanks for finally clarifying the QUESTION! Now I can go to clarify the ANSWER tomorrow!
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:04   #231
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Mr. Shyam,

I have been a silent reader of this thread right from the start.

Let me know if you need any help from me and as you already know, i reside very close to the workshop.

I second manishalive's comments.( But then the welding dosen't seems to look like brass has been used. It does not shows any trace of yellow color of brass)

The perioperative chemical used here is Sulfuric acid, the area is first cleaned by water and then before & after soldering, Sulfuric acid is applied.

Last edited by SILVERWOOD : 4th June 2010 at 10:19. Reason: adding more commnets
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Old 4th June 2010, 10:18   #232
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Mr. Shyam,

I have been a silent reader of this thread right from the start.

Let me know if you need any help from me and as you already know, i reside very close to the workshop.
Sure thing, chief! Thanks very much, so generous of you!

Incidentally, Indrojit and I had a chat last night about the soldering/welding issue he pointed out here. He suggested using brass wires rather than the alloy(?) ones they are using for the joining of the metal, albeit the latter is more commonly used in welds.

But he also mentioned that it has to be done in a delicate way, else it'll turn out all the more messy. Besides, this would also need removing the currently welded panels and fitting of newer ones!
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Old 4th June 2010, 12:05   #233
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Does that mean he will have to make new floorpans and you can make a video of him making them?
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Old 4th June 2010, 14:43   #234
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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Sure thing, chief! Thanks very much, so generous of you!

Incidentally, Indrojit and I had a chat last night about the soldering/welding issue he pointed out here. He suggested using brass wires rather than the alloy(?) ones they are using for the joining of the metal, albeit the latter is more commonly used in welds.

But he also mentioned that it has to be done in a delicate way, else it'll turn out all the more messy. Besides, this would also need removing the currently welded panels and fitting of newer ones!
Floor panel welding has to done using brass wires, this gives the floor panel joints the strength it requires.

Alloy wires can be used on the body surface where there are no stress points.

Its been too long since some progress is happening on the car, considering the pace at which it started. Any issues Shyam?
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Old 4th June 2010, 15:20   #235
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I thought you should use the same material for welding as the sheet metal itself, is that not the best option? I intend to invest in welding equipment very very soon, so i need to know as much as i can ,about it.
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Old 4th June 2010, 18:54   #236
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Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
I second manishalive's comments.( But then the welding dosen't seems to look like brass has been used. It does not shows any trace of yellow color of brass)

The perioperative chemical used here is Sulfuric acid, the area is first cleaned by water and then before & after soldering, Sulfuric acid is applied.
I doubt if its sulphuric acid. That cant be used with metals in any case!

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Floor panel welding has to done using brass wires, this gives the floor panel joints the strength it requires.

Alloy wires can be used on the body surface where there are no stress points.

Its been too long since some progress is happening on the car, considering the pace at which it started. Any issues Shyam?
No issues, AFAIK! Except maybe for some vitamin M deficiency, which was nourished today!

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Originally Posted by mycarhasablower View Post
I thought you should use the same material for welding as the sheet metal itself, is that not the best option?
I finally spoke to the tinker today, to clarify the whole thing. He said that it is not possible to use brass in the first place, as it tends to spread all over on heating (Indrojit had also mentioned that for this reason, one needs to handle it very carefully and delicately) It is I suppose, to be used in cases where brass panels are to be welded (I have heard of cars with brass flooring done to prevent rust)
I had even jai check with his tinker who said that even in Madras this method od welding is commonly used. In fact I must say that I have so far never come across any car with brass electrodes used for welding, even on the floors! Even damasthebiker had got his herald done the same way as this car:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1825992-post46.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1831257-post55.html

I didnt see this being pointed out as wrong in his case. And it is the most common method used. So there should be no issues with it.

Anyways, PAVAN- this is especially for you!
The mucky rear spring shown earlier was thoroughly washed in kerosene and water today and is ready to be given for resetting if need be (albeit not much just maybe an inch. max) and new 'eye' bushes to be fitted.

Also meanwhile, had a go at stripping the top panel over the dashboard the other day- and glad I did! The rail is almost extinct, having been nearly fully eaten away by the corrosion! But shouldnt be too difficult to fabricate.

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6257.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6259.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6261.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6264.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6232.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6233.jpg

Resurrection of (a) Stanher by Stanher!-img_6234.jpg

Last edited by Stanher : 4th June 2010 at 18:56.
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Old 4th June 2010, 19:34   #237
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I finally spoke to the tinker today, to clarify the whole thing. He said that it is not possible to use brass in the first place, as it tends to spread all over on heating (Indrojit had also mentioned that for this reason, one needs to handle it very carefully and delicately) It is I suppose, to be used in cases where brass panels are to be welded (I have heard of cars with brass flooring done to prevent rust)

Sir what about using metal wire which is readily available ? He can use metal wire instead of solder since the floor board as of sheet metal. The other thing i wanted to ask is what is the sheet metal being used ? Is it galvanized metal sheets ? By the way what is the car that has got brass flooring ?

Quote:

I had even jai check with his tinker who said that even in Madras this method of welding is commonly used. In fact I must say that I have so far never come across any car with brass electrodes used for welding, even on the floors!
That is correct you wouldn't have because hardly many people know how to work with brass.
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Old 4th June 2010, 20:22   #238
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Mr. Shyam the wire like thing is not solder at all. Solder which is used for welding is in a chunk and they hold it with a pair of pliers and then use the gas welding set to melt it and use it join the panels. The wire like thing is something altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Sir what about using metal wire which is readily available ? He can use metal wire instead of solder since the floor board as of sheet metal. The other thing i wanted to ask is what is the sheet metal being used ? Is it galvanized metal sheets ? By the way what is the car that has got brass flooring ?
Now I'm a little confused, sorry! You'd mentioned in one of your earlier posts that the wire is not solder at all. Now you mention that he is using solder!

The sheet metal is guage metal only (forgot the exact thickness of this one, 18 guage was used for the chassis)
It is not galvanised. BTW, if it were, the metal would become heavier, so would be difficult to support in future with the welds, right?

I had seen a pic. of a fiat 1100 karl sent to me long ago, which was said to have brass flooring, although no pics. of the flooring. 'have also heard from the garage guys about one of their previous customers, a railway officer who moved here from Madras, who had a Pennant back then with such a floor treatment. It must have been really interesting to look at!
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Old 4th June 2010, 21:35   #239
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Mr. Shyam the wire like thing is not solder at all. Solder which is used for welding is in a chunk and they hold it with a pair of pliers and then use the gas welding set to melt it and use it join the panels. The wire like thing is something altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Sir what about using metal wire which is readily available ? He can use metal wire instead (inplace) of solder since the floor board as of sheet metal. The other thing i wanted to ask is what is the sheet metal being used ? Is it galvanized metal sheets ? By the way what is the car that has got brass flooring ?

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Now I'm a little confused, sorry! You'd mentioned in one of your earlier posts that the wire is not solder at all. Now you mention that he is using solder!
Yes i still stick by that. The wire is not solder. Solder comes in chunks which needs to be held with a pair of pliers. I have highlighted it in my posts and quoted them above. Read them again and you would get it. He is using solder but the wire in the picture is not solder.


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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post


BTW, if it were, the metal would become heavier, so would be difficult to support in future with the welds, right?
Didn't understand whatr you mean by this.

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post

I had seen a pic. of a fiat 1100 karl sent to me long ago, which was said to have brass flooring, although no pics. of the flooring. 'have also heard from the garage guys about one of their previous customers, a railway officer who moved here from Madras, who had a Pennant back then with such a floor treatment. It must have been really interesting to look at!
Ok i would have personally liked to see the brass flooring and how it was done. The other thing is could you ask the garage guys what is this treat that they are mentioning with the complete details of the procedure and the merits and de merits. .
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Old 4th June 2010, 22:28   #240
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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Yes i still stick by that. The wire is not solder. Solder comes in chunks which needs to be held with a pair of pliers. I have highlighted it in my posts and quoted them above. Read them again and you would get it. He is using solder but the wire in the picture is not solder.
OK ok......now I got you- you meant he is using the METHOD of SOLDERING but not the COMPONENT/SUBSTANCE called 'SOLDER'. Did I get ya now??

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Didn't understand whatr you mean by this.
I mean galvanised metal is said to be a little heavier than the ungalvanised one. So wouldnt the added weight eventually weaken the strength of the welds in places like say, the floorpans, which are supported/held in place by the welds?

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Ok i would have personally liked to see the brass flooring and how it was done. The other thing is could you ask the garage guys what is this treat that they are mentioning with the complete details of the procedure and the merits and de merits. .
Yes, even I would've liked to see it! And by treatment, I mean nothing but the flooring made in brass I was talking about, thats all!

Last edited by Stanher : 4th June 2010 at 22:30.
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