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Old 8th April 2011, 17:46   #241
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
That is about roughly 14 amps if what you say about the rating is correct.

The Diesel one came with a slightly higher rated since the starting load on diesel's are higher, so a bigger battery. Hence a higher rating of 20Amps.

The number provided by you is for a starter and not a dynamo. Please check and correct.

0.8 in the part number means- 0.8kw
12R30 - 12v Cw 9 Teeth pinion.
You maybe right, I'll check the manual tonight.
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Old 10th April 2011, 09:41   #242
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Hi, Amol and Indrojit,


The correct model number for my car's dynamo is LG/GEG 160/12 - 2500 R8.

Some great news!

I went for my weekly visit to the workshop yesterday and the engine was started for me. It was being run from the day before. The engine is now firing very smoothly, unlike the last time when she was started around 6 months back when she was running very laboriously. The piston rings seem to have set in now, and I was told that even turning the engine by hand is much freer than before. She had been run for an hour before I reached and then another half an hour when I arrived. The only issue still remaining is that after the engine becomes hot, the water in the radiator starts to overflow and when the engine is turned off, there is a volcanic type eruption! Everyone is betting on the radiator pies being badly jammed with dirt and mud though the only other possibility could be a defective head gasket. After this, I again ran the engine for another half hour before leaving.

The front suspension back plates and kingpins and steering knuckles have been put in place, now only the shock absorbers have to be bought and then the springs can also be put in.

Tomorrow, I pick up 4 litres of matt black MRF Metalcoat epoxy with 2 litres of epoxy thinner and another 2 cans of sealant, so that the final spraying and sealing of the upper and under floor and front and trunk sections can be completed. After which the suspension will go on. I also plan to buy a new reproduction carburetor and retire the original one.

Otherwise, the front apron tinkering was completed, all the outer body panel primered and coated with epoxy from the inside.

Also, wasn't too happy with the thinnish seam sealing, and after the excellent photo that Karl sent me of a Fiat in Italy with thick sealant, I suggested to Bumpu da that we should also do the same. This was done and another can of sealant was finished for the cabin, so now 2 more are required.

Things are now definitely moving ahead, and boy, I am relieved that the engine is now running good.

The speedo cluster is from the US from a scrap 219. I am going to be using only the fuel gauge and replace the oil pressure and already have bought a water pressure gauge, along with a replacement speedometer. The warning lights panel will also be used. Also will use the chrome frame, glasses and outer dials of this unit.

I am uploading a video to show the smooth running of the engine at high idle, and I also tested it by covering the exhaust manifold outlet with a thick rag, during which the sound was really hushed up, much like when it will be when the exhaust pipes and silencer muffler go on. It's going to be a pretty silent engine, for sure! The rag of course had a big burn hole through it!

Also notice in the pics, how advanced the plug points for the cluster is in these cars though theye were designed in the early 50s!

Oh and I have recently become a member of the Mercedes Benz Club of America, and yesterday received a club sticker for the windshield. This also means that I am entitled to a 15% dicount on any parts I buy from the Mercedes Classic Center in the US

Regards
Prithvi
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Last edited by mbz180 : 10th April 2011 at 09:45.
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Old 10th April 2011, 11:01   #243
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Soory guys, here'e the video.

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Old 22nd April 2011, 21:07   #244
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

A small update. After waiting for 2 weeks, I finally managed to get my hands on 4 litres of MRF Metal Coat Matt Black, which is superior to normal epoxy. Both are PU based, but apparently this metal coat is a higher grade. Along with it got the hardener and 2 litres of thinner.

The delay was because MRF Specialty Coatings was changing its name to MRF Corporation, and they had to apply for a new VAT and TIN number, which came in yesterday. So today, I picked up the material in the afternoon, and in the evening handed it over to Rahul Sircar, along with 2 cannisters more of seam sealant and 2 old front wheel cylinders from which the nipples are required for the new cylinders.

Due to my growing impatience with the delay of the MRF made product, my search landed me to the Louis Berger corporate office, from where I was directed to their main outlet, and though they had epoxy black in satin finish, I was told that they only come in 20 litre drums! That was very disappointing. But hey, that's history now and am very relieved.

Next week, the final sealing will be done and then the undercarriage and floor boards, trunk floor and exposed parts of the chassis will be painted, which wil clear the way for suspension reassembly, so a visit next Saturday is definite.


Best Regards
Prithvi
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Old 25th April 2011, 12:21   #245
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Prithvi,I have been following your resto and have some suggestions when bench running recently overhauled engines.Always have a fan blowing air on the radiator and also a water hose connected to the mouth of the radiator to ensure cool water supply in constant circulation.This will prevent engines running hotter than normal .Also its a good idea to connect a temp guage to see at what temp she begins to throw water.In your case the primary suspect would be the head gasket.Was your radiator re cored? sometimes old cores are either clogged or due to repairs pipes soldered/welded to stop leaks resulting in improper exchange of heat.I hope all the water passages were thoroughly cleaned before engine assembly?Overheating of rebuilt engines is a nightmare but going one step at a time will always solve the problem.All the best.
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Old 26th April 2011, 10:35   #246
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Prithvi,I have been following your resto and have some suggestions when bench running recently overhauled engines.Always have a fan blowing air on the radiator and also a water hose connected to the mouth of the radiator to ensure cool water supply in constant circulation.
Hello Sir,

Thank you first of all for honouring my car's restoration with your interest. Secondly, thank you for your very valuable advise. I do agree that a fan blowing air from the front of the radiator should be used when running a new engine. In fact, the very same week I visited the workshop for the last time, I had read DKG's Chevy Master Phaeton resto in detail, and I had noted that he used a fan as well as constant water circulation. When I went to see my car, mid way I did put a powerful fan on but then it was time to wrap up.

Quote:
This will prevent engines running hotter than normal .Also its a good idea to connect a temp guage to see at what temp she begins to throw water.
That is a good idea, I will definitely connect the water temp gauge to see the boiling point.

Quote:
In your case the primary suspect would be the head gasket.Was your radiator re cored? sometimes old cores are either clogged or due to repairs pipes soldered/welded to stop leaks resulting in improper exchange of heat.
I too think that the head gasket is suspect. I say this because, as far as I can remember, there was a minor (but something which may have a larger effect) difference in the cutout of the valve chambers between the old gasket and the new one. The radiator was not re-cored. It is actually from an early sidevalve 180 which I cannibalized for parts. I thought there would be a difference in water capacity between my larger engine and the sidevalve, but there is none.

Quote:
I hope all the water passages were thoroughly cleaned before engine assembly?Overheating of rebuilt engines is a nightmare but going one step at a time will always solve the problem.All the best.
Yes Sir, the water passages were cleaned very thoroughly, I saw to this myself. There was absolutely no deposits remaining in the passages.

I thank you again for your valuable advise, and will definitely take the needful steps, one at a time and get to the cause of the problem.


Best Regards
Prithvi
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Old 26th April 2011, 19:32   #247
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

I have seen a very peculiar engine cooling method adopted by my mechanic.

1) Engine always kept in a cool place
2) One electric fan running in front of the radiator for constant supply of air.
3) Every 30 mins, he flushes the radiator water and pours in Fresh water.
4) He totally burns 10 litres of fuel before running the car.

But for Air Cooled engines he adopts a different method.
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Old 26th April 2011, 21:40   #248
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
I have seen a very peculiar engine cooling method adopted by my mechanic.

1) Engine always kept in a cool place
2) One electric fan running in front of the radiator for constant supply of air.
3) Every 30 mins, he flushes the radiator water and pours in Fresh water.
4) He totally burns 10 litres of fuel before running the car.

But for Air Cooled engines he adopts a different method.
Hi Pavan,

Thanks for your inputs. The engine is kept at a cool place away from the sun. No fan running in front though, and no flushing of the water and then fresh water being poured in. However, way more than 10 litres have been burnt.

In fact, after Bulldogji's suggestions, I spoke with the restorer (about the points mentioned in Bulldogji's post), but he has a different opinion based on his experience and knowhow. He argues that if fresh cool water is constantly circulated in the engine and drained out, that too with a fan in front, the engine will never reach operating temperature, and therefore, how can one equate this to normal running of the engine when it is in the car and driven around under load? That way, one will never have any overheating problems with the engine out of the car, but once in the car, with no fresh water constantly circulating, and with an actual undiagnosed overheating problem, things can get pretty nasty.

I have to admit I tend to agree somewhat with Mr. Sircar's logic, at the risk of being in the minority as far as this topic is concerned.

On the other hand, the 1961 220S engine has been rebuilt and completed last week, and we have been test running it since last Friday. Ironically, my own mechanic who rebuilt both the 180a engine and this 220S engine, believes that fresh water being circulated for the first 5 days of the engine running is a good thing, as this helps the new components loosening up, and operating with less friction then would be possible with hotter components. This also sounds logical!

So, can I then take the best from each approach for test running an engine? Fan in front, but fresh water not constantly being circulated, but replaced maybe every half hour? This is exactly what you have suggested Pavan, so your spot on as far as my reasoning goes

By the way, the 220S engine is anyway running at normal temperature and is not throwing out any water. It's like it's supposed to be; thank God.


Best Regards
Prithvi
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Old 26th April 2011, 23:20   #249
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
Hi Pavan,

Thanks for your inputs. The engine is kept at a cool place away from the sun. No fan running in front though, and no flushing of the water and then fresh water being poured in. However, way more than 10 litres have been burnt.

In fact, after Bulldogji's suggestions, I spoke with the restorer (about the points mentioned in Bulldogji's post), but he has a different opinion based on his experience and knowhow. He argues that if fresh cool water is constantly circulated in the engine and drained out, that too with a fan in front, the engine will never reach operating temperature, and therefore, how can one equate this to normal running of the engine when it is in the car and driven around under load? That way, one will never have any overheating problems with the engine out of the car, but once in the car, with no fresh water constantly circulating, and with an actual undiagnosed overheating problem, things can get pretty nasty.

I have to admit I tend to agree somewhat with Mr. Sircar's logic, at the risk of being in the minority as far as this topic is concerned.

On the other hand, the 1961 220S engine has been rebuilt and completed last week, and we have been test running it since last Friday. Ironically, my own mechanic who rebuilt both the 180a engine and this 220S engine, believes that fresh water being circulated for the first 5 days of the engine running is a good thing, as this helps the new components loosening up, and operating with less friction then would be possible with hotter components. This also sounds logical!

So, can I then take the best from each approach for test running an engine? Fan in front, but fresh water not constantly being circulated, but replaced maybe every half hour? This is exactly what you have suggested Pavan, so your spot on as far as my reasoning goes

By the way, the 220S engine is anyway running at normal temperature and is not throwing out any water. It's like it's supposed to be; thank God.


Best Regards
Prithvi

Good for you and your car

Looks like things are falling in place after the engine re-build.

You know, off-late i too have started to give tooo much importance to the Mechanicals, no wonder, inspite of having completed the bodywork on the Topolino, i am still waiting for the mechanic to finish the Front Right brake and the engine.

Well, i refute to what your mechanic says about engine cooling, each of them have their own way, so i believe its best left to them.

Waiting for further updates.
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Old 27th April 2011, 15:01   #250
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Dear Prithvi,I am sure the workshop restoring your engine has mechanics qualified to do their job so its best not to intefere and wait till they give you a perfectly running engine.Each one has his own methods.
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Old 27th April 2011, 15:05   #251
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Dear Prithvi,I am sure the workshop restoring your engine has mechanics qualified to do their job so its best not to intefere and wait till they give you a perfectly running engine.Each one has his own methods.
The engine was rebuilt by Prithvi's Mechanic before the car was given for restoration. So the Running in is being done by another set of mechanics. The problems should get solved anyway.
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Old 5th May 2011, 22:31   #252
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Things are pretty quiet on the restoration of the car, what with all the elections here in Bengal.

However, I have started to buy the final list of parts, mainly cosmetic and smaller rubber parts, and the first few parts arrived over last week and this week, some from after market vendors in Germany, the rest from MB USA.

I have broken up the purchase of the rather comprehensive list month wise, so that the strain on my wallet is not too much.

Though the after market parts quality is good, the quality of the MB sourced items is too good. Whether it is the chrome, or the detailing or the quality of the rubber, it is streaks ahead of other non MB vendors. But then so are the prices , so I have had to judiciously decide what will come from where.

The critical rubber parts and the most visible cosmetics will all be from MB, the rest from much cheaper non MB vendors.

Also, some of the stuff, like the license plate lamp seals pictured, are not made by MB anymore, so I have to really scout the web.

Here are the pics of the parts that have arrived so far.

Tail lamp seals from non MB vendor (Niemoller Germany)
My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-tail.jpg

Assorted Parts, some MB. Clockwise: Rubber pad for base of tire jack, fuel filler neck seal, license plate lamp seals, non-period Hella Flasher (have to get another one), fuel door air vent, bonnet rubber stops
My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-misc1.jpg

Trunk handle, from MB with flawless chrome
My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-trunk1.jpg

My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-trunk2.jpg

Nicely detailed grill emblem from MB
My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-star1.jpg

My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-star2.jpg


Best Regards
Prithvi
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Old 6th May 2011, 19:07   #253
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Prithvi,
Really nice to see the car shaping up. I am not an expert on automobiles to comment and give suggestion on this, but I am an MB fan and believe that you are doing a fantastic job. Not many people would have the passion, patiance and put in the money to do what you are doing.
But most of all, thank you for sharing this in TBHP. Really fantastic going indeed.
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Old 6th May 2011, 20:25   #254
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Prithvi, must say that I have seen the thread many a time but this is my first post here.I can appreciate your patience and the nice work being done to restore your 180a Ponton.The way the things are shaping up, the gracious car should be back on its 4 wheels soon.
I am sure it will grace the 2012 Statesman Rally.
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Old 6th May 2011, 21:16   #255
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

@SafeDrive-Thank you for you comments, the greatest joy for me is sharing the work in progress with everyone, just as I enjoy watching other member's beauties being done up.

@Anjan Sir, thank you for visiting my thread. Yes, it will definitely be ready for 2012.

Sometimes I really wonder whether the restoration is worth it. The endless research, the costs involved, the small sacrifices I have had to make over a fair period of time, and this has been an obsession not since April 2009 when the car was given to the current restorer, but since 2000, when the car was bought. With the money that I have spent doing up this car, I could have comfortably bought a new mid size sedan, and my friends keep reminding me about this

Since then, it has been my constant endeavor to bring back the car to showroom condition. I failed 3 times trying to do this, but not this time. This time it's different because of the expertise of the restorer. Yes, the restoration is slow, but I have seen the finished products that come out from Mr. Sircar's stable, and they all look like a million bucks.

But the effect of the end result is what matters, and that effect will be unbridled joy. I would like to use 3 quotes from the great Sir Henry Royce:

"Strive for perfection in everything you do. Take the best that exists and make it better. When it does not exist, design it."

"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."

"The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."

On a lighter note, I have promised to take the original owner for a drive once the car is ready and he's promised lunch at the club if he's satisfied with the car!

Best Regards
Prithvi
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