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Old 10th April 2013, 17:35   #331
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Awesome (Owsuuum) Prithvi,
Is the gear knob, a bakelite product?
And those tail lamps again look awesome. What about the lenses?
Are the rubber parts really difficult to source??
and last but not least;
If I ever caught the PONTON bug, I'll squarely blame it on YOU.

Raab rakha.
Thanks Sonu. I think the gear knob is a resin based material, not bakelite. I bought this new piece because the original has tiny hairline cracks around the hole of the knob which fits onto the gear stick. Also, earlier cars had a screw-on knob with a threaded gear stick but in later models like my car, there was no threading-the gear knob is simply pressure fitted.

The tail lamps have 3 components. The first is the base plate (pictured) which fits onto the body. Then the reflector snaps on to the clips that you see on the base plate. And lastly, the actual lenses with chrome frames screw on, to complete the unit. I have new lenses, need to buy the reflectors ($$$) and I'm going to use the original chrome frames. But the tricky part will be gluing on the lenses onto the chrome frame in a neat manner.

Rubber parts aren't difficult to source from Germany or the US. You'd be surprised at the availability of new and repro parts available from independent sources and Mercedes; it's just that parts are expensive. I know I could have bought some generically sized grommets locally but I thought it'd be nice to have car specific pieces.

Trust me my friend, the Ponton bug is a good one to catch, keeps you very occupied

And I followed Brownie's restoration very closely, she's a stunner

Prithvi
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Old 23rd October 2013, 13:15   #332
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Can we have an UPDATE ?
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Old 24th October 2013, 13:05   #333
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Can we have an UPDATE ?
I would have gladly given an update from where I left of, if only I had anything substantial to update

Some more parts have been coming in from abroad steadily of which I'll post pics over the weekend.

The car was missing a 3 piece 'false firewall' in the engine bay. I got these sometime back and it is now on the car. The radiator is being re-cored currently and I'm working out the correct finishes with the restorer for different components in the engine bay before the engine goes in.

I've been more busy than usual with work and too many things happening at the same time so things are still slow.
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Old 24th October 2013, 14:05   #334
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

So, did the conversion to the Webasto roof take place? And when is the paint job taking place? Cannot wait to see the Ponton in a shining coat of DB-40 G.
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Old 26th October 2013, 10:51   #335
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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So, did the conversion to the Webasto roof take place? And when is the paint job taking place? Cannot wait to see the Ponton in a shining coat of DB-40 G.
The hardest part of the Webasto conversion took place a while back; ie. the opening on my car was made perfectly and the roof from the donor car with all the hardware was grafted in smoothly. What remains to be done is to get the hardware for the sliding top ship-shape and making the inner and outer headliners to complete it but this will happen after paint. Pics of the grafted in top are shown in previous pages.

The monsoons are in full flow in Kolkata as of now and it's supposed to be like this till mid-November, so no paint until the rain stops. Plus, it's the painting and detailing of the engine bay we're completing first.

I picked up some odd parts from a Ponton club member in the US from a scrap car including the 'false firewall' which has now been temporarily fitted to my car. I'm attaching some pics of the 3 piece firewall, two Bosch horns and a pair of wiper arms. I've also got new, OEM, MB grommets and the fusebox cover shown on the firewall panels.

The pics were taken in the US straight out of the scrap car so all the parts are rough. For a long time I was hunting for a reasonably priced pair of these horns since the 2 do not have the same tone and are model specific to Ponton Mercs. One is a low tone and the other a higher tone and they work together giving a loud, distinct " bleep ". For this reason, if you come across multiple Pontons with the correct horns like these, you'll nearly always hear the same tone from each car!
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Old 26th October 2013, 11:43   #336
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Love the attention and the degree of precision of the restoration your 180 is going through.

These Pontons had a charm of their own. I specially liked that toolbox of your Ponton.

I wonder when a similar thread will be up for my Heckflosse aka Fintail? Possibly some 10-15 years later. I sincerely hope that atleast 1 W111 should await me in Bombay.

If so much effort and parts are required for restoration of a basic and well cared for 180, I wonder how much the cost for restoring a W111 Heckflosse? Possibly very high!

P.S: I DO NOT own any Heckflosse as of now. Definitely aspire to do so!
The car nearest to a Classic in our family is my Granddads 1972 Fiat 1100D!
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Old 26th October 2013, 13:26   #337
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

10-15 years later? That's some long-term planning!

Fintail, when my dad picked up the 180, it was a really rusty car with a broken engine, ie. the overhead camshaft was in two pieces inside the engine. The car was very well cared for until 10 years before my dad bought it from the first owner. The car was left in an open field for these 10 years where things deteriorated badly. The field was also notorious for water-logging in the monsoons which the poor car went through. Coincidentally, the restorer of the car actually went to have a look at it before my dad picked it up to see whether there was any point in saving the car and he concluded that there wasn't.

As far as Pontons are concerned, a lot of parts are shared between the 180 and 6 cylinder 220a, 219 and 220S, both mechanically and cosmetically. The 190 has only a few parts which are different. For that matter, even the 190SL and the 220S Cabriolets and Coupes share a lot of common parts with the sedans. Therefore, despite the 180 being the bottom feeder in the Ponton hierarchy, the price of parts for the high-end and low-end cars have little variation.

I have a friend's W111 in my place awaiting restoration and it was a well cared for car. You would be a little happy to know that apart from a few parts like the head lamps, parts are actually cheaper compared to prices for Pontons due to better availability of spares being later model cars.
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Old 28th October 2013, 21:32   #338
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

I recently picked up a sparingly used carburetor for my car as a spare. Couldn't resist it since it's rare to find a good carb complete with all jets and the seller only charged the cost of shipping it to me

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Another item was this Bosch brimmed lens fog lamp. My car had a mismatched pair of fogs-one was a Hella and another, a Bosch. For a long time I was looking for a single fog to match the Bosch on my car. They are nearly always up for auction as a pair so I got lucky to finally find an identical single piece and make a pair. Interestingly, identical fog lamps were used by Mercedes from the 1930's and ending with the Pontons and Adenauers in the early '60s.

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Old 28th October 2013, 21:39   #339
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
I recently picked up a sparingly used carburetor for my car as a spare. Couldn't resist it since it's rare to find a good carb complete with all jets and the seller only charged the cost of shipping it to me

Attachment 1159248

Another item was this Bosch brimmed lens fog lamp. My car had a mismatched pair of fogs-one was a Hella and another, a Bosch. For a long time I was looking for a single fog to match the Bosch on my car. They are nearly always up for auction as a pair so I got lucky to finally find an identical single piece and make a pair. Interestingly, identical fog lamps were used by Mercedes from the 1930's and ending with the Pontons and Adenauers in the early '60s.

Attachment 1159249

Attachment 1159250

Attachment 1159251

Lucky you! Specially about the Carburettor!

From where were the Fog lamps and more importantly, the Carbs imported?

Loved the brimmed fog lamps! However, in the last picture, the brim reads 'Bosch-Germany'. Should it not read 'West Germany' or 'Western Germany' , this being a component for an old Mercedes-Benz?


Cheers!

Fintail/Heckflosse!

Last edited by karlosdeville : 29th October 2013 at 10:01. Reason: Removing bold text
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Old 29th October 2013, 10:10   #340
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by FINTAIL View Post
[b]


From where were the Fog lamps and more importantly, the Carbs imported?
[b]

Loved the brimmed fog lamps! However, in the last picture, the brim reads 'Bosch-Germany'. Should it not read 'West Germany' or 'Western Germany' , this being a component for an old Mercedes-Benz?]
The carburetor was sent to me from Canada by a member of the Ponton club.
I won the fog lamp in an auction on E-Bay Germany. The seller was from Germany.

Bulk of the parts on post-War Mercs read "Made in Germany" or just "Germany". Only a handful of components are marked "Made in Western Germany". I have no idea why this was but both Hella and Bosch fog lamps always mention Made in Germany. Importe D'Allemagne means the same thing, in French!

On some Pontons which were exported as CKD's (completely knocked down kits, and yes they were doing it back then!) mostly to Australia and South Africa, the engine bay had a metal tag which read "Made in Western Germany".
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Old 29th October 2013, 10:23   #341
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
I recently picked up a sparingly used carburetor for my car as a spare. Couldn't resist it since it's rare to find a good carb complete with all jets and the seller only charged the cost of shipping it to me



Another item was this Bosch brimmed lens fog lamp. My car had a mismatched pair of fogs-one was a Hella and another, a Bosch. For a long time I was looking for a single fog to match the Bosch on my car. They are nearly always up for auction as a pair so I got lucky to finally find an identical single piece and make a pair. Interestingly, identical fog lamps were used by Mercedes from the 1930's and ending with the Pontons and Adenauers in the early '60s.
Its good to see that some key spares coming your way. They will certainly make your car stand out. Though i am in no way expert on these cars, i can see the efforts and time you are taking to restore this car. I really appreciate your patience, attention to minute details and originality. I hope that your car will be complete very soon and she will be a head turner.

Priyadarshan
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Old 29th October 2013, 14:08   #342
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
10-15 years later? That's some long-term planning!

Fintail, when my dad picked up the 180, it was a really rusty car with a broken engine, ie. the overhead camshaft was in two pieces inside the engine. The car was very well cared for until 10 years before my dad bought it from the first owner. The car was left in an open field for these 10 years where things deteriorated badly. The field was also notorious for water-logging in the monsoons which the poor car went through. Coincidentally, the restorer of the car actually went to have a look at it before my dad picked it up to see whether there was any point in saving the car and he concluded that there wasn't.

As far as Pontons are concerned, a lot of parts are shared between the 180 and 6 cylinder 220a, 219 and 220S, both mechanically and cosmetically. The 190 has only a few parts which are different. For that matter, even the 190SL and the 220S Cabriolets and Coupes share a lot of common parts with the sedans. Therefore, despite the 180 being the bottom feeder in the Ponton hierarchy, the price of parts for the high-end and low-end cars have little variation.

I have a friend's W111 in my place awaiting restoration and it was a well cared for car. You would be a little happy to know that apart from a few parts like the head lamps, parts are actually cheaper compared to prices for Pontons due to better availability of spares being later model cars.

First and foremost, let me appreciate your fathers determination to restore a car that even Calcuttas foremost restorers had given up as a basket case!

Secondly, how did you replace the over-head valve shaft? Did you have to get one made at the lathe? OR
Did you have to adapt it from another car/ Salvage it? (The chances are low. As few Pontons made it to India, I presume very few were scrapped. However, much to my happiness, many Fintails did come to the Indian shores!
Thirdly, let me request the pictures of the W111 Heckflosse. Most of my age group (i.e Teenagers of 14-15 years) have Ferrari 458s and F12s as their dream cars.

Me! My dream cars are W111 Fintails !

Cheers!

Fintail/Heckflosse!

Last edited by FINTAIL : 29th October 2013 at 14:13.
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Old 31st October 2013, 10:09   #343
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

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Secondly, how did you replace the over-head valve shaft? Did you have to get one made at the lathe? OR
Did you have to adapt it from another car/ Salvage it? (The chances are low. As few Pontons made it to India, I presume very few were scrapped. However, much to my happiness, many Fintails did come to the Indian shores!
Fintail, the car was bought in 2000 and 13 years back, if one was lucky and looked hard enough, you could get used or occasionally unused parts from Calcutta's scrap car bazaar (Mullick Bazaar) for classics. My mechanic is a pro in locating these parts and at the first shot he located an unused camshaft which was fitted to the engine. As it happened, a few years later we located another unused camshaft (!) which I've kept as a spare. A word of advise on replacement Merc engine parts - never try to adapt a part from another car. Unlike most American cars which are large capacity and low revving putting low stress on moving parts, Merc engines are higher compression and are designed to rev high and tolerances are therefore very tight.

Quote:
Thirdly, let me request the pictures of the W111 Heckflosse. Most of my age group (i.e Teenagers of 14-15 years) have Ferrari 458s and F12s as their dream cars. Me! My dream cars are W111 Fintails !
The only pictures of the W111 are up on this forum and can be found in this link. After the body work was completed, I had to stop work on the car due to other commitments. Work will resume sometime in the near future.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...-india-66.html (Vintage & Classic Mercedes Benz Cars in India)

And I've always been a die-hard classic car nut myself

Regards
mbz180

Last edited by mbz180 : 31st October 2013 at 10:33.
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Old 14th April 2014, 00:06   #344
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

Hello everyone,

Weíve recently been making steady progress on getting the car nearer to completion and as Iíd posted earlier, the idea has been to put the engine and drive train into the car and test it on the road after which weíll take the engine down one last time to finish detailing the engine bay.

The engine and drive train are now in the car but weíve got some work to do before we can actually test her. For one, the entire exhaust system from the exhaust manifold downwards has completely disintegrated (not that it was original in any case). To tackle this, I requested the Ponton club members to help me out with measurements and photos of the exhaust pipe route and their response was overwhelming. We now have all the details required.

To make the exhaust tubing, we went to a pipe bending workshop which specializes in stainless steel tubing. For the moment, a mock up has been made using cut segments of pipe and some days back I was shown this mock up of the exhaust under the car and itís turned out pretty good. Iím told that now another, more refined version is being made from MS which will serve as the template for the final SS system. Prior to this, I procured the mounting hardware required for the exhaust.

When the gearbox was being installed, we saw that it had a bracket bolted onto it without any apparent function. A look at the parts catalogue showed that this bracket supports another bracket which in turn holds a clamp that goes around the front section of the exhaust pipe to prevent it from swaying. Iíve bought the first of the missing bracket with the mounting hardware but the clamp is no longer available which doesnít matter much since we can now fabricate the clamp to fit the exhaust pipe as required.

Diagram showing the existing bracket on the gearbox cover which should have an attachment

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Diagram showing the missing bracket now procured and the clamp which will be made

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Miscellaneous parts:

Top: New bracket which was missing with washers and bushes


Bottom: 1) Bakelite junction box with copper internals for the steering and front lights wiring 2) The metal bush and needle roller bearings which fits into it

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New valve cover seal:

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The prop shaft installation also faced a bottleneck-a crucial nut was missing which was procured. The brake and clutch pedal assembly was being worked on but there again we needed a needle roller bearing, a metal bush and a silent block bearing-they had either worn out too much or in the case of the bearing, was no longer there. When sub-assemblies are being reassembled, one has to but appreciate the depth of engineering on these cars, even though they were the cheapest in the entire MB range. An example is the needle roller bearing which fits snug inside a metal bush which in turn fits into the hole at the base of the clutch pedal. This goes through a shaft around which the pedal pivots. Imagine the travel of the pedal action, itís not much-you press it down to the floor board and then release it and thatís the extent of its travel at a relatively low speed. Just a metal bush to go through the shaft would have sufficed, I believe most other cars do it this way but Merc went to the extent of inserting a small needle roller bearing to make the action a bit smoother!

Diagram showing the tiny needle roller bearing and metal bush

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Itís a small example of what Mercedes was famous for-over engineering. The exhaust pipe mounting hardware is another sub-assembly that was like a puzzle to us. Since the hardware was new and non-existent earlier, we had to refer to the manuals. Once we assembled it, at first it seemed to be a needlessly complicated set-up but the more we looked at it, we saw that every part served a vital, basic function which would make the set-up last for ages. It wasnít over engineering for the sake of it, it had a purpose.


Miscellaneous parts:

Top row-left to right: 1) Various seals for the oil filter 2) Oil filter element 3) Fuel filter housing clamp 4) Fuel filter rubber seals

Middle row: 1) Petrol filler neck seal 2) Engine mounting rubber bases 3) Fuel filter element

1st row: 1) Door jamb switch for interior light 2) Copper washers for fuel filter 3) Spring for fuel filter



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Parts: Top: 1) Exhaust mounting hardware-3 sets are required for the car 2) Gearbox rubber boot

Bottom: 1) Missing prop shaft nut 2) Silent block bearing for clutch pedal


My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton-combinedparts.jpg

To sum it up, we are now working to complete the exhaust system. Iíve also started parts bit by bit which will be required for finishing the engine bay. And by good fortune, an old parts shop owner happened to have an original parts catalogue specifically for my model, the 180a. These catalogues were used by dealerships and were available to owners for ordering parts and are virtually unobtainable now.

The cover's hardly mint but the parts catalogue is very hard to come by in any condition


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Published in 1959! My car was made in '58.


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2 illustrations from the catalogue


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The 567 page catalogue is like a bible and shows exploded illustrations of every component in the car with corresponding part numbers and itís a great piece of literature to go with the car.

On a side note, I have to mention how lucky owners of older Mercedes' are-the company stocks a huge inventory of NOS or new parts for all their classics. They either make the parts themselves or allow OEM suppliers to manufacture the parts which are then sold by MB and the quality is faultless
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Old 19th April 2014, 22:03   #345
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Default Re: My 1958 Mercedes-Benz Type 180a Ponton

MBZ180,

Its been too long since we saw a complete picture of the car. We keep seeing only parts that you have procured.

Its seriously getting very difficult to imagine where all those parts fit and how the car looks now.

Please oblige us.
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