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Old 1st July 2010, 14:58   #16
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Why would anyone in European Union (EU) countries buy this old models for such exhorbidant prices? Isn't the emission norms even stricter than US in EU? I really fail to understand this. Appreciate if someone can help me get this point. Tks.
Well, the point is quite simple:

Firstly, it is well-known that classic cars/bikes all have a HUGE market in US/UK/EU, emission norms or no emission norms. And the Lambrettas and Vespas were popular scooters all over the WORLD, originally being Italian. So people from basically all countries are familiar with them.

And the Lambrettas/Vespas in India are cheaper, and (were) far more plentiful in number. Even the ones in not the best of conditions could be easily restored to mint once abroad, since they have far better/more readily available supply of good spares there compared to us.
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Old 1st July 2010, 15:12   #17
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Wow! Lambretta's so much in demand! My dad has 2 of them rusting in his factory godown! 1 lamby 150 and a if I remember the other one is some lamby mac 150 or something!!

Need to speak to my dad soon! ;-)
The other one must have been a Mac 1.75 S----it was a more powerful variant that was introduced in the early 70s.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 15:11   #18
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Pessimism is good it helps to iron out all possible obstacles that go into a law. In this case there is no harm in registering vehicles which are certified by Vintage and Classic car organizations as genuine and collectible cars. Government need not worry about mass registrations as this is a niche hobby and only a few people will import cars and even fewer more than one. They should only allow import of restored cars, ie cars which can pass emission and safety norms outright. This will stop people from importing junk (thats what the govt is worried about).

Today we have some of the most influential lawyers, industrialist etc as collectors however we are unable to unite ourselves and make a proper representation to the Government in this matter.

Most European nations allow the import of classics even in a junked state provided that at the time of registration they pass their stingent tests, and only then are they allocated a registration number. Why should we have a issue following the same model in India?
in my view, first the export of out of production vehicles should be banned outright, that way these activities can be curbed to some extent.
all if my info is correct there is no ban on importing RHD vintage and classic vehicles into the country.I know of a `1948 Riley and a 1960 Mini MOKE being imported legally 2 years back after paying the necessary duties.
Actually the MOKE has been registered and is running also
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:15   #19
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in my view, first the export of out of production vehicles should be banned outright, that way these activities can be curbed to some extent.
all if my info is correct there is no ban on importing RHD vintage and classic vehicles into the country.I know of a `1948 Riley and a 1960 Mini MOKE being imported legally 2 years back after paying the necessary duties.
Actually the MOKE has been registered and is running also
Is this mini moke running in West Bengal?
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:38   #20
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in my view, first the export of out of production vehicles should be banned outright, that way these activities can be curbed to some extent.
all if my info is correct there is no ban on importing RHD vintage and classic vehicles into the country.I know of a `1948 Riley and a 1960 Mini MOKE being imported legally 2 years back after paying the necessary duties.
Actually the MOKE has been registered and is running also
, with Ajay. I also heard through a friend that it is possible and some been imported.

Kerala is the one state to have lots of imported vehicles, mostly recent ones, can Ajay or anyone give a try to talk to any custom department and get some more information.....
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Old 2nd July 2010, 18:03   #21
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Is this mini moke running in West Bengal?
no the mini moke is in south INDIA
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Old 2nd July 2010, 19:02   #22
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, with Ajay. I also heard through a friend that it is possible and some been imported.

Kerala is the one state to have lots of imported vehicles, mostly recent ones, can Ajay or anyone give a try to talk to any custom department and get some more information.....
peeve had given some info on this matter in some other thread.
I also will try to gather some info on this regard
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Old 2nd July 2010, 23:20   #23
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Hi!

I am commenting on several posts in one.
Export of pre 1960 vehicles is banned, post 1960 vehicles are allowed. So where is the racket?
Some have made tons of money by engaging in this activity before others caught on. And when the others got on, they simply stepped aside. So they have made a profit. Those who stepped in later went overboard with their expectations and paid too much for these scooters and are now in trouble.
As soon as I realised what was happening, I bought an LD, would never have but for these events, for 15K. And since this is my hobby, I stopped at one and did not speculate. This was 3 years ago. Maybe I even overpaid at that time.

After so many have been picked up, suddenly people realise their value. Those who have them rotting in their godowns will now at least try to stop them rotting, if not restore. So scooters which were dumped are suddenly being saved. And not because of enthusiasm, but because of realisation of their value, which in my thinking translates to GREED.

Scooters and bikes have been going out in containers along with VW vans, many splits have gone and baywindows followed. Ofcourse some vintage bikes too may have gone, that happens.

Exporters are all over the country, you cannot single out any particular city.

There was also an API factory somewhere in Mumbai, Bhandup or Mulund, which had a stock of Italian Innocetti's, they were sold for around 60K each. To expensive for me, not worth IMHO, so I left them. But some people did buy, whether they are still in India or have gone I do not know. There were about 50 to 60 of them, various models.

These were always passing fads. Depending upon the exchange rate, cars have been tranversing the oceans between America and Europe all the time, the directions depending upon the exchange rate between the USDLR and Euro, or earlier the currency of each individual country. If India were to allow imports, we would definitely see many vehicles coming back and new one also comming in. But, unfortunately, we have senseless policies which till date no one has managed to get amended, so we watch stuff go out but nothing coming in.

But this happens not only with scooters, it happened with antiques too. If you went to chor bazar in the 1980's, you could buy pocket watches to your hearts content. And wooden wall clocks too. Now they are all gone, if good watches or clocks appear, they are shown behind closed doors. This will keep on happening, from generation to generation, from item to item, and only someone with foresight, luck and money will really benefit, either as a collector or as a trader.

About imports, apparently some cars have come in, but it is not really allowed, otherwise we would have seen atleast some Duesenbergs and Bugatti's come in. There are people with enough capabilities and desire to import such vehicles tomorrow. Some which indeed came in managed under some special provisions, it is their good luck and one should leave it at that.

Instead of ruing the losses due to exports, one should go and buy up and save what is left to find. That is a brilliant statement, I must admit.
Cheers harit
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Old 3rd July 2010, 00:10   #24
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
There was also an API factory somewhere in Mumbai, Bhandup or Mulund, which had a stock of Italian Innocetti's, they were sold for around 60K each. To expensive for me, not worth IMHO, so I left them. But some people did buy, whether they are still in India or have gone I do not know. There were about 50 to 60 of them, various models.
I was told that there were about half a dozen "d" (a.k.a open LD) lambrettas lying there, which were all picked up by the brother of a well-known collector in B'bay, for the price you mention (and thereafter sold for higher prices to others who were interested!) One of them was allegedly this one, which was bought by a bike collector in Hyd. and thoroughly restored, albeit mostly bodily and cosmetically:

Lambretta-Vijai Racket- Exporters Make Hay While Lambrettas/Vijais Shine!!-img_4755.jpg

Quote:
About imports, apparently some cars have come in, but it is not really allowed, otherwise we would have seen atleast some Duesenbergs and Bugatti's come in. There are people with enough capabilities and desire to import such vehicles tomorrow. Some which indeed came in managed under some special provisions, it is their good luck and one should leave it at that.
Indeed, even I was given to understand that no car older than 3 years of age is allowed to be imported!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 01:13   #25
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@Stanher - Thanks for the explanation; so its some kind of private collector or collectors who're interested & not like for exporting for the sake disposing to mass. So if I go with what Harit Sir says, the collection has been stopped now right? And the demand bubble has bursted.

I'm madly in love with the scooter that you posted. Looks very cute & beautiful & I think the owner really loved it when he bought otherwise it would've not come out so perfect. What do you think? Look at the color combination between the seats, tyres (white walled) & the scooter itself? That explains everything isn't it?

And what is the other storage next to the fuel tank? Tool/utility box is it?

@Harit Sir - That was very detailed enough. Appreciate your time to explain.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 12:37   #26
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Even with all this the prices have not come down, i am made to believe a similar model was bought for / or was on sale for 150 K (including middle mens) and then some one bought a chestlight for the price of nano. Are these prices justifiable. Have we really come down. No.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 17:06   #27
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
so its some kind of private collector or collectors who're interested & not like for exporting for the sake disposing to mass. So if I go with what Harit Sir says, the collection has been stopped now right? And the demand bubble has bursted.
I'm madly in love with the scooter that you posted. And what is the other storage next to the fuel tank? Tool/utility box is it?
Yes, its a glovebox/dicky I would say. The tool-box, believe it or not, is the cylindrical tube right under the front seat!

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Originally Posted by manishalive View Post
Even with all this the prices have not come down, i am made to believe a similar model was bought for / or was on sale for 150 K (including middle mens) and then some one bought a chestlight for the price of nano. Are these prices justifiable. Have we really come down. No.
with Manish- even though the exports may have slowed down (I dont believe they've entirely stopped), the cascading effect that someone had mentioned earlier, with regard to prices, is still taking effect! Last year was ironically supposed to be the time for the export market to be down due to the recession, but that was when I got my LD at a very expensive price, bought from one such exporter in Delhi!

And again, last year, I was told of a s1 in Delhi again available with some dealer (most likely another exporter) price for which was quoted 60k firm! And although I wasnt shown any pics. of said scoot (the guy who told me promised me those, upon my agreeing on a commission for him as well but never did get them!) from the description it didnt seem exactly mint/pristine. I eventually dropped out on it.
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Old 3rd July 2010, 17:24   #28
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
Hi!

I am commenting on several posts in one.
Export of pre 1960 vehicles is banned, post 1960 vehicles are allowed. So where is the racket?
Some have made tons of money by engaging in this activity before others caught on. And when the others got on, they simply stepped aside. So they have made a profit. Those who stepped in later went overboard with their expectations and paid too much for these scooters and are now in trouble.
As soon as I realised what was happening, I bought an LD, would never have but for these events, for 15K. And since this is my hobby, I stopped at one and did not speculate. This was 3 years ago. Maybe I even overpaid at that time.

After so many have been picked up, suddenly people realise their value. Those who have them rotting in their godowns will now at least try to stop them rotting, if not restore. So scooters which were dumped are suddenly being saved. And not because of enthusiasm, but because of realisation of their value, which in my thinking translates to GREED.

Scooters and bikes have been going out in containers along with VW vans, many splits have gone and baywindows followed. Ofcourse some vintage bikes too may have gone, that happens.

Exporters are all over the country, you cannot single out any particular city.

There was also an API factory somewhere in Mumbai, Bhandup or Mulund, which had a stock of Italian Innocetti's, they were sold for around 60K each. To expensive for me, not worth IMHO, so I left them. But some people did buy, whether they are still in India or have gone I do not know. There were about 50 to 60 of them, various models.

These were always passing fads. Depending upon the exchange rate, cars have been tranversing the oceans between America and Europe all the time, the directions depending upon the exchange rate between the USDLR and Euro, or earlier the currency of each individual country. If India were to allow imports, we would definitely see many vehicles coming back and new one also comming in. But, unfortunately, we have senseless policies which till date no one has managed to get amended, so we watch stuff go out but nothing coming in.

But this happens not only with scooters, it happened with antiques too. If you went to chor bazar in the 1980's, you could buy pocket watches to your hearts content. And wooden wall clocks too. Now they are all gone, if good watches or clocks appear, they are shown behind closed doors. This will keep on happening, from generation to generation, from item to item, and only someone with foresight, luck and money will really benefit, either as a collector or as a trader.

About imports, apparently some cars have come in, but it is not really allowed, otherwise we would have seen atleast some Duesenbergs and Bugatti's come in. There are people with enough capabilities and desire to import such vehicles tomorrow. Some which indeed came in managed under some special provisions, it is their good luck and one should leave it at that.

Instead of ruing the losses due to exports, one should go and buy up and save what is left to find. That is a brilliant statement, I must admit.
Cheers harit



I absolutely agree with Harit Sir"s "brilliant statement " we should concentrate on acquiring whatever is left rather than wasting our time . Reality is that we all realized that the worth of these scoots after they started getting exported for fancy prices. Today very few of us are actively collecting Jawa/Yezdi bikes since they are available for 5-7k , the day that the European/american market opens up for these vehicles , the exporters will start acquiring them in dozens and they will all disappear. Then we will all start to blame the exporters for the "disappearing Jawa Syndrome "
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Old 3rd July 2010, 18:00   #29
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[/b]

I absolutely agree with Harit Sir"s "brilliant statement " we should concentrate on acquiring whatever is left rather than wasting our time . Reality is that we all realized that the worth of these scoots after they started getting exported for fancy prices. Today very few of us are actively collecting Jawa/Yezdi bikes since they are available for 5-7k , the day that the European/american market opens up for these vehicles , the exporters will start acquiring them in dozens and they will all disappear. Then we will all start to blame the exporters for the "disappearing Jawa Syndrome "
my friend,
where are you getting JAWAs or yezdis for 5000-7000 INR?At least in Kerala ,you cannot get a running Yezdi for less than 15000 and Jawa for less than 25000!
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Old 3rd July 2010, 18:06   #30
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@harit some points you have put forth are valid. Imports need to be liberalised to have a level play field.But unfortunately what goes away never returns.To add to the woes are the world value of the rupee which makes exports to these rich western countries very cheap.
The word "racket" has been carefully selected by me. I know that there exists a ban on the export of pre 1960 automobiles and have mentioned about it at the very beginning of this thread.
A 1955 LD has been bought by a fellow bhpian for Rs 1.75 L (will never name him)
A 1950's D is quoted for sale @ Rs 2.5 L
Another 1955 LD is up for sale @ Rs 1.5 L
These are all pre- 1960's automobiles indeed whose exports are banned.Why have these prices skyrocketed due to a sudden vacuum as far as supplies go and a spurt as far as demand goes?
So this has prompted me to the use of the word "racket"?
Please also refer to my first post wherein I have referred to Wikipedia.
Lambretta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QUOTE "The Lambretta scooter is constantly growing in value; their rarity and increased demand means that a standard LI 150 series 3 (known as the standard scooter) in good condition will fetch over 3,000 ($5,950) whereas the rarer models of Lambretta e.g. the TV200 in mint condition has been sold for sums of up to 12,000 ($23,750)." (unqoute)
The demand in the U.K. and Italy for restored Lambrettas are still at an all time high.
Even the 1980's Lambys are selling here in India for Rs 20 to 25 K.
If you carefully browse through the links I have given in my first post, there is a 1969 Lambretta Li 150 up for sale for Rs 65000 in India.
And I have mentioned Delhi since I know that Lambrettas are reaching there from all over the country.Please also see the Delhi based exporters' link threads in my first post.
If there are other cities anyone is aware of, he or she is most welcome to say about it and add to our knowledge base.
Lastly, I feel that for old Lambrettas, nothing on the economic front will be the same again.The demand is bound to rise and rise with momentary, intervening lull moments and periodic falls in prices due to several complicated and may be unforeseen market factors.But the overall trend will be meteoric price rises.
So for now the arithmetic will be:
2 Landmasters = 1 Lambretta D
2 Fiat Dukkars = 1 Lambretta D
2 Ambassadors Mark I = 1 Lambretta LD
and so on!

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 3rd July 2010 at 18:09.
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