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Old 31st August 2011, 12:44   #196
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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BTW, by NC paint, I presume you mean the 'Duco' paints?
Yes I think they still go by that name. Basically, Nitrocellulose (NC) and Alkyd use the solvent evaporation method. The solvent - thinner dilutes the paint and when sprayed, evaporate to leave the paint behind. NC uses lots of thinner which has a negative effect of lifting your existing paint by softening it.
Alkyd is diluted with 20% thinner and relies on its slower evaporation and drying speed to give a good surface. Less damage to earlier paint.
2K uses little thinner and depends on the action of the hardener to activate the hardening process and gives a near inert surface. Best but also the trickiest. A sealant is to be applied if being sprayed over existing NC paint. 2K primer has fantastic self leveling properties.
The only problem I see is that the Herald has inherent structural deficiencies in its body work which you will have to get around.
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Old 31st August 2011, 12:58   #197
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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Thanks! How I wish I could've driven her around today though!
Still to get the solenoid and fuel pump fitted! :sigh:


Hmm.....I guess in that case that workshop (which is more of a high-profile one) is importing those paints?

Yes, agree with you about the attitudes and methods of the painters here!

BTW, by NC paint, I presume you mean the 'Duco' paints?
Hi Shyam,

Congratulations to you on completing 1 year's ownership of your car. She looks very clean in the pic.

Glasurit incidentally is available in 1 shop that I know of in Kolkata, and that is what I want to use for my car, since the paint was originally Glasurit.

However, I differ on Basky's 2k vs NC paint views. I have asked a few pro painters, old timers, on their opinion, and they said that very good quality NC paint, along with similar quality solvents etc. will also produce excellent finish, along with depth. I asked them this because people of my parents and grandparents generation always say that cars of their time had much superior paint jobs, andbetter gloss and depth, and this is also true in the cars with the best paint jobs in the Statesman Rally in town; they are mostly NC based paint jobs.

The other thing which I have noticed (atleast this is true on my new gen car), is that once the clear coat becomes thinner and looses its ability to protect the 2k paint, the paint start to slowly fade when kept over a few years for moderate duration under sunlight. Whereas in NC paint, even after a year, if you polish well, the gloss is maintained and may also improve.

However, the painters did also say that the quality of NC paint is no longer as good as it was till around 15 years back, since 2k paint started becoming popular. But some hunting will still be able to get you good NC paint.

These are just my observations so please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:22   #198
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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The only problem I see is that the Herald has inherent structural deficiencies in its body work which you will have to get around.
Um, do you mean Heralds in general?

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very good quality NC paint, along with similar quality solvents etc. will also produce excellent finish, along with depth. I asked them this because people of my parents and grandparents generation always say that cars of their time had much superior paint jobs, andbetter gloss and depth, and this is also true in the cars with the best paint jobs in the Statesman Rally in town; they are mostly NC based paint jobs.

in NC paint, even after a year, if you polish well, the gloss is maintained and may also improve.

However, the painters did also say that the quality of NC paint is no longer as good as it was till around 15 years back, since 2k paint started becoming popular. But some hunting will still be able to get you good NC paint.
Yes, I agree, there are cars with the 'NC' paint that also look smooth and glossy. Take the case of my own car- its still in the paint that was applied 20+ years ago (1989!), except for the doors (had to repaint them because of the patchwork), bootlid (had to repaint because there was an ugly sticker stuck on the top that could not be scraped off without damaging the existing paint) and just the top of the roof (which got ruined because of them placing plastic sheets to cover the entrances while the doors were removed for re-patching, the car being parked in the open all the while, rainwater got in between the sheets and roof!)
And even today, with a wash and wipe, the areas with the old paint still look and feel smooth and shiny! Whereas the areas that were touched up last year have a less uniform and rather cheap finish, almost a matty feel! Of course that might've been of a cheaper brand than the existing paint.

But even overall when I notice, cars repainted with the 'NC'/Duco paints these days have a similar poor finish compared to older cars that also used such paints. So your painters could be right about the quality no longer being good. It might be because NC paint-makers no longer see the paint as profitable? Just as the case with present-day spares for older cars compared to the OE ones that were made better?

Last edited by Stanher : 31st August 2011 at 14:24.
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Old 31st August 2011, 16:26   #199
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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But even overall when I notice, cars repainted with the 'NC'/Duco paints these days have a similar poor finish compared to older cars that also used such paints. So your painters could be right about the quality no longer being good. It might be because NC paint-makers no longer see the paint as profitable? Just as the case with present-day spares for older cars compared to the OE ones that were made better?
Exactly, the quality of NC Duco paints have gone down as there is little demand and no longer profitable compared to 2k. On another note, a friend of mine wanted some touch up work done on his 2 door Zen Carbon, which has this rare paint which looks blackish dark blue from some angles and complete black from others, and when I went to match it in a paint shop, they told me that there were 2 qualities of 2K for that shade. One was apparently imported and nearly double the price of the local one. So I guess superior 2K paint will also be as good as the best NC paint.

Regards
Prithvi
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Old 31st August 2011, 18:20   #200
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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Um, do you mean Heralds in general?
In General. The Herald is not a monocoque body ie the chassis is separate from the body. Your car has a very good body shape. Normally in this type of construction it requires some effort to keep the panels aligned and in good shape.

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Yes, I agree, there are cars with the 'NC' paint that also look smooth and glossy.
The main problem with NC is that the excess thinner used tends to loosen up the old paint and there is a likelihood of crazing or simply lifting putty + paint unless you go in for a scrape down to bare metal.(I learnt my lessons the hard way years ago with my father's old second hand Fiat 1100). Then you will have to rebuild the layers of leveling, priming and painting. Though NC paint is cheaper, its coverage is substantially lower than the others making multiple layers necessary to build up the paint.

The old people are right in a way as NC is always rubbed down and polished which gives the high gloss. Even here painters cut corners by doing it soon after painting - in a day or two. For any type of paint, you are supposed to let the trapped solvents escape over a couple of weeks before rubbing and waxing or these solvents will start blistering here and there in their effort to find a way out. Also, NC dried for a couple of weeks becomes quite hard - and the painters have to work extra hard to rub down before waxing.

2K primer coats are High Build coats and they level well hiding lots of blemishes. A couple of coats of primer give a quick level surface. If you like to fine sand it down and lay on more primer coats - you will get a very good surface fast.

The colour coats are also solid and applied wet on wet with a flash time of about 20 mins. You can follow with clear coats if you want - normally used only for metallic paints.

2K paint is given gentle heat to harden it faster and polishing is not necessary.(If you look carefully, they all have a small orange peel effect) That is the beauty for the paint shops - fast turnaround, less work and more money.

If you are a mad hatter like me, I would go in for a full detail paint correction even after 2K - perhaps a month later and you'll get the much appreciated gloss as the orange peel effect can be reduced or even removed - depending on how far you want to go.

Even with all the knowledge, paint shops will continue in their own sweet way. I am sure that the shop you mentioned will be one of the better one who will follow more of the standard than usual. If you spend some free time looking at their work quality, the decision will be easy. Go for the best you can afford unless you want to hire a painter and equipment and work from some friendly soul's yard and learn the process by trial. Dont do that for 2K.
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Old 31st August 2011, 19:55   #201
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

Also Stanher, Make sure, you get the car done in a shop which has a paint booth. And dont just go by the booth. See that it is in a well kept condition as most of the shops dont change filters (due to high cost) making the whole concept useless.
I would suggest you go for 2K. Its much more advanced and gives you a better finish plus durability.
BTW, has anyone you checked for availabilty of Standox paints? Are they available here in India?
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Old 31st August 2011, 21:55   #202
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

Congratulations on the 'Anniversary', Shyam !!
She's a real show-stopper !!

We'd like to see some pictures, taken in nice locales, with good backdrops - would love it if you find time for a good photo-session someday soon. It'll be manna for our hungry eyes !
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Old 31st August 2011, 23:28   #203
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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Originally Posted by basky View Post
In General. The Herald is not a monocoque body ie the chassis is separate from the body. Your car has a very good body shape. Normally in this type of construction it requires some effort to keep the panels aligned and in good shape.
Yes, I knew it is a separate chassis. And yes, your're right about this kind of body needing extra effort compared to the older monocoque cars. Especially getting the bonnet aligned!

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Even with all the knowledge, paint shops will continue in their own sweet way. I am sure that the shop you mentioned will be one of the better one who will follow more of the standard than usual. If you spend some free time looking at their work quality, the decision will be easy.
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Also Stanher, Make sure, you get the car done in a shop which has a paint booth. And dont just go by the booth. See that it is in a well kept condition as most of the shops dont change filters (due to high cost) making the whole concept useless. BTW, has anyone you checked for availabilty of Standox paints? Are they available here in India?
Yes, agreed you dont get the effect of 2k without a proper paint booth. The garage that has the glasurit paint is quite a 'sophisticaed' workshop and quite strict on quality and safety standards. They are more towards performance cars (used for drag races) but are also doing up classics nowadays! Their attention to detail in bodywork I have found is usually very good.

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We'd like to see some pictures, taken in nice locales, with good backdrops - would love it if you find time for a good photo-session someday soon. It'll be manna for our hungry eyes !
I did take a couple of them so far, you would've seen one on FB already (yes the same one in my avtaar!)

But yes, she does deserve more, she does! And rest assured, more there shall be!

Which reminds me, on your mention of 'Anniversary', these lines from the poem "The Anniversarie" by John Donne:

"Let us love nobly, and live, and add again
Years and years unto years, till we attain
To write threescore ; this is the second of our reign."

Last edited by Stanher : 31st August 2011 at 23:44.
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Old 1st September 2011, 13:33   #204
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

Shyam, Many congratulations on the Anniversary.

A befitting car to the befitting owner

BTW, what happened to the other Herald that you started restoring 2 years ago? Hope the car owner gets to enjoy his car the same way you are doing with yours

All the Best.
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Old 1st September 2011, 16:40   #205
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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Shyam, Many congratulations on the Anniversary.

A befitting car to the befitting owner
Thanks!

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BTW, what happened to the other Herald that you started restoring 2 years ago? Hope the car owner gets to enjoy his car the same way you are doing with yours
They had proceeded with the tinwork on the body a couple of months ago (forgot to take pics. then!) and then again stopped as they claimed they had a couple of other cars to 'urgently' finish the bodywork on!! Now they insist on finishing the 2nd of the 2 cars (an Ambassador), which is in the painting stage when I last checked earlier this week, so should resume work after that. I'm into a job again now so will be free only in the evenings or on sat. (half-day working) to check on them.
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Old 1st September 2011, 18:55   #206
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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Yes, I knew it is a separate chassis.
Must think of the positives also. You can take the panels off and prepare it properly. Leave the roof off and it becomes an open top sports car

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The garage that has the glasurit paint is quite a 'sophisticaed' workshop and quite strict on quality and safety standards. Their attention to detail in bodywork I have found is usually very good.
Lucky you. Problem solved! Prices?

I
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Old 1st September 2011, 19:29   #207
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Must think of the positives also. You can take the panels off and prepare it properly. Leave the roof off and it becomes an open top sports car
Thanks! 'knew that too!
But I would've liked to have only a genuine convertible, or something that was already made so when I acquired it. I'm NOT going to mutilate my car at all...I did have a thought about temporarily making it 'topless' just to be used so when(??) I get married!
But then, would have to face challenges there too, as the roof/glasses would have to be stored carefully without even getting a push so they could again be refitted hassle-free after the job's done!

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Lucky you. Problem solved! Prices?
Havent enquired yet. 'would be pricey no doubt, if imported. But once applied would be worth it I guess!
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Old 1st September 2011, 19:54   #208
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Default Re: Welcome my new (b)ride, CAN 1526 (nee APF 4050)!

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I did have a thought about temporarily making it 'topless' just to be used so when(??) I get married!
So how soon can we expect CAN to go topless?
Happy Anniversary to both of you.
And please don't forget your other cars. Where are the updates on the Companion?
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Old 1st September 2011, 21:12   #209
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Thanks! 'knew that too!
Since you are an avid collector and restorer of Standard and other cars, I know that you knew. I was just recapping the virtues of the Herald. I always wanted to get hold of one but never managed to see a good piece for sale.

Used to see quite a few open topped Heralds in Pune during the late '70s. They used to put them back during the monsoon.

My mechanic had a Herald which he modified with a Standard Pennants rear axle and welding up the car. Finished it well actually. He passed away about 5 years ago and I dont know where it went afterwords.

Update us on the other ongoing jobs too.
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Old 1st September 2011, 22:16   #210
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@basky - When I have the funds, I'll drive down my herald and you can have fun with it And the best part is the car is black
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