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Old 17th April 2011, 13:22   #31
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
Good going, ed.

BTW, one question about the headset- is it possible to fabricate one in aluminium just like the original one, using the latter as a sample?

I'm aware that many lambretta body parts and panels are fabricated and available as new. So considering this headset is of a unique shape, it could be useful as a spare?

Also is it possible to get a pic. of that plate fitted on your toolbox door? Is it a dealer's plate of some sort?
Hi Stanher

I guess it would be possible for a company to fabricate these headsets but given the very low demand for these scooters I doubt if anyone would want to do so.

The plate is a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) plate. Very unusual for it to be on a removable component such as a tool box door as it rather defeats the purpose of the plate staying with and identifying the vehicle frame. These (on Lambys and Vijais and Spanish Lambrettas were fitted below the tool box door between the petrol and choke levers. At first, I queried if the plate had been repositioned there by a previous owner, however, all the other examples of this vehicle (including those in the sales literature) show the plate on the tool box door.

The plate contains the following detail;

Kelvinator of India Ltd
AVANTI - 148cc
Prod no 00626
Engine no 213800 6** (last 2 numbers omitted by me)
Chassis no 382200 6** (last 2 numbers omitted by me)

What the plate proves is that my scooter was the 626th example made - I'm guessing that makes it within the first year of production, even allowing for the production run on these being in small numbers

Regards
Ed
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Old 30th April 2011, 23:47   #32
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

Hi all

I Got a load more done on the Kelvinator over the last week or so (which is amazing, as I'm very busy in all aspects of my life at the moment!).

I have got the legshields and horncast fitted and have added some decals that I hope will please some of my friends on this forum

Parts used:

1x Original Kelvinator legshields
1x New SIL Vijai vibration rubbers set for legshields/floor struts.
2x Original Kelvinator alloy endcaps for legshield beading
2x New SIL legshield beadings.
1x Bangalore Classic Scooter Club decal (Thanks Sidman)
1x Hyderabad Classic Scooter Club decal (Thanks Hillman)
1x Philips Scooters Lucknow decal (reproduction)

The forks were stripped and all parts examined. Regrettably, all new parts (with the exception of the links) had to be used when I rebuilt them. The old rods were bent, the springs badly compressed, etc - obviously the scooter has had a very hard life!

Parts used:

2x New (Uni brand) fork rods
2x New (Uni brand) fork springs
2x New SIL buffer sets (top and bottom, 4 pieces)
2x New SIL fork nylon washers/spacers for top of rods/springs (or 'polos' as we call them in the UK - after the famous mint with the hole in).
2x New fork bolts, nuts, washers (series 2/Lamby type as originally fitted) - Serna brand.
2x New SIL nylon bushes for links - Vijai ones used but had to be reduced down as too long for links
2x New SIL metal bushes for links.
2x second hand Italian series 2 grease nipples for fork bolts (missing on machine when I acquired it).
4x New SIL steel shims for fork links.
2x New (Uni brand) ball bearings for fork rods.

A fork compressor tool used in the fork disassembly - appropriately made by Mega Inc, New Delhi.

I have cleaned up the front mudguard of overspay and have treated the entire underneath with a coat of rust treatment primer after removing the surface rust visible there. I have uploaded some pictures of the mudguard from various angles to demonstrate how it differs from other Lambretta variants.

Pictures also added of the rebuilt forks in order to show the strange fork links and the brackets used to support the mudgard and steering dampers.

Regards
Ed
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Last edited by edsuede : 30th April 2011 at 23:54. Reason: Grammar improved
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Old 1st May 2011, 15:01   #33
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

Dear Ed..Im elated to see your Kelvinator getting into its final stages of restoration.And it gives me an extra loads of joy to see our HCSC Sticker on your Kelvinator.Hats off to your spirts and thanks for taking our logo into United Kingdom !!!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 00:34   #34
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Dear Ed..Im elated to see your Kelvinator getting into its final stages of restoration.And it gives me an extra loads of joy to see our HCSC Sticker on your Kelvinator.Hats off to your spirts and thanks for taking our logo into United Kingdom !!!
Thank you Hillram for your continued encouragement.

The Kelvinator is, I feel, far from it's final stages of restoration - it looks like alot has been done but there is still a huge amount to achieve yet

I decided to spend time clearing up the workshop today - I have really let it get into a state - there's no excuse, just laziness on my part! So after I had chucked away aload of broken parts, put away tools, swept up and cleaned everything down I decided to do a little more on 'project Kelvinator' - and how much easier it was with more space

I re-united the front mudguard with the forks.

Parts used:

1x New SIL dished dust cover
1x New (Swedish Industries brand) lower steering bearing track.

Then I started on the headset re-build. This was not as straightforward as I was expecting. For a start, the Vijai type plastic ring bush locating the throttle rod into the throttle sleeve had to be cut down to match the original. In the process of this I realised that the throttle/gear rods of the Kelvinator are a length inbetween that of a Vijai and Lamby. The light switch housing had to be carefully bent out over several attempts in order to make it marry up with the switch casting on the housing - a very careful job so that the switch was not damaged!

Parts used:

1x Original Kelvinator headset clamp (painted up with grey rust preventer)
1x Second hand Innocenti Bolt for above (original had damage to threads)
1x Original Kelvinator switch housing (polished up)
1x New light/horn switch (MAK brand - original was Purolite brand)
2x Innocenti (New old stock) shims for between switch housing/throttle sleeve.
1x Original Kelvinator throttle sleeve (needed alot of cleaning up!)
2x Original Kelvinator brackets for throttle and gear rods.
2x New plastic olive bushes for throttle/gear rods (unknown make) but Vijai type.
4x New plastic ring bushes for locating throttle/gear rods in handlebar (brand unknown)
1x New (Park brand) throttle pulley.
1x New Innocenti alloy wiring clip (New old stock)
1x New Innocenti shim between gear changing housing/headset (New old stock).

Regards
Ed
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:52   #35
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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I have got the legshields and horncast fitted and have added some decals that I hope will please some of my friends on this forum
Happy to help you out with the BCSC stickers! I really like your open, non-elitist attitude towards our beloved Indian scooters!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 13:18   #36
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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Happy to help you out with the BCSC stickers! I really like your open, non-elitist attitude towards our beloved Indian scooters!
Thank you Sidman for your kind words. It is a genuine honour to be allowed to display the decals from BCSC and HCSC on the Kelvinator here in the UK

The Kelvinator has become a real passion and labour of love to me - I hope my Kelvinator, when finished, meets with the approval of enthusiasts like yourself.

Regards
Ed
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Old 2nd May 2011, 22:49   #37
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

More progress - it was a public holiday in the UK today (or Bank Holiday as we call them) so what better way to spend a few hours this afternoon than working on the Kelvinator

I made up the 3 wheels needed and fitted one onto the spare wheel holder, complete with an old battered SIL wheel disc - I haven't got a Kelvinator one and don't rate my chances of finding one either! The existing Kelvinator rims were VERY badly rusted, and dented too - there was no way I was going to re-use them.

Parts used:

3x New (Uni Brand) pairs of rims.
3x New inner tubes (Mysol brand - made in Mysore)
3x Michellin S1 tyres (made in Croatia apparently!)

Did more on the headset. After alot of work I managed to refit the gear assembly and gear rod. The rod has been welded into the gear sleeve at some point in it's life and it had all the old worn plastic bushes stuck up inside it. These would not budge at all so I had to burn them out with a blow torch. The new plastic bushes then had to be filed down quite a bit before the gear assembly would pass over them.

Parts used:

1x Gear pulley wheel (park brand)
2x wire cable guides (second hand Innocenti items)
1x Gear support and rod (original Kelvinator).

Just a query regards Indian motoring law? Why is it that every project scooter I have ever seen imported from India has bald tyres on it. The Kelvinator tyres were completely bald! Is it legal to use a vehicle in India with bald tyres?

Regards
Ed
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Old 2nd May 2011, 23:14   #38
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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Just a query regards Indian motoring law? Why is it that every project scooter I have ever seen imported from India has bald tyres on it. The Kelvinator tyres were completely bald! Is it legal to use a vehicle in India with bald tyres?
Scoot's looking good, ed!

As for your query- well, its not the question of legal or illegal, in any case it wouldnt make a difference to the 'average' motorists here (NOT 'our' kind who visit team-bhp and join clubs for their scooters!) most of the time...but I guess scooters/2-wheelers in India commonly have bald tyres because tyres generally wear out faster here than in countries like yours, mainly because of the rough roads (and in some parts of towns/rural areas they arent even metalled) and the driving habits of the people here. And in most cases people (again, the 'average' scooterists) want to avoid spending on replacing them etc.

Also in case of scooters, as I'd mentioned before, they are used and abused until they are (terminally) dead! even more compared to cars, which are atleast seen as status symobols and are in most cases, relatively a little better-kept. Scooters were and still are just plain workhorses here, (except for brand new ones maybe) so receive the least of TLC and are usually fixed by and large on the cheap. People who own them seldom bother to replace parts that arent too crucial for them to run even if spares are available. This is why you often find some from India that also have missing/broken/non-functional tail-lamps, switch-housings or speedometers, worn-out seats etc. and would've yet never been legally prevented from running on the roads. And the lower the income-strata of the owners, the worse the scooter would be! Even in the fitness tests, the local authorities usually just check if the vehicle can start and run.

It is indeed dangerous to even think about driving regularly on bald tyres, particularly on our kind of roads, also given that people here even carry their whole families on a 2-wheeler but many of them still do it regardless!

Last edited by Stanher : 2nd May 2011 at 23:30.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 00:24   #39
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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Scoot's looking good, ed!

People who own them seldom bother to replace parts that arent too crucial for them to run even if spares are available. This is why you often find some from India that also have missing/broken/non-functional tail-lamps, switch-housings or speedometers, worn-out seats etc. and would've yet never been legally prevented from running on the roads. And the lower the income-strata of the owners, the worse the scooter would be! Even in the fitness tests, the local authorities usually just check if the vehicle can start and run.

Thank you Stanher for your kind reply to my query. What you say rings a bell with me. Just about EVERY unrestored scooter imported from India that I have seen here in the UK also has the following faults besides the bald tyres; damaged/missing back light, ripped seats with missing/broken springs, badly worn fork internals, badly worn wheel bearings, missing floor runner strips, bashed wheel rims (often with sheered studs) etc.

Several thoughts spring to mind - first, there must be alot of scooter related accidents in India caused by these clearly dangerous machines. And, how do the owners of such vehicles fare with regard to insurance cover - i.e. managing to insure an unroadworthy vehicle in the first place, and then in regard to claiming insurance money if they've been involved in an accident when their vehicle is in such a poor state?

Regards
Ed
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:29   #40
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

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Several thoughts spring to mind - first, there must be alot of scooter related accidents in India caused by these clearly dangerous machines. And, how do the owners of such vehicles fare with regard to insurance cover - i.e. managing to insure an unroadworthy vehicle in the first place, and then in regard to claiming insurance money if they've been involved in an accident when their vehicle is in such a poor state?
Ed, as far as insurance is concerned over here, its in most cases treated more as the owners' discretion rather than something mandatory!
I dont know if all the scooters you get from here come to you without the documents but if otherwise, you'd notice that many of them lack a valid insurance policy once they are fairly old, except in case of careful owners whose scooters are also normally well-kept and fully functional as opposed to the beat-up trashed ones you find.
Even getting the insurance policy for them is something as good as a joke here, from my experience.
Nowadays, atleast for vehicles more than 15 years old, turns out you only need to get a 3rd party liability cover (for use to claim against you in case of accidents etc.) because that's legally mandatory here for all vehicles. So for one thing, its a far simpler task than getting a personal damage cover etc. In any case, even if you claim damage for your vehicle, most of these insurance firms are practically unhelpful /incapable, viz. getting you any correct replacement spares etc., if you have a very old vehicle!

I'm not sure if its the same in all Indian cities but in this state, if you go down to any of the insurance firms here (especially govt. owned ones, which charge less than the private ones for any policy), all they insist is a copy of the regn. book and your vehicle must have a valid fitness certificate or FC (something like your MoT but done every 5 years), failing which they refuse to issue/renew a full (1-year) policy but put you on some temporary coverage until you get the FC renewed (for which I already mentioned the procedure to you) and they are usually least bothered about the current state of the vehicle other than the regn. and the engine/chassis nos. matching!
I'd recently got an insurance renewal done for 2 of my cars that had expired insurance, and on both occasions, I just produced photocopies of the documents and my D.Licence as ID proof, and it took more than an hour ONLY for the paperwork! Believe it or not, both the times, I was just verbally asked if I'd brought the car to which I replied affirmative, expecting them to inspect atleast for the matching nos. etc. But to my surprise, they didnt even bother to come out and look at the car, even though I parked it right outside their office building!!

And once you have a valid insurance, you only need to submit the document at the same office and pay for the renewal every year even if you dont have a valid FC! provided you get it done before your current insurance lapses.

Last edited by Stanher : 3rd May 2011 at 12:34.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 21:36   #41
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Ed, as far as insurance is concerned over here, its in most cases treated more as the owners' discretion rather than something mandatory!
I dont know if all the scooters you get from here come to you without the documents but if otherwise, you'd notice that many of them lack a valid insurance policy once they are fairly old, except in case of careful owners whose scooters are also normally well-kept and fully functional as opposed to the beat-up trashed ones you find.
Even getting the insurance policy for them is something as good as a joke here, from my experience.
Nowadays, atleast for vehicles more than 15 years old, turns out you only need to get a 3rd party liability cover (for use to claim against you in case of accidents etc.) because that's legally mandatory here for all vehicles. So for one thing, its a far simpler task than getting a personal damage cover etc. In any case, even if you claim damage for your vehicle, most of these insurance firms are practically unhelpful /incapable, viz. getting you any correct replacement spares etc., if you have a very old vehicle!

I'm not sure if its the same in all Indian cities but in this state, if you go down to any of the insurance firms here (especially govt. owned ones, which charge less than the private ones for any policy), all they insist is a copy of the regn. book and your vehicle must have a valid fitness certificate or FC (something like your MoT but done every 5 years), failing which they refuse to issue/renew a full (1-year) policy but put you on some temporary coverage until you get the FC renewed (for which I already mentioned the procedure to you) and they are usually least bothered about the current state of the vehicle other than the regn. and the engine/chassis nos. matching!
I'd recently got an insurance renewal done for 2 of my cars that had expired insurance, and on both occasions, I just produced photocopies of the documents and my D.Licence as ID proof, and it took more than an hour ONLY for the paperwork! Believe it or not, both the times, I was just verbally asked if I'd brought the car to which I replied affirmative, expecting them to inspect atleast for the matching nos. etc. But to my surprise, they didnt even bother to come out and look at the car, even though I parked it right outside their office building!!

And once you have a valid insurance, you only need to submit the document at the same office and pay for the renewal every year even if you dont have a valid FC! provided you get it done before your current insurance lapses.
Thank you Stanher for once again taking the time to post such a comprehensive reply to my query - very enlightening

My apologies to everyone for going off topic by requesting this information, but it does at least explain how my Kelvinator ended up the way she did. In view of what Stanher has now told me, I count myself lucky that she has survived with so many of her original parts still intact

Regards
Ed
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Old 8th May 2011, 16:51   #42
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

Hi Friends

Not a great deal to report on project Kelvinator since last time but I have at least now re-assembled the front end of the scooter.

Regrettably, the existing front hub was in such poor condition that it had to be replaced for reasons of safety. The original hub was a Vijai design so I have replaced it with a re-conditioned Vijai hub taken from a fully restored Indian import - the new owner had decided to upgrade to a hydraulic disc brake and as such, this hub has not been used since it was re-built. This has saved me some work and expense

I have fitted new steering dampers (none came with the scooter). I have decided upon the larger late Vijai type.

I'm really pleased at how the whole fork/mudguard/wheel assembly looks now it's back together.

I'm also pleased that I've worked out how to size my photos better so that they appear larger

Parts used:

1x pair front dampers (AFR brand) - made in India for AF Rayspeed (AFR). These are identical replicas of late Vijai dampers.
1x pair front hub nuts/washers (SIL brand)
1x Complete SIL Vijai front hub (reconditioned)

Regards
Ed
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Old 10th May 2011, 02:16   #43
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Default Re: Kelvinator Avanti RUSToration in the UK

Hi all.

A change of plan. I've had a re-think about the engine spec for the Kelvinator. Up until the last few days I've been committed to keeping the series 2/Lamby carb, exhaust, air-box set up that the scooter originally had.

I had hoped that my local scooter tuning experts (AF Rayspeed) might be able to tune the scooter up and still keep the carb/exhaust set up in place. After consulting with AF Rayspeed at length however, they state that due to the restrictive nature of these components, any gain from tuning work would be negligable with a top end of around 50mph if I'm lucky

I've now decided to up rate the engine to Vijay spec and then to have it tuned a little further (probably stage 4) in order to give a more realistic speed for UK roads. I've been in the garage tonight and swapped the original airbox assembly and scoop for that of a Vijay ready for the new engine spec.

Parts used;

1x reconditioned Vijay (original SIL) airbox assembly
1x New SIL Vijay air scoop
1x New SIL air scoop gasket
1x New Steelbird air filter

Regards
Ed
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Old 19th May 2011, 15:16   #44
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Hi folks, I haven't been on here for a while and didn't know Edsuede had started a thread dedicated to his 'Kelv'.
Very interesting that the Kelv is made from an API tubular frame and Series 3 loop. I reckon this must have been Kelvinator buying up and using some surplus parts once API had finished. What do you think?
I wonder why Kelvinator changed so many things such as the ribbed tool box door. Seems strange to go to the extremes of changing the original presses just for an aesthetic effect.

Edsuede, to restore paint/remove other paint, I use Forecla G3 compound, not T cut which is apparently very abrasive.

Incidentally, I have just returned from my annual trip to the flanders battlefields. The Allwyn was brilliant and clad in its military theme drew a lot of attention. Fantastic scootering roads and countryside.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 19th May 2011, 15:18   #45
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Ed, I will be over in Filey for spring bank. Any chance we could meet up so I can have a look at the project?
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