1927 Mercedes 680K Supercharged in Delhi....

[awini]

Originally Posted by sat

Attached are images of the 1928 type K, open tourer which were taken in the mid 80's.

The yellow colour was a kind of anti rust. One can see a little of the original upholstery.



with headlights removed for road trials..

this is the state in which i first saw this car, in about early 1994, in delhi.in the dark ,the yellow looked like what i thought was patinated original paint, i sort of liked the shade.it suits the car

[liv2drv]

er... i never said Dt bought it. i just said it was for sale. You got me confused with someone else. i suggest you go through the thread... haha

[liv2drv]

i see where you got it from now that i went through the thread myself, but i ony said that because other members said he bought it. sorry

[speedy]

no problem liv2drv. as long as we have not bought the car and we now know what the exact model is. its all good.

[V-16]

After a lot of deliberation and Mercedes model searching and hunting it would be safe to arrive at a conclusion that this misnomer of a 680K which was never made is a misnomer. The car in question is a poorly put together Mercedes 100/140 and not a 680K.
The "K" in the model was not meant to represent a supercharged car but "Kurzer Radstand" i.e. "Short wheel base" in Germany.
Also The S usually had two, three-pointed stars, without circles, stamped on the either side of the radiator center crease, (like this Delhi car has) one on each side and most SS cars had the blue and white enamel M-B badge centered on the crease that is because the merger between Mercedes and Benz had not come through. After the Merger the cars were called Mercedes Benz and sported the star with the ring in Blue and white enamel.
There is in fact very little difference between the K and the SS models but the one in the pictures can be safely said to be the Type24,100/140K or the Mercedes 24/100/140 and maybe between 1924-1926-27. Also, there is no mention or proof of a version called the 680K made ever by Mercedes.
Comments welcome please.

[Julian UK]

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But the Delhi car is as you say a Type 24/100/140.

[DKG]

As I recall from what I've read the Model K was introduced in 1926 and lasted through 1927. The Model K was always a 6.3ltr, single carb six and had a supercharger. The K was essentially a shortened 24/100/140 and K meant "Kurz" or short.

The Model K was replaced by the Model S in 1927. It had a larger 6.8 litre engine and double carbs and super charging. More importantly the S corrected the horrendous handling of the K by a lowered chassis and the engine being moved back in the chassis.

Later in 1928 the S was further bored out to 7 ltrs and weight reduction was achieved leading to the SS being launched. The S and SS featured 4 seater coachwork and were stunningly beautiful cars that also handled very well. I have a picture of a gorgeous SS with Prince Azamjah of Hyderabad, his wife Princess Durreshevar and the baby Mukkaramjah in her arms sitting it the backseat of the car. But as these were not ideal for racing in 1928 the legendary SSK was launched (as few as 31 cars were made). This was a further shortened chassis and was an impressive sports/racing car

The final version of this series was the SSKL, only six were made and all only for factory racing teams. Essentially the SSKL had drilled holes in chassis for further weight reduction.

Much of what I recall are from the book The Magnificent Mercedes by Graham Robson. Will refer to the book once again and give more specific details of these models.

Basically the car in quesiton in Delhi should correctly be referred to as Model K. Its either a 1926 or 1927 as the K didn't exist in 1928.

The engine has to be a 6.3 ltr unit (if the guys who overhauled the engine claim its the 98mm bore implying a 6.8 ltr unit then obviously someone modified a 6.8 ltr Model S unit and installed the single carb manifold, which would further render the car a hodge podge)

Lets hope the car is a genuine 26/27 Model K (unaltered)and hope the owner agrees

[DKG]

Originally Posted by V-16

There is in fact very little difference between the K and the SS models

Compared to the K the S was a considerably lowered chassis and the engine moved back almost 12 inches. It also had a bigger 6.8 ltr with dual carbs as opposed to 6.3 ltr for the K with single carb.

The SS was further bored out to 7 ltrs and was reduced in weight compared to the S

I will refer some books and post detailed accounts of all of these cars for reference

[V-16]

Originally Posted by DKG

As I recall from what I've read the Model K was introduced in 1926 and lasted through 1927.

You are right, even though Supercharged this could not be called the official "K" model as the suffix "K" for Kurz or short was in fact introduced in 1926

Originally Posted by DKG

Basically the car in quesiton in Delhi should correctly be referred to as Model K. Its either a 1926 or 1927 as the K didn't exist in 1928....

further render the car a hodge podge

Lets hope the car is a genuine 26/27 Model K (unaltered)and hope the owner agrees

cant say about the correctness of the car as it is a hodge podge. The wire wheels were never there in 24 and even 26 and there are so many disimilarities
The owner wont agree coz he thinks it is a non existant model of the merc.

Originally Posted by DKG

I will refer some books and post detailed accounts of all of these cars for reference

not necessary buddy as we are discussing the car in delhi. Dont think we need to go into details of the SS and the SSK because the delhi car may be niether.

[sat]

The engine has to be a 6.3 ltr unit (if the guys who overhauled the engine claim its the 98mm bore implying a 6.8 ltr unit then obviously someone modified a 6.8 ltr Model S unit and installed the single carb manifold, which would further render the car a hodge podge)

I worked on this car in the 80's & know the car very well, down to every nut & bolt, I can confirm that the engine is not a 6.3 ltr but a 6.8 lts engine. Had measured the bore myself. The car engine was opened for the 1st time since the 30's. I still remember the day when the cylinder head & sump cover was removed, engine was in superb condition, odometer mileage - 10,800 miles.
If it has a bore of 94mm I do not think it would be able to produce 100/180 bhp as is mentioned on the plate in the engine bay. (have posted these details in earlier post)

I have also seen a letter from mercedes benz in the mid 80's to confirm that it is a car they put together in 1928. Had a copy of this letter but cannot find it.. M Benz probably had a K chasis in which they put a S engine with a single carb for this open tourer.

Best is if someone writes to benz to confirm & put all the confusion to rest.

sat

[DKG]

Originally Posted by sat

I worked on this car in the 80's & know the car very well, down to every nut & bolt, I can confirm that the engine is not a 6.3 ltr but a 6.8 lts engine. Had measured the bore myself. The car engine was opened for the 1st time since the 30's. I still remember the day when the cylinder head & sump cover was removed, engine was in superb condition, odometer mileage - 10,800 miles.
If it has a bore of 94mm I do not think it would be able to produce 100/180 bhp as is mentioned on the plate in the engine bay. (have posted these details in earlier post)

I have also seen a letter from mercedes benz in the mid 80's to confirm that it is a car they put together in 1928. Had a copy of this letter but cannot find it.. M Benz probably had a K chasis in which they put a S engine with a single carb for this open tourer.

Best is if someone writes to benz to confirm & put all the confusion to rest.

sat

Very interesting Sat. Considering the K was dynamically flawed and replaced by the superior S why would such a car as this be produced even as a one off? Its an acknowledged fact the K was a hair raising ride. Why would anyone special order a K with an S engine and still go back to single carb? It just seems too odd don't you think?

Please don't think I am questioning anything you've said. Just sounds too weird that Mercedes would do something like this. By the way do you have the engine number of this car?

[sat]

dmk,

It is strange why anyone would order a K with an S engine with a single carb.
I met the late Raja's wife last year to listen to stories of how the family would go for shikar, picnics & what the supercharger sounded like, spine tingling for sure.. the late Raja's wife, now in her 80's, confirmed to me that the car was purchased in Lucknow but in 30/31. Unlikely that the car was in the showroom for that long, She could not recollect who the car was purchased from but the late raja was probably the 2nd owner.

The following are the details for the 1928 mercedes benz, open tourer, type k in New Delhi.

A small metal plate on the left side of the engine.

MERCEDES
DAIMLER MOTOREN GESSELLSCHAFT
NO 68617

Below the dash on the board which separates the engine bay & dash board.

DAIMLER BENZ AKTIENGESSELLESCHAFT
WERKUNTERDRAHEIM

MOTOR NO 68617 BEST NO MOT. 1391
WAGEN NO 35445 BEST NO WAG 1392
COM. NO. 41346 WAG-GEW NO.
HUBRAUM 6740 LEISTUNG PS 100/180

sat

[DKG]

Thanks SAT

I have a friend who worked for Daimler Benz, have given him the info and we'll have full clarity once he gets back with the correct picture.

It most certainly would be wonderful if its confirmed that this is in fact a rare Model K specially commisioned with an S engine from the factory. If that is the case then the single carb job on this engine would make this an even more interesting order assuming it was delivered from the factory so. Interesting!

[vintageman]

Hello All

I understand 2 of these cars which were picked up from Lucknow - one from the city and the other the Rajas estate , my information , from people who remember the cars - is that there were 2 cars - one had a single carb and the other had dual carbs .

Were the 2 combined to give a final product ??

Its too way back in history for anyone to remember correctly , will try to trace the facts .

[DKG]

Two aspects of the data given by SAT point to the possibility of a special order.

The COM no. apparently relates to commisioned series

The Power rating of 100/180 is odd for a K. If I recall they developed 160 ps supercharged.

Once all the numbers are correctly interpreted then perhaps the truth about this car will emerge.