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Old 11th July 2013, 17:01   #31
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

I might point out that usually whitewall tyres are seen on Springfield LHD Rolls Royces ( essentially american) cars and very seldom on Derby RR. These are seldom seen on any Bristish RR cars. Original RR and their owners took an inner pride in being staid and understated (as in not fancy). Most Maharajas took their cues from the English at least for choice of tyres.
Having said that, whitewalls are perhaps the best accessory to a car of this era for show as they bring in the wow factor. But buy a set of Black wall straight tread for true nostalgia. ( 33X5 I think). The thinner tyres make the steering light and sharp, which these cars need more than anything else.

What are the lines on the bonnet for?
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Old 11th July 2013, 20:17   #32
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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
I might point out that usually whitewall tyres are seen on Springfield LHD Rolls Royces ( essentially american) cars and very seldom on Derby RR. These are seldom seen on any Bristish RR cars. Original RR and their owners took an inner pride in being staid and understated (as in not fancy). Most Maharajas took their cues from the English at least for choice of tyres.
Having said that, whitewalls are perhaps the best accessory to a car of this era for show as they bring in the wow factor. But buy a set of Black wall straight tread for true nostalgia. ( 33X5 I think). The thinner tyres make the steering light and sharp, which these cars need more than anything else.

What are the lines on the bonnet for?
I agree with Shyml on the tyres - but looks like Srivardhan has already sourced them

The only Maharaja R-R that I can remember with original spec white walls is the Bikanir PII 91XJ.

Shyml - would you send me an email please ? Thanks

Last edited by travancore : 11th July 2013 at 20:18.
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Old 11th July 2013, 20:40   #33
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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
I might point out that usually whitewall tyres are seen on Springfield LHD Rolls Royces ( essentially american) cars and very seldom on Derby RR. These are seldom seen on any Bristish RR cars. Original RR and their owners took an inner pride in being staid and understated (as in not fancy). Most Maharajas took their cues from the English at least for choice of tyres.
Having said that, whitewalls are perhaps the best accessory to a car of this era for show as they bring in the wow factor. But buy a set of Black wall straight tread for true nostalgia. ( 33X5 I think). The thinner tyres make the steering light and sharp, which these cars need more than anything else.

What are the lines on the bonnet for?
A black wall believer for the high end English marques

While walls just add a blah blah factor to these cars .

Cheers
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Old 12th July 2013, 00:05   #34
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

One cannot go wrong with maroon leather. However in 1994 I restored a 1930 Chrysler Model 77, in Green and silver with green leather interior and beige Double Duck canvas top. (It was a winning combination selected by family ladies. My nephews Ahmad and Maaz in the picture)
Usually the fenders are dark and body light.

I have a bit of experience in such restorations and I must suggest something I always planned and was unable to put in practice myself: Plan the restoration ahead to the end with timelines. It proved impossible in Pakistan wherever outside vendors were involved e.g bodywork and paint.

For example, unless it is intact , the temperature gauge would take at least three months to make functional. It is Ether filled and I had to send one to UK for a satisfactory re filling after I cut the tube! I would send it now if I was the owner/restorer.
Similarly you have to acquire the few rubber parts like flex coupling between clutch and gearbox and of course an Enots oil gun. No can fabricate locally pl.

This car has an iron head which is a blessing as aluminium heads on later P-I have severe corrosion problems.
I do not understand a cutaway steering, except on aircraft which have a limited travel. A phantom has a bear of a steering and one turns with both hands, in a proper one hand feeding and other taking it up in increments at slow speeds. People with the bad habit of using the inside of the steering soon realize why it is a bad habit! Your arm gets caught in the very protruding central boss with horn and other control levers.

I would go back to the proper full steering. For all but the tallest the steering obstructs some of the view but one can manage if one looks ahead at a distance. Then neither the flying lady nor the steering in noticable.
I read in the forum of RREC that average height of the english men in the World War era was 5ft 4 in and they drove these cars with panache. Also explains the cramped accomodations in most of the cars driver area. Best to raise the seat cushion. You should consider a cutaway in the cushion, as done by some coach builders, for free access to the gear lever.

I must say the body contours are excellent and it should be a looker. I hope my way ahead tips get your juices flowing to expedite the work and start driving a fine car such as yours.
Administrator & Mr Travencore, I do not know how to send you my e-mail so I am just giving it here shyml@hotmail.com. Pl remove if forum rules dont allow.
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1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-1930-chrysler-77-reduced-size-pic.jpg  

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Old 12th July 2013, 10:31   #35
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
Having said that, whitewalls are perhaps the best accessory to a car of this era for show as they bring in the wow factor.......

What are the lines on the bonnet for?
Thanks to Shrivardhan, I was able to spend time with him and got to see this car in person.

The 21 inch new whitewall tyres have been procured. Considering the cost and and the fact that wow effect is liked by the owner, I guess they will remain.

The lines in the bonnet are because of the wood paneling. The wood work is absolutely brilliant. As Shrivardhan pointed out the wood panels get wider as it moves towards the back and also the slope of the cowl had to be considered for the alignment. The bonnet metal is very weak and hence polished finished is ruled out.

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I do not understand a cutaway steering, .................

I would go back to the proper full steering.
Shrivardhan confirms that he has an original full steering wheel and the cut one is just there for the moment.

Thanks Shrivardhan for meeting and openly sharing all the details of this car and also taking the trouble of showing all your cars.

Cheers

KPS

Last edited by KPS : 12th July 2013 at 10:33.
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Old 12th July 2013, 11:41   #36
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Dear Friends and Seniors,

Please advice me with the colour combination. Although the painting stage is very far away at the moment. I am still struggling with the coachwork, and its periferies. This is a dream restoration (ressurection), but the course is no less than a nightmare.

Everything looks is place, and the final denting has started. Mechanicals would be touched once the coachwork is ready. Post the coachwork, I would dismantle all the body parts in peaces and start the paintwork, samultaneously restoring the running chassis mechanically.

However, please keep suggesting the colour combination, keeping in mind that the top wooden portion , as you can see, would be polished.

If all goes well, this car should meet the roads by 2014 end..

Please keep suggesting and add value to this project..

Regards,

Shrivardhan.
Hello

Another great restoration thread and we all appreciate the patience and dedication required.

Do share the chassis number as suggested earlier.

1. What was the original colour, colour combination? That could be the obvious option for the sake of originality.

2. The body, the sheer size of the car and the wood bonnet with the lines, reminds me of Italian cruisers on the Mediterranean coast. Proper showboat without any negative connotations.

Instead of a colourful body, and there are plenty of cars in all shades of blues, greens, ochre and the works, so this would be one more, may I suggest an white/eggshell body, polished wood all around and chrome where befitting. The white wall tyres would look great too with that combination. 20 foot cruiser on wheels.
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Old 12th July 2013, 14:48   #37
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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May I suggest an white/eggshell body, polished wood all around and chrome where befitting. The white wall tyres would look great too with that combination. 20 foot cruiser on wheels.
Though I earlier veto'd a white body, it just struck me that with the woodwork it may look rather nice. Refer this Jodhpur car as reference

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-img_0396.jpg

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-img_6929.jpg
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Old 12th July 2013, 23:11   #38
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

My two bits worth is that the Jodhpur car has the bonnet painted as sham wood. Pl check the gap between the radiator and the bonnet when viewed from the driver seat. It is exactly as in an aluminium bonnet and does not have any wood pasted on top. This was quite common and sham canning ( painted to look like it was covered in woven cane, was done on door sides etc.)
Wood clading the bonnet would make it quite heavy for normal operation.

Pl understand that in a P-I, you have to raise the near side( left) bonnet everytime you start the car in the morning as you have to open the tap of fuel just behind the vaccum tank. Also the off side one to check the oil level.

I would suggest you do the wood work to fininsh and then get an expert to paint the bonnet and scuttle in exact match.

You will also realise the high craftmanship and art of the coach builders of the 1930's. From the quality of work so far on this project, I am sure you can source such a painter.
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Old 14th July 2013, 02:19   #39
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
My two bits worth is that the Jodhpur car has the bonnet painted as sham wood. Pl check the gap between the radiator and the bonnet when viewed from the driver seat. It is exactly as in an aluminium bonnet and does not have any wood pasted on top. This was quite common and sham canning ( painted to look like it was covered in woven cane, was done on door sides etc.)
Shyml is absolutely correct. Faux painting was popular in the 1920's - typically Oak wood grain, sham caning etc.

Two famous India cars with "painted wood" were the Bhopal Hunting Bentley 6.5 Ltr (oil imitation of wood); and the Hyderabad RR PI 74OR (believe the original finish was "Oak")

Read more here, courtesy of RREC:
http://www.rrec.org.uk/Cars/Coachwor...and_Others.php

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And doesn't Bhogilal have one too ?

I still see "Woody" PT Cruisers etc, so realistic looking wood "coverings" are probably still being made.

Last edited by travancore : 14th July 2013 at 02:25.
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Old 15th September 2013, 17:53   #40
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

Shrivardhan, what are the chassis/engine numbers ? (stamped on the firewall plate & on the timing case lips at the foot of the distributor)
Keep up the good work. Andre Blaize
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Old 15th September 2013, 21:54   #41
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Shrivardhan, what are the chassis/engine numbers ? (stamped on the firewall plate & on the timing case lips at the foot of the distributor)
Keep up the good work. Andre Blaize
I don't think he can give that to you as the car is of no pedigree but completely fabricated so the authenticity is a mystery . Unless its got a new story today. That what I gathered by talks with many and the owner himself that he found it in bits and pieces ?

Cheers

Last edited by kasli : 15th September 2013 at 22:01.
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Old 16th September 2013, 12:02   #42
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

Hi kasli,

The chassis and engine would still bear their respective numbers, in fact they would help trace the history of both. Today some cars do have engines different from what was originally on the chassis, its upto the owner whether he wishes to share details on a public platform.
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Old 16th September 2013, 14:09   #43
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

Bulldogji

I agree but on repeated occasion told that he is unaware or does not know .. in anyway sharing is to left for the person to be willing.

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Hi kasli,

The chassis and engine would still bear their respective numbers, in fact they would help trace the history of both. Today some cars do have engines different from what was originally on the chassis, its upto the owner whether he wishes to share details on a public platform.
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Old 16th September 2013, 20:03   #44
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

Dear Friends,

@ Mr. Blaize - Unfortunately there are no numbers on the car as both the firewall and the engine was bought by my Father from a scrap dealer (mullik bazaar) or/and even gifted to him by my Maternal Grandfather Late.H.C.Agarwal. Neither my Dad not my Grandfather are alive to share the specific source and this matter is now 50 years old. But it is for certain that these parts were arranged locally as scrap. As said by them , in those days such parts were easily available as scrap. Later on my Father had bought other ancillary parts such as carburettors , magneto, etc. etc. from an 'x' mechanic of French Motors, as they used to stock huge stock of RR parts. This 'x' mechanic had a huge stock of RR parts post his retirement , including tools, etc. , and my Dad bought it all as a lot in early seventies. Therefore although the engine was ceased, it was completed and mounted on the chassis, for better preservation. The chassis plate on the firewall is missing, and the engine number is grazed (as said to be the usual practice in those days for selling as scrap).

Friends,

I disagree on the point that the car has no pedigree, and is completely fabricated. I simply could not fabricate the drive terrain , and as said earlier I have huge amount of RR cosmetic spares suiting this car . One can call this car re-bodied. Nor am I making any stories that this car was owned by this maharaja or that, I am very proudly proclaiming this is my car and is 'Coachbuilt by ME'. As far as the work done on the car, as an example RR experts could even get down to the door hinges and see the level of originality chased. If Barker or Hooper could coachbuild a car why not you or me? , its all about human skills.

The good news is that as on date the coachwork is complete, including the aluminium wheel disc covers, bumpers, etc. etc. , the car is being stripped back to chassis for mechanicals shortly. Its already been 1 year and few months, but still there are many stones to be turned.

Kindly fill in advices if any.

Attaching latest pics.

Warm Regards ,
Shrivardhan..
Attached Thumbnails
1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-img_20130911_113427.jpg  

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-img_20130911_113452.jpg  

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-img_20130911_113439.jpg  

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Old 16th September 2013, 21:01   #45
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Originally Posted by Shrivardhan View Post
Dear Friends,

@ Mr. Blaize - Unfortunately there are no numbers on the car as both the firewall and the engine was bought by my Father from a scrap dealer (mullik bazaar) or/and even gifted to him by my Maternal Grandfather Late.H.C.Agarwal. Neither my Dad not my Grandfather are alive to share the specific source and this matter is now 50 years old. But it is for certain that these parts were arranged locally as scrap. As said by them , in those days such parts were easily available as scrap. Later on my Father had bought other ancillary parts such as carburettors , magneto, etc. etc. from an 'x' mechanic of French Motors, as they used to stock huge stock of RR parts. This 'x' mechanic had a huge stock of RR parts post his retirement , including tools, etc. , and my Dad bought it all as a lot in early seventies. Therefore although the engine was ceased, it was completed and mounted on the chassis, for better preservation. The chassis plate on the firewall is missing, and the engine number is grazed (as said to be the usual practice in those days for selling as scrap).

Friends,

I disagree on the point that the car has no pedigree, and is completely fabricated. I simply could not fabricate the drive terrain , and as said earlier I have huge amount of RR cosmetic spares suiting this car . One can call this car re-bodied. Nor am I making any stories that this car was owned by this maharaja or that, I am very proudly proclaiming this is my car and is 'Coachbuilt by ME'. As far as the work done on the car, as an example RR experts could even get down to the door hinges and see the level of originality chased. If Barker or Hooper could coachbuild a car why not you or me? , its all about human skills.

The good news is that as on date the coachwork is complete, including the aluminium wheel disc covers, bumpers, etc. etc. , the car is being stripped back to chassis for mechanicals shortly. Its already been 1 year and few months, but still there are many stones to be turned.

Kindly fill in advices if any.

Attaching latest pics.

Warm Regards ,
Shrivardhan..
Thanks but still on an expensive car like this even at that time mechanics 'X' Or 'Z' would not delete out the engine number but as you say so then OK !

So we await and see the result of the Kanoria Coachbuilders Ltd of Calcutta , India

Cheers
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