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Old 16th September 2013, 21:32   #46
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Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
Keep up the good work. Andre Blaize
Dear Mr.Blaize,

Since you are an authority on RRs, I would ask you for a favour. At the moment I am consulting a few books, pictures attached, which have skeletal information. Bulldogji has been very kind in gifting me the deep blue book, which is of great use. However, I am looking for a comprehensive workshop manual pertaining to P1s, with respect to engine dismantling, rebuild and assembly, brakes,suspension,steering overall, tuning and setting. A step by step procedure would ensure best results for this project. I would be great full if you could arrange for me the needful. Hearing from you soon,

Warm regards,
Shrivardhan.

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Thanks but still on an expensive car like this even at that time mechanics 'X' Or 'Z' would not delete out the engine number but as you say so then OK !

So we await and see the result of the Kanoria Coachbuilders Ltd of Calcutta , India

Cheers
Could have been the case if the car was a complete car. But here we are talking about parts sourced as scrap, or scrap sold for reuse. Even today Kolkata Mullik bazaar sells many Diesel engines in dozens with blanked engine numbers targeting people looking for replacement engines. Those days were different you no since RR and other great marks were scrapped as any modern car of today. How I wish the numbers were present anyway, but ultimately it's about the car.

Anirudhji, on viewing these pictures, your eye for detail, I'm sure you are a cook good enough to judge how the food is goin to taste.

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta-image.jpg

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 21st September 2013 at 20:50. Reason: Consecutive posts
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Old 16th September 2013, 22:05   #47
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

Shrivardhan, I'll see what I can do. Please send me your e-mail in a private message and I'll give you several useful web addresses and professional contacts.
I hoped you'd have come across new numbers while working on the chassis. I'm sure you'll discover the engine number somewhere, it was stamped in several places, I'll try to make a list.
Best, Andre

Last edited by park-ward : 16th September 2013 at 22:26.
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Old 17th September 2013, 04:14   #48
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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Originally Posted by Shrivardhan View Post
But here we are How I wish the numbers were present anyway, but ultimately it's about the car.

Anirudhji, on viewing these pictures, your eye for detail, I'm sure you are a cook good enough to judge how the food is goin to taste.
Dear Shrivardhan,

The dish looks like it is simmering along quite well. I am impressed with how "authentic" it looks.

Matching numbers or not, it is a commendable effort! There is nothing wrong with resurrecting a work of art (or in this case, uniting many pieces of it). And your candor is much appreciated - way too many "histories" are created with purely Dollars and cents in mind.

Now that the French Motor Car Co, Simpsons etc are no longer in the trade, maybe some day "Kanoria Coachworks" will be listed among prominent 21st Century coach builders!

Go forth bravely and prosper

Last edited by travancore : 17th September 2013 at 04:27.
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Old 17th September 2013, 12:21   #49
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Dear Shrivardhan,

The dish looks like it is simmering along quite well. I am impressed with how "authentic" it looks.

Matching numbers or not, it is a commendable effort! There is nothing wrong with resurrecting a work of art (or in this case, uniting many pieces of it). And your candor is much appreciated - way too many "histories" are created with purely Dollars and cents in mind.

Now that the French Motor Car Co, Simpsons etc are no longer in the trade, maybe some day "Kanoria Coachworks" will be listed among prominent 21st Century coach builders!

Go forth bravely and prosper
Travancore , has so rightly said the above,
Great Effort, it looks marvelous !!
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Old 18th September 2013, 03:01   #50
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Dear Shrivardhan,

I have complete set of pictures of an engine strip down and re assembly taken when I cleaned out the engine and gearbox of 45WR . I am compiling a book, essentially a diary of the entire project , for which I had photographed the entire steps. I can send you the pictures ( 2000+ equaling approx 9 GB ) and you can go through these, which will give you a lot of insight and for sure you would need to refer to these in re assembly.

2. I had collected all the relevant printed technical material on PI's before I started and most useful is the owners manual. I also have the RROC compiled technical notes issued by RR at various times to its service agents. etc.

3. There were certain operations which were not described anywhere and I have written the instructions for these as well as improved the instructions given in the various manuals, including where ever possible the type and size of spanner needed and extra hints. The only things I have not done are the brake servo and the crank vibration damper as there was no need. Also gearbox to differential was clean as a whistle so not touched.

4. I can tune pre war cars with one hand tied behind my back so I can write easy instructions for you there too, if needed. Its not very difficult, provided you unlearn common mechanic/old wives tales and stick to the RR instructions.

5. RR's have delicate finely made engine/ components and only people with sympathetic attitude towards mechanical things should attempt. Over tightening of nuts and bolts is an ailment I think common to the subcontinent and must be avoided at all costs. A good torque wrench is a must.

6. English WW ( Whit worth spanners fit). You Must source the Enots oil gun and nipples etc.


If you want any of the above ( S.No 5 & 6 excluded) I think best is for you to send me your postal address so I can mail you photocopies and DVDs of the pictures ( for your personal use only till I can publish my book, for which holding your breath would not be a good idea.)

I have restored, worked on and kept many magnificent original cars with original everything. Let me put it on record that I envy you the freedom that kismet has dealt you by giving you an unhindered license to build a Rolls Royce from a Meccano set of RR parts, per se, without having any remorse or guilt one can get tampering with an original. You have my admiration and relentless support in your project.


From the looks of your fender lamps and the provision for a spot lamp post on the right fender, you are going in the direction of an all Grebel set up. Hope you have sourced the 12" Grebels for your car. Otherwise may I suggest Lucas P100 DB headlamps. Buying the Lucas lamps will give you a nose bleed and the Grebels are best tackled sitting down.

In my opinion the bumper is a definite no no. Pre war RR are best without a bumper. One Bahawalpur PI Chassis 39MC , wearing its 2nd body circa 1934 has a Barker bumper fitted. Its a very slender job. I think anything more would not be right.

Once again, to my eye, the roof line needs revision being too high at the rear. I would copy one exactly from a tourer of circa 1929-30. The one on Hoopers 76WJ is unique and nice.

Do check out various Auster rear screens designs with folding wind wings as a possible replacement for the current one.

I think the coachwork lines are extremely well done and very proportionate and pleasing to the eye. Build quality looks to be at par with the best. Very well done and I wish I had done it.
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Old 18th September 2013, 19:38   #51
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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
Dear Shrivardhan,

I have complete set of pictures of an engine strip down and re assembly taken when I cleaned out the engine and gearbox of 45WR . I am compiling a book, essentially a diary of the entire project , for which I had photographed the entire steps. I can send you the pictures ( 2000+ equaling approx 9 GB ) and you can go through these, which will give you a lot of insight and for sure you would need to refer to these in re assembly.

2. I had collected all the relevant printed technical material on PI's before I started and most useful is the owners manual. I also have the RROC compiled technical notes issued by RR at various times to its service agents. etc.

3. There were certain operations which were not described anywhere and I have written the instructions for these as well as improved the instructions given in the various manuals, including where ever possible the type and size of spanner needed and extra hints. The only things I have not done are the brake servo and the crank vibration damper as there was no need. Also gearbox to differential was clean as a whistle so not touched.

4. I can tune pre war cars with one hand tied behind my back so I can write easy instructions for you there too, if needed. Its not very difficult, provided you unlearn common mechanic/old wives tales and stick to the RR instructions.

5. RR's have delicate finely made engine/ components and only people with sympathetic attitude towards mechanical things should attempt. Over tightening of nuts and bolts is an ailment I think common to the subcontinent and must be avoided at all costs. A good torque wrench is a must.

6. English WW ( Whit worth spanners fit). You Must source the Enots oil gun and nipples etc.


If you want any of the above ( S.No 5 & 6 excluded) I think best is for you to send me your postal address so I can mail you photocopies and DVDs of the pictures ( for your personal use only till I can publish my book, for which holding your breath would not be a good idea.)

I have restored, worked on and kept many magnificent original cars with original everything. Let me put it on record that I envy you the freedom that kismet has dealt you by giving you an unhindered license to build a Rolls Royce from a Meccano set of RR parts, per se, without having any remorse or guilt one can get tampering with an original. You have my admiration and relentless support in your project.


From the looks of your fender lamps and the provision for a spot lamp post on the right fender, you are going in the direction of an all Grebel set up. Hope you have sourced the 12" Grebels for your car. Otherwise may I suggest Lucas P100 DB headlamps. Buying the Lucas lamps will give you a nose bleed and the Grebels are best tackled sitting down.

In my opinion the bumper is a definite no no. Pre war RR are best without a bumper. One Bahawalpur PI Chassis 39MC , wearing its 2nd body circa 1934 has a Barker bumper fitted. Its a very slender job. I think anything more would not be right.

Once again, to my eye, the roof line needs revision being too high at the rear. I would copy one exactly from a tourer of circa 1929-30. The one on Hoopers 76WJ is unique and nice.

Do check out various Auster rear screens designs with folding wind wings as a possible replacement for the current one.

I think the coachwork lines are extremely well done and very proportionate and pleasing to the eye. Build quality looks to be at par with the best. Very well done and I wish I had done it.
Dear Sir,

Thank for the compliments .. I am unable to PM you sir as your status shows 'newbie', thereby disabling messages. I would be great full if you could post me a copy of all the manuals,pictures,data of any kind pertaining to this car. Kindly spell me your email ID wherein I could send in my postal address, unless PM gets activated.

Warm regards and thanks for your support,
Shrivardhan.
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Old 19th September 2013, 14:23   #52
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Default Re: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 @ Calcutta

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The good news is that as on date the coachwork is complete, including the aluminium wheel disc covers, bumpers, etc.
As others have said, the car is shaping up very nicely, proportions look very pleasing.

As already highlighted, the roof frame does look a bit of eyesore. But a bigger put-off for me are the bumpers. I'm sure there is plenty of finishing still to be done, but I would urge you to try out a much slimmer style, or as shyml put it, to delete them altogether. To be honest I do like the black tubular ones seen on many cars in Calcutta too. I am a big fan of wheel discs, and these look superb. How were they fabricated? Beaten by hand, turned on a lathe, pressed?

Perhaps the fitting of the running board to the rear fender could use some finishing. And are you fitting a partition screen / dual cowl set up? A partition on a convertible would seem odd. I can see interesting dash details, can you share a clear image? Also consider fabricating a pair of cowl vents - so typical of colonial Rollers.

And lastly I would lose the 'cut' steering wheel - was never a fan, and I am sure it will make driving such a large car a complete chore!
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Old 19th September 2013, 19:06   #53
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As others have said, the car is shaping up very nicely, proportions look very pleasing.

As already highlighted, the roof frame does look a bit of eyesore. But a bigger put-off for me are the bumpers. I'm sure there is plenty of finishing still to be done, but I would urge you to try out a much slimmer style, or as shyml put it, to delete them altogether. To be honest I do like the black tubular ones seen on many cars in Calcutta too. I am a big fan of wheel discs, and these look superb. How were they fabricated? Beaten by hand, turned on a lathe, pressed?

Perhaps the fitting of the running board to the rear fender could use some finishing. And are you fitting a partition screen / dual cowl set up? A partition on a convertible would seem odd. I can see interesting dash details, can you share a clear image? Also consider fabricating a pair of cowl vents - so typical of colonial Rollers.

And lastly I would lose the 'cut' steering wheel - was never a fan, and I am sure it will make driving such a large car a complete chore!
Dear Karl,

Thanks for the compliment. The hood frame is an original from and you could compare it to any Hooper bodied example. The height is looking rather elaborated due to the camera angle maybe. Definitely, the frame was in a very bad state and most of it is fabricated.

As Shaml pointed out the light setup is goin to be Grebals, along with a single grebal hunting light, although I have P100s as well.

The cowl vents have been fabricated and ready for nickel plating.

Yes, the wheel discs have been hand beaten on new aluminium sheet. I have one wheel disc pertaining to a 20/25hp, which is smaller. I used this as a guide to fabricate 21 inchers, including the back plates as well. The inner and outer rings for fitting are designed by me seeing pictures and then moulded.

Bumpers are originals from a 1922 Silver Ghost which shares the same chassis. My father had preserved these since long. However it's needs thorough restoration which has started.

The centre partition is my all time favourite and trust me would look osum. Cannot be a folding type as it would interfere with the occasional seat setup. There is much more to it.

The chassis incorporates double cowl brackets, and I have seven P1 rims, hence double cowl phaeton definitely. The centre fittings have been designed and fabricated.

The steering was cut by my Father earlier just for fun, however I have a brand new P1 steering in stock, which I would be subsequently fitting.

Warm Regards,
Shrivardhan.
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Old 20th September 2013, 09:40   #54
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Bumpers are originals from a 1922 Silver Ghost which shares the same chassis. My father had preserved these since long. However it's needs thorough restoration which has started.

The centre partition is my all time favourite and trust me would look osum. Cannot be a folding type as it would interfere with the occasional seat setup. There is much more to it.
I seriously doubt those bumpers would have been fitted new to a Ghost - or to any Rolls for that matter. They may have been adapted somewhere along the way. I would strongly suggest you reconsider, they look very heavy, and of a much later era, they will not suit the car.

Can you share images of what the partition set up will look like once completed? I cannot quite understand the set up.
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Old 20th September 2013, 18:43   #55
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I seriously doubt those bumpers would have been fitted new to a Ghost - or to any Rolls for that matter. They may have been adapted somewhere along the way. I would strongly suggest you reconsider, they look very heavy, and of a much later era, they will not suit the car.

Can you share images of what the partition set up will look like once completed? I cannot quite understand the set up.
Bumpers are from the South Indian 'silver' silver ghost
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Old 21st September 2013, 14:51   #56
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And are you fitting a partition screen / dual cowl set up? A partition on a convertible would seem odd.

!
Karl,

My Fiat, a seven seater convertible, has a centre glass division.

A Bentley with a friend also has a glass division on a convertible, which winds down completely when the top is lowered
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Old 21st September 2013, 15:07   #57
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Karl,

My Fiat, a seven seater convertible, has a centre glass division.

A Bentley with a friend also has a glass division on a convertible, which winds down completely when the top is lowered
A glass division I can understand, my apprehensions were towards a solid division (appears that way in the pics), and that too fixed.
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Old 21st September 2013, 15:12   #58
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A glass division I can understand, my apprehensions were towards a solid division (appears that way in the pics), and that too fixed.
Give him time and see the finished product. He is quite a perfectionist, end result should be pleasing, if a bit over the top, but its a car he has rebuilt from bits and pieces, so artiistic license may be granted
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Old 11th December 2013, 14:27   #59
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Dear Sir,

Thank for the compliments .. I am unable to PM you sir as your status shows 'newbie', thereby disabling messages. I would be great full if you could post me a copy of all the manuals,pictures,data of any kind pertaining to this car. Kindly spell me your email ID wherein I could send in my postal address, unless PM gets activated.

Warm regards and thanks for your support,
Shrivardhan.
Sorry I was totally occupied in my work at Karachi. I will be taking a few days off and will be at my Lahore residence where the documents etc are stored. Pl send your address and exactly which manuals you already have . Pl send me info on my pvt e mail : shyml@hotmail.com

Amer Ahmad
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Old 11th December 2013, 19:08   #60
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Sorry I was totally occupied in my work at Karachi. I will be taking a few days off and will be at my Lahore residence where the documents etc are stored. Pl send your address and exactly which manuals you already have . Pl send me info on my pvt e mail : shyml@hotmail.com

Amer Ahmad
Sent you the email sir.... Thank you....
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