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Old 13th April 2008, 21:34   #151
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Beautiful, He certainly had excellent taste. It would be interesting to find a picture of the third Alfa-Romeo. Was it also an 8C? I look forward to seeing Manwinder's excellent sounding book.

I found a couple more pictures of the Nizam's Siver Ghost throne car.
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Old 13th April 2008, 22:13   #152
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Beautiful, He certainly had excellent taste. It would be interesting to find a picture of the third Alfa-Romeo. Was it also an 8C? I look forward to seeing Manwinder's excellent sounding book.
The all black Alfa Romeo below was exhibited at the Meadowbrook Concours 2007 where it won Best of Show. The exhibit placard clearly mentions that the Maharaja of Indore was the first owner, and now owned by Ray Scherr of California. You don't get away with half facts at major Councours d' Elegances (let alone win Best of Show)

Julian, if you have access to any books on Gurney-Nutting or the Simon Moore book "The Immortal Alfa 2900" we could confirm the three cars.

Simon Moore's article on the Alfa Romeo "Two-Nine" in the Automotive Quarterly Vol 11 # 2 mentions the following two 2900's in India:

Chassis # 412019 Body by Touring: Delivered new to Indian Maharaja. Taken to Australia in early 1950's. When imported to the U.S. in 1969 by Jackson Brooks, car had done 7750 miles since new.
(Jackson Brooks recently published a book "Cars I Could've, Should've Kept" - looking for a copy)

Chassis # unknown: Touring Open Sports. Delivered new to the Maharani of Indore, given to her doctor, sold to the U.S. in 1970
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Old 14th April 2008, 02:23   #153
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There’s a copy of Simon Moore’s book "The Immortal Alfa 2900" available on amazon, Don’t hestitate! Buy now while stocks last!
Only $2,448.87 Second Hand!
Amazon.com: Used and New: Immortal 2.9: Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 A&B

"The third of the Holkar Alfa Romeos maybe a 1935 Gurney-Nutting Coupe mentioned on page 245 of Automobiles of the Maharajas"

If the third car was 1935 then it must be a 2900A, only 6 built?
Now $2,000,000?

Last edited by Julian UK : 14th April 2008 at 02:26.
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Old 14th April 2008, 04:35   #154
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
There’s a copy of Simon Moore’s book "The Immortal Alfa 2900" available on amazon, Don’t hestitate! Buy now while stocks last!
Only $2,448.87 Second Hand!
Amazon.com: Used and New: Immortal 2.9: Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 A&B

"The third of the Holkar Alfa Romeos maybe a 1935 Gurney-Nutting Coupe mentioned on page 245 of Automobiles of the Maharajas"

If the third car was 1935 then it must be a 2900A, only 6 built?
Now $2,000,000?
I think there were between 25 and 30 built of the 2900B's. Looks like all but 6 have Chassis #'s identified.

By the way saw a copy of "Automobiles of the Maharajas" on Ebay for approx. $167 - may be ending today
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Old 14th April 2008, 04:48   #155
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But they didn't make the B until 1937? so if its 1935 as you said, it must be an A?
Thanks for the tip, getting one brought from Delhi from our old book supplier for about Rs. 2500

Last edited by Julian UK : 14th April 2008 at 04:50.
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Old 14th April 2008, 05:01   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Here is a period picture of maybe the same car after it went to Karauli. Notice slight differences in the windshield header, running boards and white vs black steering wheel.
(source unknown)

Attachment 6427
The Idar Farman also went to Bharatpur ("Bharatpur 5"). The photos below show the Farman at Bharatpur and a snap of the Bharatpur Garages (Bentley Mk VI, Farman, RR Wraith)

Pictures are courtesy of Bonhams (the pictures are in "Flash" format, hence I cannot modify / enlarge). Also attaching the link - see if it works!

www.bonhams.co.uk/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=LotDetails&iSal eItemNo=3830041&iSaleNo=16337&iSaleSectionNo=2&sSe rver=http://images1.bonhams.com/&sPath=2008-01/17/7600544-3-5.jpg#
Link seems to work (Go to the bottom of the web page and pick the thumbnail you want to enlarge in the "Flash" window)

"Idar" Farman at Bharatpur (Licence: "Bharatpur 5")
Name:  Idar Farman period Frt 3Q.bmp
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Bharatpur Garages (L-R: Bentley MK VI, Farman, RR-Wraith)
Name:  Idar garage Period.bmp
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Name:  Idar garage Period large.bmp
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By the way, this Bharatpur Wraith (RJD-103) and a Twenty (RJD-105) are also shown in color in "Lives of the Indian Princes" (page 322) by Charles Allen/Sharada Dwivedi .

The same book also shows the Alwar Lanchester in color on page 150
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Old 14th April 2008, 13:33   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Here are some "period" photos of my car(s)!
Wow! Now that's some talent you have. Amazing. Why don't you post all your handiwork in the scale model thread or one for Vintage car scale models in this section (unless it exists)

I'm sure many others would love to read about how you go about creating all that detail. What materials you use, fabricating techniques etc
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Old 14th April 2008, 14:53   #158
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Hi,
Are you sure this is the same car? If you look at the distances of steering column to radiator, bulkhead to radiator and height of steering column they are all very different. maybe they attached the roof to another car as well as adding doors. No wonder they quoted a high price. It would involve rearranging the whole car. Twice or three times the amount of work than a simple restoration. All this is apparent from one side shot of the cars. If the whole car was inspected then heaven knows what else would materialize!
Whoops I thought I was sending a pm Over to you DKG
How rich were the Maharajas before Independence! Cars of the Maharajas-nizam-hyderabads-rolls-royce-throne-car3.jpg

Last edited by Julian UK : 14th April 2008 at 14:58.
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Old 14th April 2008, 17:03   #159
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Hi,
Are you sure this is the same car? If you look at the distances of steering column to radiator, bulkhead to radiator and height of steering column they are all very different
You won't believe it, I had the same doubt!!! The slats in the present car don't add up to those in the old picture. I inspected the car in detail and its apparent the car was rebodied in Hyderabad, but I was aghast that this may have gone far beyond just fenders being added.

I will post pictures soon of the Nizam's collection and we can have a detailed discussion on what all work they carried out

I agree if this car had been dramatically rebodied then the restoration cost will be frighteningly high considering a brand new body from the picture drawings would have to be fabricated
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Old 24th April 2008, 06:35   #160
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Since many of us seem to love cars and elephants, here are two views of a 1937 Packard Super Eight, body by Rollston (Maharaja of Gwalior)
Fodder for more fables....
(source: Michigan State University / Detroit Public Library)

How rich were the Maharajas before Independence! Cars of the Maharajas-gwalior-packard-1-med.jpg

How rich were the Maharajas before Independence! Cars of the Maharajas-gwalior-packard-2-large.jpg
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Old 24th April 2008, 09:53   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Since many of us seem to love cars and elephants, here are two views of a 1937 Packard Super Eight, body by Rollston (Maharaja of Gwalior)
That second picture is worth a million bucks! The car looks brand new there. Is the photo dated?
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Old 25th April 2008, 04:26   #162
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That second picture is worth a million bucks! The car looks brand new there. Is the photo dated?
Karlos, unfortunately, it is just dated "1937" - which would indeed make the car brand new.

I am attaching the link, unfortunately it is not a www. Search for Gwalior. Thanks
http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/search/results.cfm

Here is the complete description of the photo / car:

"8x10 black and white Packard Co. file photograph of eight 1937 Packard front view, four male servants posed on each side. Inscribed on photo back: Packard super eight, fifteenth series, model 1502, 8-cylinder, 135-horsepower, 139-inch wheelbase, 7-person special touring sedan, by Rollston, for his Highness the Maharaja of Gwalior (owned 10 Packards), note chromium plated radiator shell & headlamp housings, chromium plated wheels, special lamp in front of radiator, special siren at right of radiator, twin side mount mirrors, Packard deluxe emblem."

The second car from the right in the photo below (obviously 1950's) may be the same car (source: Time & Life Pictures / Getty Images)

Name:  Gwalior Packard Fleet.jpg
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Old 25th April 2008, 11:07   #163
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Karlos, unfortunately, it is just dated "1937" - which would indeed make the car brand new.

I am attaching the link, unfortunately it is not a www. Search for Gwalior. Thanks
http://mmm.lib.msu.edu/search/results.cfm

Here is the complete description of the photo / car:

"8x10 black and white Packard Co. file photograph of eight 1937 Packard front view, four male servants posed on each side. Inscribed on photo back: Packard super eight, fifteenth series, model 1502, 8-cylinder, 135-horsepower, 139-inch wheelbase, 7-person special touring sedan, by Rollston, for his Highness the Maharaja of Gwalior (owned 10 Packards), note chromium plated radiator shell & headlamp housings, chromium plated wheels, special lamp in front of radiator, special siren at right of radiator, twin side mount mirrors, Packard deluxe emblem."

The second car from the right in the photo below (obviously 1950's) may be the same car (source: Time & Life Pictures / Getty Images)

Attachment 10975

Sir, That's terrific sputnikking. There's a great deal of nostalgia attached, thanks.
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Old 25th April 2008, 11:43   #164
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Seeing this thread now only.
As a matter of fact, I have no respect for all those maharajas, who were very careless with money (which was never accumulated by hard work). I saw a couple of responses in this thread which indicated similar views.
Search on the internet for that the king of 'Swaziland' is upto. It's one of the poorest countries in the world.
Apologise, I just started reading the thread so this may seem off topic.
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Old 25th April 2008, 16:38   #165
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Seeing this thread now only.
As a matter of fact, I have no respect for all those maharajas, who were very careless with money (which was never accumulated by hard work). I saw a couple of responses in this thread which indicated similar views.
Search on the internet for that the king of 'Swaziland' is upto. It's one of the poorest countries in the world.
Apologise, I just started reading the thread so this may seem off topic.
Jeep: I am entirely in agreement with you, Sir. Their hegemonies and excesses are probably precisely why they are history. Exactly why the Government abolished the privy purse too but, cars are cars, and we salute them, not necessarily their erstwhile owners (who also went about decimating our fauna for photo-opportunities).
There's a similar stirring vis-a-vis the Taj Mahal that's adored around the world as a symbol of love- not many know that Shah Jehan had the artisans' hand cut off after it was completed.
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