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Old 4th March 2008, 10:23   #16
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Wow could just visualise such a scene. Which Duesenberg was this? and which jungle?Where did you read about this?
Ah! so many questions! I think sometimes simply researching history can prove to be exciting and fun. Thanks Julian, keep it coming.
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The car was advertised FOR SALE in the NEW YORK TIMES in 1956 and sold for $6,000 to a man in Morristown, NJ. When the car came out of the jungle in India to be shipped it was cradeled in a sling between four elephants.
If you refer to the link that I provided in my earlier post (#13), you will come across this story.
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Old 4th March 2008, 11:19   #17
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Wow could just visualise such a scene. Which Duesenberg was this? and which jungle?Where did you read about this?

Ah! so many questions! I think sometimes simply researching history can prove to be exciting and fun. Thanks Julian, keep it coming.
i think julan was just as amused about this duesenberg in a jungle business as i was. we all know it did not happen.. unless indore ahmedabad and bombay are the said jungles.. thats where the car was for most of its life in india...
another case in point that one should not believe everthing one reads on websites....
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Old 4th March 2008, 12:02   #18
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another case in point that one should not believe everthing one reads on websites....
I thought as much Awini were you able to trace any info/pictures on the Calcutta car?
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Old 24th March 2008, 21:58   #19
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Lets kick off this thread with whatever little I know about it. I know of 4 Duesenbergs that came to India

Two came to Hyderabad. One was a convertible coupe and the other I believe a limo. The coupe has survived and is in the US



Lets try to get as much detail as we can into this thread with pictures so it becomes a pictorial/historical record for visitors.

There are atleast 3 more cars that came to India details of which I will try to get. Would request people with info on the history of each car to relate that info here.
The other two are the convertible coupe by Gurney Nutting for Maharaja of Indore and the fourth for the Maharajah of Idar.

I have documentaion / pictures of a couple of Indian Duesenbergs (other than the widely photogaphed Indore Gurney Nutting - Car #2614; J585). They are

Berar/Hyderabad - Car # 2516; J499 body by Fernandez-Darrin. Very similar to the Greta Garbo (in contention!) car. There are pictures in the Duesenberg books by Fred Roe and by J.L. Elbert. Also in Motor Trend March 1953. This car supposedly is now in the U.S. - have not been able to find any current pictures on the Web

Car # 2222; J202 - RHD supposedly went to India per the Fred Roe book. This is a covertible sedan exhibited at the London / Olympia Show in Oct 1929

Car #2220; J196 - RHD, 4 Door Saloon body by Weyman - again went to India per the Fred Roe book.

Can anyone identify which Maharajas / States these came to ?

I will scan and post the pictures soon
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Old 24th March 2008, 22:14   #20
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
The other two are the convertible coupe by Gurney Nutting for Maharaja of Indore and the fourth for the Maharajah of Idar.

I have documentaion / pictures of a couple of Indian Duesenbergs (other than the widely photogaphed Indore Gurney Nutting - Car #2614; J585). They are

Berar/Hyderabad - Car # 2516; J499 body by Fernandez-Darrin. Very similar to the Greta Garbo (in contention!) car. There are pictures in the Duesenberg books by Fred Roe and by J.L. Elbert. Also in Motor Trend March 1953. This car supposedly is now in the U.S. - have not been able to find any current pictures on the Web

Car # 2222; J202 - RHD supposedly went to India per the Fred Roe book. This is a covertible sedan exhibited at the London / Olympia Show in Oct 1929

Car #2220; J196 - RHD, 4 Door Saloon body by Weyman - again went to India per the Fred Roe book.

Can anyone identify which Maharajas / States these came to ?

I will scan and post the pictures soon
Fantastic, can't wait to see them, I met someone who actually sat in the convertible coupe Duesenberg while it was used by Princess Niloufer. I'm sure we can identify the other cars too. Hyderabad had also received a limousine. Trying to find more details, pictures.
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Old 25th March 2008, 02:53   #21
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Fantastic, can't wait to see them, I met someone who actually sat in the convertible coupe Duesenberg while it was used by Princess Niloufer. I'm sure we can identify the other cars too. Hyderabad had also received a limousine. Trying to find more details, pictures.
Here are a couple of Berar / Hyderabad Duesenberg pictures, specially for you DKG! These are courtesy of "Duesenberg - Pursuit of Perfection" by Fred Roe

Name:  Berar Duesenberg Period small.bmp
Views: 2686
Size:  498.8 KB

Name:  Berar Duesenberg 1 Current small.bmp
Views: 2949
Size:  456.1 KB

The car was obviously painted a dark color after return to the U.S.
I assume the original colors were Mustard Yellow and Crimson (similar to the Berar RR Phantom III by Windover).

I think this car is LHD from the pictures, not RHD as mentioned. Couple more pictures coming, including one that shows the Prince & Princess with the car in Vienna
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Old 25th March 2008, 04:11   #22
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Car # 2222; J202 - RHD supposedly went to India per the Fred Roe book. This is a covertible sedan exhibited at the London / Olympia Show in Oct 1929

Car #2220; J196 - RHD, 4 Door Saloon body by Weymann - again went to India per the Fred Roe book.

Can anyone identify which Maharajas / States these came to ?

Here are pictures for the final 2 Duesenbergs. Would be great if someone could identify what Maharajas / States they went to (Hyderabad and Idar ???)

Pictures are courtesy of "Duesenberg - Pursuit of Perfection" by Fred Roe. Thanks

Name:  Duesenberg India J202.jpg
Views: 2872
Size:  184.4 KB

Name:  Duesenberg India J196.jpg
Views: 6846
Size:  200.0 KB
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Old 25th March 2008, 08:52   #23
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Default RR & Duesenbergs in India.

Deepak, the way to go. Glad you started these threads. You have made a great start and lets keep updating them as much as we can. I will also upload pics I have taken. Just hafta ignore some of the cribbing.
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Old 26th March 2008, 00:23   #24
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Here are a couple of Berar / Hyderabad Duesenberg pictures, specially for you DKG!
What a treat Sir! What a treat! To finally see pictures of the beauty that came to Hyderabad. Wow, simply can't get over the coupe.

Come to think of it Princess Niloufer, the younger prince's wife, was amongst the most beautiful women in the world at the time, and she apparently used the coupe. What a sight that must have been

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Couple more pictures coming, including one that shows the Prince & Princess with the car in Vienna
Can't wait to see the pictures

Thanks a ton Travancore

Ajit, I have yet to meet someone who has taken this passion to the extant you did, we need to get you to share all your stuff here. I always mentioned you needed a forum to share the wealth of information you have gathered, this just might be it.
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Old 26th March 2008, 03:08   #25
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[quote=xoticars;770319 I will also upload pics I have taken. Just hafta ignore some of the cribbing. [/quote]

If one takes a photo one is effectively stealing the image. I think now there should be some debate about the moral ethics of utilizing images for non profit educational purpose. Where do the cars belong, If there is any objection to the presence of images (sanctioned by the site moderators) of cars that belong in India that happen to have been taken with another person's camera elsewhere,then if those that object are in the majority then I will cease and no longer wish to be involved. What are the views of others here. Aren't these photos relevant?
Personally I find a greater depth of interest in the condition of the cars as the Maharajahs purchased them as not all have survived exhibiting their best features.
(DKG no pictures of original cars Throne Silver Ghost included) we didn't take them ourselves What rot.
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Old 26th March 2008, 04:19   #26
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[quote=DKG;771579]What a treat Sir! What a treat! To finally see pictures of the beauty that came to Hyderabad. Wow, simply can't get over the coupe.

Come to think of it Princess Niloufer, the younger prince's wife, was amongst the most beautiful women in the world at the time, and she apparently used the coupe. What a sight that must have been

Can't wait to see the pictures.

OK here is the one showing the Prince and Princess with the car in Vienna (picture courtesy of Duesenberg by Fred Roe)

Name:  Berar Duesenberg 2.jpg
Views: 2902
Size:  128.9 KB
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Old 26th March 2008, 05:46   #27
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[quote=travancore;771701]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
What a treat Sir! What a treat! To finally see pictures of the beauty that came to Hyderabad. Wow, simply can't get over the coupe.

Come to think of it Princess Niloufer, the younger prince's wife, was amongst the most beautiful women in the world at the time, and she apparently used the coupe. What a sight that must have been

Can't wait to see the pictures.

OK here is the one showing the Prince and Princess with the car in Vienna (picture courtesy of Duesenberg by Fred Roe)

Attachment 3696
Priceless historic pictures, please do keep them coming..
Real history.....
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Old 26th March 2008, 09:34   #28
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OK here is the one showing the Prince and Princess with the car in Vienna (picture courtesy of Duesenberg by Fred Roe)
Oh my my!! What a shot. Now you guys can see what I meant. That is the stunning Princess Niloufer and the younger Prince Mauzamjah (not elder brother Azamjah) in the back.

What a picture Travancore. Can't thank you enough!!
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Old 26th March 2008, 10:23   #29
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Aren't these photos relevant?
Julian I don't think there is any debate about that. These images are the last (sadly) vestiges of what was once a glorious heritage gracing India

So much unbelievable stuff by way of art, architecture and automobiles has disappeared into dust and our greatest shame is that had the Indian government recognised the sheer tourist value of what these Maharajahs had carefully retained over centuries, they wouldn't have abolished the privy purse which lead to a horrific plunder as these families had to sell to survive.

Princely India was one of the most powerful tools available to India to create revenue for itself. It could easily have been a billion dollar/pound industry had the government played its cards right. We missed a great opportunity to salvage an incomprehensible collection of art for the generations to come.

What remains in India is a miniscule of what once was this great country's heritage, and for centuries the royal families in India were its custodian, whether someone likes to accept that contribution or not is not relevant.

The Nizam of Hyderabad contributed something like 150 million pounds during the world war 2. Later after Independence he contributed in excess of 40 crore rupees toward building a new India. Today some of the large manmade water bodies in our state are a small remnant of one of the largest creations of waterbodies for the benefit of the state. The Osmania hospital in late 20's was inaugurated with some of the finest equipment in the world. Not to mention, the State courts, the railways, the now famous Osmania university and many other achievements.

During the Pakistan war Indira Gandhi needed cash desperately and a little known fact is that she landed up at King Kothi un-announced seeking a meeting with the Nizam. The Nizam was very upset that she had breached protocol and didn't bother to take an appointment. On meeting her he expressed his displeasure. Being the sharp mind she was she reponded " Since when does a daughter need permission to meet her father" This floored the Nizam and she walked away with tons of gold and silver he donated to the war effort.

In India historians choose to paint a picture they prefer to paint. Often it reflects their aches stemming from their social standing and personal philosophies and rarely is it an authentic account of what actually transpired

There are two sides to the coin as always. I'm sure millions of people were exploited as such wealth was amassed. Today millions continue to be exploited as we pay tax and it finds its way into the pockets of greedy politicians who syphon money out through con projects. History repeats itself.

I do know though the former royalty left India with a heritage that only makes one feel proud. I doubt if the political czars of today will leave anything behind to even warrant their mention in history.

Keep those pictures coming gentlemen. Lets not debate what should have been or whether history was right or wrong. For the benefit of generations to come it is our social responsibility to save whatever is left and present it in a manner which allows all to share in this priceless treasure.

This is just one man's perspective and I'm sure there are a million other viewpoints. I have no intentions of starting a debate as I am not here to protect the Maharajahs or care for the socialist principles that get bandied about while millions are stashed away by corrupt politicians.

A million thanks to the efforts of many BHPians who so wonderfully are adding to this amazing treasure of pictures. This sharing of pictures is something I always wanted to see and am delighted we at TBHP are doing our small bit

Its so obvious so many of us are so deeply passionate about automobiles and its so wonderful that now we have some forum to share and get to know each other.

Its a delight. Thanks for everything
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Old 31st March 2008, 16:27   #30
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I presume Duesenberg fans have already seen this but if not Iíll leave it to you guys to investigate. It seems to have details of some India cars.

www.automotivehistoryonline.com/AutomotiveHistoryOnline-DuesenbergRegistry.xls
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