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Old 31st March 2008, 21:26   #31
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
I presume Duesenberg fans have already seen this but if not Iíll leave it to you guys to investigate. It seems to have details of some India cars.
Very interesting record. Going through all the cars was truly an eye opener. Sadly the majority of the Duesenbergs seem to be a hodge podge of bodies, engine and frames swapped and fabricated. This may have been the trend in those days to continually fiddle with car bodies (I guess the body on frame design allowed this). It does explain why so many Duesenbergs look so awfully disproportionate considering how frequently their bodies were meddled with

Thanks to you I finally know that apart from the converible coupe the other car was a Murphy convertible sedan which came to Hyderabad

I am curious about the statement that says up until the 70's an ex Hyderabad car had survived. But elsewhere it says all that survived of the convertible sedan was the engine in Calcutta which eventually was smuggled out of Bombay.

Also the record seems to only list the two cars to Hyderabad, the Holkar Duesy, one for the Baroda Maharani and one imported by the Mitter Brothers of Calcutta.

Thanks, atleast we can proceed from here and investigate further
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Old 31st March 2008, 22:57   #32
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
I presume Duesenberg fans have already seen this but if not Iíll leave it to you guys to investigate. It seems to have details of some India cars.

www.automotivehistoryonline.com/AutomotiveHistoryOnline-DuesenbergRegistry.xls
Thanks Julian, great piece! Never knew that Baroda had a Duesy!!!
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Old 1st April 2008, 10:56   #33
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Thanks to the efforts of Travancore and Julian we have details of the Duesenbergs that came to Hyderabad

According to the registry, the first car ordered by Prince Azamjah was :

Engine Number : J 202
Coachbuilder : Murphy
Body Style : Convertible Sedan
Number Produced of this style : 11/46

Notes:

RHD, displayed at London Motor Show, then originally owned by the Azam Jah of India (J-499 was another of his), scrapped but the engine sold to Englishman who stored it in Calcutta garage where it was kept after purhcase by Ray Wolff since its exportation was forbidden by Indian law. Then purloined (the garage owner disappeared too), it turned up in Bombay where it was blatantly offered by a dealer who smuggled it out via Dubai and sold it to an American collector. In NL 1988 No. 3 Wollf also mentions that the engine has been renumbered incorrectly.

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The second more flamboyant car ordered was:

Engine Number : J 499
Chassis Number : 2516
Model Year/Variant :1935 Model J - LWB
Coachbuilder : Fernandez and Darrin
Body Style : Convertible Victoria
Number Produced of this style : 2/3

Notes :

Twin to Garbo car except for larger trunk. Originally sold to W.D. Campbell, chassis later converted to RHD and car shipped to India for use by the Prince Sahibzade Nawab Azam Jah. Exported, while still legal, to the U.S.A. and in 1986 owned by John Fischer of St. Louis. Rick Carroll auction by Sotheby's, 1990, sold for $900,000. Seen at Imperial Palace by Rocky Voss, 1994. Dr. Joseph Murphy Collection, c. 1995. Current location unknown.

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Here Prince Mauzamjah (Prince Azamjah's younger brother) is seen with his wife the beautiful Princess Niloufer

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Old 1st April 2008, 12:14   #34
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Default Fate of J 202

A bit far fetched perhaps, but could the rest of J 202 have survived?

If the car had been broken down I doubt if just the engine survived. Chances are, being the gas guzzler the Duesy would have been, either a smaller engine was put in or worse a diesel, as many a car suffered that fate.

Could someone in Calcutta trace info on which garage had the engine and where he got it from?
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Old 13th April 2008, 01:26   #35
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Originally Posted by ajitkommini View Post
I tried searching Rootsweb for Duesenbergs and here's what I found:

"The cars of the rich reflected the ideosyncrasies or individualities of their owners. The Maharaja of Indore, for instance, who bought the last Duesenberg chassis had a Gurney Nutting roadster body built on it, with two sets of sidelights. One pair had red lenses; the other blue. "He chose these colours so that in India his loyal subjects would know that if the car passed them with red lights on, then the Maharaja was driving; and if blue, then the Maharani was at the wheel".
McNeil and Gurney-Nutting are alive and well in Ann Arbor, Michigan!

Holkar Duesenberg J585 (creation of the original didn't take this long!!!)
Masterpiece being created - converted from Monogram 1/24 scale Roadster

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Old 13th April 2008, 02:29   #36
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Have you seen this J ?
http://www.detailedmodelcars.net/Pho...ery.asp?GID=12
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Old 22nd September 2008, 06:45   #37
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Default Indore Duesenberg

Does anyone have a period picture of the Indore Duesenberg you could post ? The picture in Automobiles of the Maharajas (and another one I have) seem to have the orange and black reversed from what is on the car today.
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Old 22nd September 2008, 13:02   #38
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Does anyone have a period picture of the Indore Duesenberg you could post ? The picture in Automobiles of the Maharajas (and another one I have) seem to have the orange and black reversed from what is on the car today.
The earlier scheme was different from the current trademark Holkar scheme, but I cant say what as the pictures I have seen are black and white. I have a late 80s/early 90s issue of the Indian Auto Journal with an article by Barwani on Maharaja's cars, including pictures of the Holkar Duesenberg and what I think was a Pierce Arrow with diamond studded wheel caps! That issue is somewhere amongst the 1000s of magazines and publications in my house, give me a few months to dig it out.
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Old 22nd September 2008, 19:52   #39
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Does anyone have a period picture of the Indore Duesenberg you could post ? The picture in Automobiles of the Maharajas (and another one I have) seem to have the orange and black reversed from what is on the car today.
Here is the Duesenberg of the Maharaja Holkar Of Indore. He bought the car at the young age of 28 yrs. It is a "Speedster Roadster" built on the model JN's 11-inch longer 153.5-inch wheelbase. The car also got the model SJ's supercharged 320-BHP eight; it did 104 mph in second and toped out at 140.
The sale of the car was handled by R.S.M. Automobiles Limited of London and then it went to J.Gurney Nutting & Company for its special Body.
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Old 22nd September 2008, 21:13   #40
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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
The earlier scheme was different from the current trademark Holkar scheme, but I cant say what as the pictures I have seen are black and white. I have a late 80s/early 90s issue of the Indian Auto Journal with an article by Barwani on Maharaja's cars, including pictures of the Holkar Duesenberg and what I think was a Pierce Arrow with diamond studded wheel caps! That issue is somewhere amongst the 1000s of magazines and publications in my house, give me a few months to dig it out.
The pictures I have are all black & white too - but is shows a lighter and a darker shade (which I assume are dayglo orange and black). The problem is, the lighter color is on the bodysides and the darker color on the hood spear and around the cockpit / tail. I know the picture wasn't reversed, since the whitewall on the tyres show white. The current color scheme is the opposite, black body / orange top!
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Old 23rd September 2008, 09:33   #41
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
The pictures I have are all black & white too - but is shows a lighter and a darker shade (which I assume are dayglo orange and black). The problem is, the lighter color is on the bodysides and the darker color on the hood spear and around the cockpit / tail. I know the picture wasn't reversed, since the whitewall on the tyres show white. The current color scheme is the opposite, black body / orange top!
I'll check with someone who owned this car here in India once before it went out and let you know
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:25   #42
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A bit far fetched perhaps, but could the rest of J 202 have survived?

If the car had been broken down I doubt if just the engine survived. Chances are, being the gas guzzler the Duesy would have been, either a smaller engine was put in or worse a diesel, as many a car suffered that fate.

Could someone in Calcutta trace info on which garage had the engine and where he got it from?
Now that we have people from the Ghosh and Kanoria families participating perhaps some light can be shone on the fate of J 202 or any other Duesenberg we have not covered that was in/came through Calcutta
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Old 17th March 2009, 15:50   #43
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Also J196 was apparently imported into India by Mitter Brothers. Does anyone know who the end user was?

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Old 17th March 2009, 16:01   #44
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Wow DKG, finally a thread on possibly one of the most beautiful looking cars ever built. My personal all time favourite, have hunted for replicas for the same for quite some time, but most shops havent even heard about this. I remember there was a story on this in history channel..simply amazed by the beauty of this car. A real masterpiece. Great to know that these were brought down to india too.
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Old 17th March 2009, 16:10   #45
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Wow DKG, finally a thread on possibly one of the most beautiful looking cars ever built.
Why finally? It is well over a year old
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