Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India > Pre-War


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th February 2008, 20:48   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default Bugattis in India!

1926 Bugatti Type 23 Brescia Carrosserie Lavocat et Marsaud
1.5 litre single OHC 4 valves per cylinder.
A work in progress, unfortunately I was unable to complete the car before leaving India in 2003. The car was virtually finished, only the rebuilt engine (in UK ,new crank, pistons etc) needed fitting. It is in Delhi.

New radiator


Lovely gearbox just changed the bearings.



The crank and crankcase.


The cylinder block and rebuilt clutch (parts from UK)

The car is red now, complete new ash frame, original body I rebuilt the wheels, new spokes and rims (originals all rusted away) new bead edge tyres, brakes relined and new cables. Instruments rebuilt in UK. She was nearly finished except for fitting the engine. I expect it is finished by now. Unfortunately these are the only photos I have.
Julian UK is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2008, 22:58   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 496
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

this one took quite some time to restore since it arrived from bombay... if i remember right?
awini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2008, 23:21   #3
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by awini View Post
this one took quite some time to restore since it arrived from bombay... if i remember right?
I didn't touch it much until about 2002 apart from acumalating parts as I was already involved in several other cars.
In Bombay the car was dismantled and lying in 2 different places. Half of it was right in the middle of an umbrella factory surrounded by dozens of chaps assembling umbrellas. The other half was in a garage. All the small parts were wrapped and labelled and dated 1966. So it had been apart for quite awhile.
The crank could have been made in Delhi as luckily it was originally turned from solid bilet as was the Hispano's (if it was a forged shaped crank then it would be prohibitively expensive) but as we had to make two Hispano cranks as the first one was not good enough and it took time it was decided to get it done in UK. Also the camshaft needed regrinding. These engines suffer from the problem of the oil pump being at the top of the engine driven by the overhead camshaft so the suction pipe from the sump is very very long, so when the oil pump bushes wear it lets in air and you loose all oil pressure, it runs dry seizes and smashes its self to pieces as many did. Luckily this one stopped in time, but the oil pump was very loose. More if requested.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2008, 00:31   #4
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 928 Times
Default

Wow...what a treat to see these pictures. You are very fortunate to have worked on such historic cars. Amazing exposure!!. Do please relate all those interesting tales surrounding the restoration, the procurement of parts, the many challenges...needless to say its all a learning experience for anyone who reads it.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 18:38   #5
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Not sure where to put this, not enough Bugattis for a thread of their own so I'll put it here: I presume this is the same Type 44 that is in V. Mallya's collection.
As Elizabeth Junek, the famous racing driver who was given this car by Ettore Bugatti, came to India and Ceylon and then sold it in India, I suppose the photo could be in India or Ceylon, does anyone recognize any clues?

Name:  Junek bugatti 44.jpg
Views: 8598
Size:  60.4 KB

A picture of a Type 44 Factory show engine.
Bugattis in India!-44-engine.jpg

Details of Elizabeth Junek
Eliška Junková - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
See this


Images from Bugatti 'Le pur-sang des automobiles' by H.G. Conway

Last edited by Julian UK : 29th March 2008 at 18:54.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 23:37   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Not sure where to put this, not enough Bugattis for a thread of their own so I'll put it here: I presume this is the same Type 44 that is in V. Mallya's collection.
Attatched is a photo of Mallyas Bugatti, courtesy Kasli. I can see a somewhat different windscreen, sidemounted spare which is missing earlier, missing vents on the front valence, different headilght mounting frame and bar between fenders. What say? Same car for sure? Boy we had surprisingly many Bugattis as well! Wonder where JRDs car currently is.
Attached Images
  
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2008, 23:53   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

They are different aren't they, any idea if the location is in India?
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 00:06   #8
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,012
Thanked: 147 Times
Default

A picture of a Type 44 Factory show engine.


Where is the exhaust manifold? or did the car come like this. And if it did, didnt the exhaust damage the inside of the engine cover?
Cyrus43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 00:27   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

It is a prototype show model T44 in the London Motor Show of 1928 not yet complete. All the pipework etc is missing.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 01:48   #10
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,012
Thanked: 147 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
It is a prototype show model T44 in the London Motor Show of 1928 not yet complete. All the pipework etc is missing.
Thanks for clarifying. The real car had it though didnt it?
Cyrus43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 02:02   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

I expect so otherwise it takes a great deal longer to start and the floor gets rather messy

But seriously though,
I do remember a story of a Bugatti Type 57 or 57C in South india but the engine had been used for an alternative purpose... and all that was left was the front mudguards.

Last edited by Julian UK : 30th March 2008 at 02:07.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 03:50   #12
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,979
Thanked: 4,292 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Attatched is a photo of Mallyas Bugatti, courtesy Kasli. I can see a somewhat different windscreen, sidemounted spare which is missing earlier, missing vents on the front valence, different headilght mounting frame and bar between fenders. What say? Same car for sure? Boy we had surprisingly many Bugattis as well! Wonder where JRDs car currently is.
"Automobiles of the Maharajas" provides the following info on Indian Bugattis:

Elizabeth Junek came to India (1929) with two Type 44's - one sold to Mehta Freres in Bombay

Around 21 Bugattis came to India prior to 1947

Maharajas of:

Jodhpur - Type 13 Torpedo Tourer
Yeshwant Rao Holkar- Type 13 Boattail 16-valve Brescia
and Type 57 Atlantic Coupe
Alwar - two door sporting model
Nawanagar - 5 Liter / 8-Cyl (maybe car I had pictures
of before
Idar - Type 35C
J.R.D. Tata - Type 35C
travancore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 07:19   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
"Automobiles of the Maharajas" provides the following info on Indian Bugattis:

Elizabeth Junek came to India (1929) with two Type 44's - one sold to Mehta Freres in Bombay

Around 21 Bugattis came to India prior to 1947

Maharajas of:

Jodhpur - Type 13 Torpedo Tourer
Yeshwant Rao Holkar- Type 13 Boat tail 16-valve Brescia
and Type 57 Atlantic Coupe
Alwar - two door sporting model
Nawanagar - 5 Liter / 8-Cyl (maybe car I had pictures
of before
Idar - Type 35C
J.R.D. Tata - Type 35C
Very interesting, I await a copy of "Automobiles of the Maharajas" with great interest...
Two Type 44s! I presume they were shipped to India, from Elizabeth Junek's nature I loved the idea that she might have driven one overland. The Hugh Conway books only mention one. I have requested the mods to rename this thread "Bugattis in India" and your photos of the Lightening decor car need to be here if you could possibly repost them in this thread.
Two Type 35c cars! It gets better and better, maybe someone here can add some details.
No mention of the 1926 Type 23 Brescia I partially restored, that is odd as its existance is certain an d well known. It was dismantled in 1966 and a lot of the parts were wrapped and labelled and dated so.The father of the owner of this car had dismantled the car but sadly passed away shortly after.
Where did they all end up .
I heard of a Type 13 with a Austin radiator in Rajasthan.
There is a Type 13 brand new radiator in Delhi due to the UK manufacturer erroneously supplying and sending one by mistake, and then resupplying a correct later version for our Type 23.
The Type 57? Well let's see what information might be forth coming.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 19:28   #14
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,979
Thanked: 4,292 Times
Default

[No mention of the 1926 Type 23 Brescia I partially restored, that is odd as its existance is certain an d well known. It was dismantled in 1966 and a lot of the parts were wrapped and labelled and dated so.The father of the owner of this car had dismantled the car but sadly passed away shortly after.
Where did they all end up .
I heard of a Type 13 with a Austin radiator in Rajasthan.

Attached are pictures of an "ex-Indore" "Type 23" with widely modified body, De-Soto engine, etc. Bugatti badge was re-rivetted to the new Radiator. Owned by Soileen Banerjee from Jodhpur (2004) according to website (sourcewww.bugattipage.com / Classic & Sportscar, Feb 2004)

Name:  Holkar Bugatti T23 1923 Frt.jpg
Views: 7909
Size:  32.6 KB

Name:  Holkar Bugatti T23 1923 Rivetted Badge.jpg
Views: 5917
Size:  5.6 KB
travancore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2008, 20:57   #15
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,628
Thanked: 8,113 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Attached are pictures of an "ex-Indore" "Type 23" with widely modified body, De-Soto engine, etc. Bugatti badge was re-rivetted to the new Radiator. Owned by Soileen Banerjee from Jodhpur (2004) according to website (sourcewww.bugattipage.com / Classic & Sportscar, Feb 2004)
I was told the car was sold some time back. Cant confirm it though.

Travancore, do go through the FAQs and see how to quote posts. It gets a tad confusing when the quote is not highlighted correctly.

Cheers
karl
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
30 Bugattis sold for a song Vajra Pre-War 1 22nd May 2010 20:19
VW India ,Skoda India & Audi India email address? Dose The Indian Car Scene 3 25th July 2009 09:04
CAR India and BIKE India magazine launched !!! Dippy The Indian Car Scene 38 25th July 2005 12:32
Airtel One India Challenge- India's richest rally ever! Rtech Indian Motorsport 15 21st April 2005 17:49
Bugattis answer to the Ferrari 612. v12 The International Automotive Scene 4 9th June 2004 16:48


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:20.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks