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Old 11th April 2008, 09:14   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
DKG:
I am looking!
Chassis 3BU198 is a 1936/7 Phantom III.
"History of Windovers" lists it as a Sedanca de Ville - original owner Rajpipla
Obviously the author Jane Windover has things mixed up!!

3 CP 116 and 3BU198 are both 1937 PIII

She has incorrectly referred to 3BU198 as a 20/25 on page 52.

So according to the book two PIII's came to Hyderabad, both Windovers. And GTK19 is a 1936 20/25 in all probability.

Any help in identifying whether these cars survived would be great. I think 3CP116 is in England or Europe, someone posted a picture somewhere.
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Old 11th April 2008, 11:04   #137
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3CP116 a 1937 RR PIII All Weather Cabriolet by Windovers as delivered to Prince Azamjah

Classic Rolls Royces in India-p111c201938.jpg

Later picture of the same car. Notice it lost the side mounts, the spot lamps and has different bumpers. Also lost those horns and the Lalique mascot. Boy they most certainly had jazzed up the car for the Prince!

Classic Rolls Royces in India-hooper2053639.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Another photo of the Phantom III chassis 3CP116 in front of the Hooper factory at Park Royal, with cabriolet coachwork by Windovers, delivered to HH Prince Azam Jah Berar of Hyderabad in February 1938. The same car as was tracked down by Travencore to its present location about 5 miles from its original body builder Hooper in Park Royal London.
Ironic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
A small correction to above statement - the above car (3CP116) after the modfication (de-glamoured !)by Hooper, was used as the State Car of the Portugese President and is with the Caramulo Museum in Portugal.
So I guess its fair to say 3CP116 has survived and is in Portugal

Last edited by DKG : 11th April 2008 at 11:10.
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Old 11th April 2008, 14:14   #138
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Interesting headlamps on 3CP116. Very American, almost like the Packard's

Julian I have a pair of Marchal Aerolux's. Beautiful lamps. Its interesting how in those days the reflector had the focusing ridges with a clear lens ahead. Ironically all modern cars have reverted to this format.

What all cars used the Marchal Aerolux lamps? The 1938 Packard I have has them. Apparently Packards shipped to some European countries were sent without lamps, and the local dealer/imported fitted the country spec lamps. I've seen many Packards with the Marchal Aerolux lamps to confirm this. I think Belgium was one such country?

Last edited by DKG : 11th April 2008 at 14:17.
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Old 11th April 2008, 19:57   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Interesting headlamps on 3CP116. Very American, almost like the Packard's

Julian I have a pair of Marchal Aerolux's. Beautiful lamps. Its interesting how in those days the reflector had the focusing ridges with a clear lens ahead. Ironically all modern cars have reverted to this format.

What all cars used the Marchal Aerolux lamps? The 1938 Packard I have has them. Apparently Packards shipped to some European countries were sent without lamps, and the local dealer/imported fitted the country spec lamps. I've seen many Packards with the Marchal Aerolux lamps to confirm this. I think Belgium was one such country?
DKG:
Please check the History of Windovers (I do not have the book, just a couple of pages off the web). Think it mentions that the headlamps on 3CP116 were not the standard Lucas P100 (?).

The car is pictured many places on the web - search (Flickr) for Caramulo Museum, Portugal President RR
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Old 12th April 2008, 04:10   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
3CP116 a 1937 RR PIII All Weather Cabriolet by Windovers as delivered to Prince Azamjah

Attachment 7833

Later picture of the same car. Notice it lost the side mounts, the spot lamps and has different bumpers. Also lost those horns and the Lalique mascot. Boy they most certainly had jazzed up the car for the Prince!

Attachment 7834



Travancore corrects



So I guess its fair to say 3CP116 has survived and is in Portugal
Here are a couple of pictures of the Berar Phantom III (3CP116) at the Caramulo Museum. Like DKG pointed out, the Lalilque hood ornament, triple bar bumpers, side mounts, unique running lamps on fenders, double 4 note horns are all gone. The headlamps remain!

The car has been used by the Pope and QEII on their visits to Portugal

Name:  1937rollsr3.jpg
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picture courtesy of barchetta.cc


Name:  2005102303857_RollsRoyce20Phanton20III201937.jpg
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picture courtesy: arquivo.forum.autohoje.com
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Old 12th April 2008, 09:42   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Think it mentions that the headlamps on 3CP116 were not the standard Lucas P100 (?).
I have a copy of the original spec sheet that accompanied the car order/invoice. Will go through it and post details of what was specified.

Thanks for the pictures will check out the sites

Last edited by DKG : 12th April 2008 at 09:44.
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Old 12th April 2008, 10:05   #142
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Considering the collaborative work taking place in the vintage car section and a wealth of materialVin having been collated its apt in my opinion to place Vintage and Classic Cars in India as a independent sub category (not as part of Super cars)

Further it is recommended we create two broad classifications within the Vintage and Classic Cars in India group, namely, Pre War Cars (before 1946) and Post War Cars (1946 onwards)

Most companies had ceased production from 1942 to 1945 and commenced military equipment production. New models appeared in 1946 marking a new begining in automobile history. I think this is a significant marker separating different era.

All threads such as Rolls, Duesenberg, Hispano, Bentley, Daimler, Miscellaneous, Maharajah cars, Lagonda, Gurney Nutting, Figoni etc can be shifted into the Pre War group. All other classics including Fiats, Heralds, Landmasters, and many other Post war car threads would go into the respective group.

Eventually I'd like to see a gallery section within these groups too with only pictures and legends.

If you second this suggestion please report this post according your approval as "Please Implement". If enough of us do this perhaps the team at TBHP can do the needful

Last edited by DKG : 12th April 2008 at 10:22.
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Old 12th April 2008, 15:44   #143
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Thanks for the suggestion, DKG. Julian has brought it to our notice, and the mod team is currently in discussion over this.
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Old 12th April 2008, 18:24   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, DKG. Julian has brought it to our notice, and the mod team is currently in discussion over this.
I am absolutely in favor of doing this.

GTO, thanks for having this under consideration
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Old 12th April 2008, 19:05   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
I have a copy of the original spec sheet that accompanied the car order/invoice. Will go through it and post details of what was specified.

Thanks for the pictures will check out the sites
Also check out this website belonging to the Federal Journal of the Rolls Royce Owners' Club of Australia Magazine "Praeclarum" (No.1-07 February 2007) that I had referenced in an earlier thread:

www.kda132.com/Praeclarum/Praeclarum%20Feb07.pdf

This is a PDF file and part of a 4-article series on P-III's
  • Starting on page 13 of 46 is a list of original owners of P-III's
  • Page 16 mentions that 21 P-III's came to India (unfortunately not all identified)
  • Page 18 shows 3AX147 (Gurney-Nutting) delivered to Indore
  • Page 19 has 3BU106 (Kellner) with the Maharani of Baroda
The pevious issue (5-06 October 2006) www.kda132.com/Praeclarum/Praeclarum5Oct06.pdf has a couple of Indian cars too:
  • page 16 - Interior of Berar 3CP116 at Hooper after the seats had been redyed black from GOLD
  • page 17- Baroda 3CP112 with leopard skin carpets/floor/door panels
  • page 18 - Jodhpur 3BU102 interior
Unfortunately these are PDF files and I am having trouble manipulating or even providing a (reliable) hyperlink. Maybe one of you experts can figure out how to! Looks like the Editor is/was from India.

Enjoy!!! IT IS WORTH A VISIT
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Old 12th April 2008, 20:12   #146
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Superb find!

I wonder if that ridiculously tall 3AZ47 Hooper Limousine is the Poona Phantom 3 that was cut to make a convertible.
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Old 12th April 2008, 20:49   #147
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Here are the PIII records of 21 cars that came to India.

3AZ 47 Limousine Hooper 1936 July H.E Viceroy of India
3AZ 198 Limousine Hooper 1936 Dec Commander-in-Chief Delhi
3AX 87 Saloon Limousine Barker 1937 June The Nawab of Bahawalpur
3AX147 Limousine Gurney Nutting 1937 Feb The Maharajah Holkar of Indore
3AX201 Limousine Hooper 1937 Mar The Maharajah Gaekwar of Baroda
3BU 50 Landaulette Thrupp and Maberley 1937Mar The Maharajah of Darbhanga
3BU 76 Sedanca de Ville Barker 1937 June The Maharajah of Jaipur
3BU 82 Sedanca de Ville Hooper 1937June The Maharani of Nabha
3BU 86 Allweather Thrupp and Maberley 1937 April The Nawab of Bhopal
3BU 102 Limousine Hooper 1937 April The Maharajah of Jodhpur
3BU 106 Limousine Kellner 1937 Feb The Maharani of Baroda
3BU 134 Open Tourer Barker 1937 July The Maharajah of Kolhapur
3BU 198 Sedanca de Ville Windovers 1937 April The Maharajah of Rajpipla
3BT 75 Saloon Windovers 1937 July The Maharawal of Chhota Udaipur
3BT 181 Allweather Barker 1937 Sept The Ruling Chief of Keonjhar State
3CP 112 Saloon Windovers 1937 Nov The Prince of Baroda
3CP 116 Cabriolet Windovers 1938 Feb The Prince of Berar
3CM 37 Saloon Park Ward 1938 Jan The Maharajah of Panchakote
3DL 26 Cabriolet Thrupp and Maberley 1938 July The Rajah of Parlakimedi
3DL 90 Limousine Park Ward 1938 Sept Indian trials
3DL 96 4 Seater Sports Park Ward 1938 Nov The Maharajah Saheb of Morvi
3DL 200 Drop Head coupe Park Ward 1939 Nov High Commissioner for India

Last edited by aah78 : 12th April 2008 at 23:45. Reason: List edited.
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Old 12th April 2008, 21:50   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Here are the PIII records of 21 cars that came to India.


3DL 200 Drop Head coupe Park Ward 1939 Nov High Commissioner for India
Thanks Julian!

This list and Derby Phantoms does not list:

3BT121 - This is the Vale Car ("Baroda" per Traumautomotiv)

3DL200 - King of Afghanistan per Praeclarum (and destroyed by the Taliban, Kabul 1990's)

Please also check out Praeclarum Issue 4-06 August 2006
www.kda132.com/Praeclarum/Praeclarum4Aug06.pdf
for the following:

Page 16: Berar 3CP116 (posted by others before)
pg 17: Bahawalpur 3AX87
pg 18: Jaipur 3BU76
pg 21: 3DL200 Afghanistan mentioned above

Again, it is worth the trip!!!
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Old 13th April 2008, 00:07   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Thanks Julian!

This list and Derby Phantoms does not list:

3BT121 - This is the Vale Car ("Baroda" per Traumautomotiv)

3DL200 - King of Afghanistan per Praeclarum (and destroyed by the Taliban, Kabul 1990's)
3BT121 Drop head coupe Mayfair 1937 June orig. UK Reg DYR 232 Winner of L'Exposition, France 1937
It came to India later so is not in the first owner list.

3DL200 First owner is listed as the High Commissioner for India then later was given to the King of Afghanistan.

The main point of interest for me is that there are 22 cars in this list so one of them maybe didn't go to India. These 4 cars were originally registered in the UK with the following Registration numbers:
3BT121 Drop head coupe Mayfair 1937 June was first registered in the UK as DYR 232
3BU 50 The Maharajah of Darbhanga's car was first registered in the UK as DXR 555
3BU 76 The Maharajah of Jaipur's car was first registered in the UK as DYK 487
3DL 90 For Indian trials was first registered in the UK as FXX 100
I presume that the "Indian trials" car never went to India? Does anyone have any record of 3DL 90 in India?

Last edited by Julian UK : 13th April 2008 at 00:09.
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Old 13th April 2008, 01:10   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Great stuff DKG, how about some details?? Lovely cars.
And some more:

This 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II, with a "Continental"-engine and a Torpedo body by Thrupp & Maberly was built for the Maharajah of Rajkot.
It was called "The Star of India"
Again, since I can't get my hands on the real one, thought I will build my own!

Rajkot 1934 RR Phantom II (built from 1/24 scale Italeri kit)

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and the real McCoy
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