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Old 25th June 2012, 18:30   #1666
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Just a bit of info received on the Batliboi Rolls,please be aware that it originates from an octogenarian, albeit with a good memory for his age,so kindly allow for any lapses.
Am told it was imported specially for Lord Brabourne,then Governor of Bombay,who did not live to use it.Was bought in auction by the Batliboi family.
Model was 1934 maybe 1935,straight six engine,with ivory and silver fittings.
Was sold around the sixties for 5000 rupees to a Mr. Cawasji,who exported the vehicle to England.
I am also told the same family owned a sporty looking Talbot,(not a Sunbeam Talbot).
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Old 26th June 2012, 00:09   #1667
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Originally Posted by 911987 View Post
Just a bit of info received on the Batliboi Rolls,please be aware that it originates from an octogenarian, albeit with a good memory for his age,so kindly allow for any lapses.
Am told it was imported specially for Lord Brabourne,then Governor of Bombay,who did not live to use it.Was bought in auction by the Batliboi family.
Model was 1934 maybe 1935,straight six engine,with ivory and silver fittings.
Was sold around the sixties for 5000 rupees to a Mr. Cawasji,who exported the vehicle to England.
I am also told the same family owned a sporty looking Talbot,(not a Sunbeam Talbot).
Thanks for the info.

If it is indeed the ex-Brabourne car, it is most likely a 1926 Phantom I (Chassis 80-EF Thrupp & Maberly Limousine).

The chassis - with a body from a SG is in the Bhogilal collection (this is what I was told - but this does not match the export scenario)

The rather poor pictures are screen prints from a documentary and are very likely this car.

Can someone who has seen the pictures of the Batliboi car confirm ?

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Classic Rolls Royces in India-brabourne-rr-pi-80ef-maybe-description-cropped.jpg.png


I do not have any records of a Lord Brabourne Phantom II (which is what a 1934-35 car would be).

Last edited by travancore : 26th June 2012 at 00:22.
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Old 26th June 2012, 04:09   #1668
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Will check with my source again,but am fairly sure about the car in question never seeing use by Lord Brabourne.
Regards.
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Old 26th June 2012, 12:43   #1669
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911987, Hi. The batliboi rolls was of the twenties and so cannot have been Lord Brabourne"s in his capacity as Governor, just as the latest entrant to the VCCCI rally was not ordered by the Queen. The Batliboi Rolls had neither ivory, nor silver fittings and was not bought by a gentleman named Cowasji, but sold by him, I believe to chor bazzar. Of course I am open to correction.
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Old 26th June 2012, 16:26   #1670
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Hi again,
At no point did I say the Rolls of 26 pictured above posted by Travancore was the one sold bythe Batliboi family.The info I have ,and again I may be wrong is that A car imported for Brabourne was bought by the aforesaid family in an auction as he passed on or more probably, took over as Governor of Bengal subsequent to his stint in Bombay. Have not yet had an opportunity to try and obtain more info,if available, but what came through very clearly was that the car was sold to Mr.Jal Cawasji of Air India who exported the vehicle. The amount of 5000 realised was divided among several heirs to the car including three brothers and a sister, the car having been purchased by their father. Apparently the car was in a garage beneath the family residence where a couple of them still reside (have seen the empty garage myself years ago) and one day a member of the family who sadly passed away since, put in a new battery, topped up the oil and all it took to start the car was a flick of the steering advance/retard switch. All open and subject to correction given that stories do get embellished unintentionally sometimes with the passage of time, but do not think the info is inaccurate. Had discussed the above with Harit some time ago, but only posted on this thread after I saw the topic being discussed.
Bulldogji, can see where the Cowasji name in my earlier post may have misled you, not referring to the father of the current residents of the house as the seller/buyer of the car,as mentioned above, it was Mr. Jal Cawasji who bought the car from the family as per my info.
Sorry,correction,Cowasji was the uncle,not father of the current residents.
Just showed the Travancore pic to my source who says it looks just like the Batliboi car. Also showed him a pic of a 34 Phantom which he says is too modern and not "boxy" like the car he has seen.He maintains however that the Brabourne info came to him straight from the "horse's mouth and is accurate,also that the car had ivory and silver fittings.
That's all I have, if anything further emerges, will definitely share.

Last edited by karlosdeville : 27th June 2012 at 09:28. Reason: Addition
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Old 26th June 2012, 16:52   #1671
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Hi 911987,Confusion galore. Cowasji batliboi was indeed the uncle of the two senior batlibois currently resident in that bungalow. However Jal Cowasji was someone entirely different, and not the uncle. Dont blame you for the confusion as the names are similar. In fact Jal cowasji is from the jungalwala family I mentioned, and they had a phantom which may have been exported. Also, Jal cowasji did not buy the rolls from Cowasji batliboi. We are talking about two different cars. One may have left the country, the other to chor bazaar.The garages of the bungalow where the Batlibois still reside houses a mark 7 jag even today in a deplorable state.
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Old 26th June 2012, 18:50   #1672
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Hello Mr.Churchill,
Nice handle.
Know several members of your family and have seen you at the club so maybe we can catch up in person sometime and pool our info to achieve more clarity.
Congratulations on a lovely collection.
We are still talking at cross purposes.No confusion in my mind on the two Cowasjis,one a first name,one a surname,the seller the Christian name the buyer the family name.
You seem to have more info on the buyer than I do,so I will just shut up for the time being.
Had seen the Mark 7 when it was at a workshop near the zoo,had no idea it was rotting somewhere else now.anyway,the more it rots,the more value it acquires,at least that's what FB thinks.Never wanted it myself,but had been told years ago when similar cars were more freely available than at the present time,that I would not be able to afford it.
Cheers.
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Old 27th June 2012, 01:16   #1673
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Originally Posted by Bulldogji View Post
Hi 911987,Confusion galore. Cowasji batliboi was indeed the uncle of the two senior batlibois currently resident in that bungalow. However Jal Cowasji was someone entirely different, and not the uncle. Dont blame you for the confusion as the names are similar. In fact Jal cowasji is from the jungalwala family I mentioned, and they had a phantom which may have been exported. Also, Jal cowasji did not buy the rolls from Cowasji batliboi. We are talking about two different cars. One may have left the country, the other to chor bazaar.The garages of the bungalow where the Batlibois still reside houses a mark 7 jag even today in a deplorable state.
Interesting discussion. Sadly, I think the "Brabourne" car that I showed is the one that made it to Chor Bazaar ;and was probably "parted-out" or scrapped. If it had been exported, there is a probability it would have survived and shown up somewhere on a Google search.

Unfortunately I have no record of a Batliboi R-R or its chassis number. Maybe somone who knows the car is reading this and wil provide a clue!
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Old 28th June 2012, 04:41   #1674
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I believe the Qutab Minar is still in India, unless of course it got exported in the pre-ban days and ended up in the esteemed collection of the British Museum. Right next to Tutankhamen's treasures for the after-life.

Now on to the Hooper R-R Phantom I.....where is she now ?

Pastel Strawberry & Red........making up my own story, the privileged owner must have sent his wife's lipstick and nail polish to match the colours.

All kidding aside, there are four chassis numbers that this car could be, just don't know which one.

source: Illustrated London News, April 1928

Classic Rolls Royces in India-rr-pi-hooper-tourer-1928-qutab-minar-5-large.jpg

The Ravana and his "R-R Vahana" story will follow in a few days.

Last edited by travancore : 28th June 2012 at 04:46.
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Old 29th June 2012, 21:45   #1675
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Although this Rolls is not in India, I feel this car has an Indian connection (Bhatarpur?) This car is being showcased at the Goodwood festival by RR

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Source: Rolls-Royce cars at the Goodwood Festival of Speed | Facebook
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Old 29th June 2012, 22:15   #1676
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Although this Rolls is not in India, I feel this car has an Indian connection (Bhatarpur?) This car is being showcased at the Goodwood festival by RR

Attachment 948957

Source: Rolls-Royce cars at the Goodwood Festival of Speed | Facebook
You are right, it is ex-Bharatpur. 1925 Chassis GSK-15 Windover
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Old 30th June 2012, 17:26   #1677
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Since the Batliboi Rolls is flavour of the month, allow me to stir the pot.

We have a moderator with the same family name (and possibly some connection to the same family), who had put up family (and extended family) pictures which included an early Rolls Tourer (though a saloon is being discussed).

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vinta...tml#post869992

Would the experts be able to tell us more about this other Rolls?

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Old 1st July 2012, 15:30   #1678
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Although this Rolls is not in India, I feel this car has an Indian connection (Bhatarpur?) This car is being showcased at the Goodwood festival by RR
A video review of the car can be seen here

Video: Goodwood Festival of Speed: Driving the Queen's cars - Telegraph
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Old 1st July 2012, 20:43   #1679
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A video review of the car can be seen here
Karl,
I haven't gone through this entire thread so don't know if this is covered in it. But have you seen this "THE MAHARAJAS MOTOR CAR The Story of Rolls-Royce in India" on BBC

Last edited by deutscheafrikar : 1st July 2012 at 20:49.
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Old 3rd July 2012, 13:14   #1680
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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
This Bharatpur 20HP Rolls was lying together with the Farman and both the cars were in Mumbai and its surroundings. I had put up a picture of this car before.

From the net I got the following two items:

""Peter Vacher is a printer and publisher of academic journals with a passion for owning and restoring vintage Rolls-Royce cars. In 1982 when scouting around India for cars, he found the rusting remnants of an old British plane. This stayed at the back of his mind until 1996, when the wranglings to buy and remove the plane, which turned out to be a Mark 1 Hurricane R4118, began. In 2002 the plane was shipped back to England and carefully restored. It is now flying again, as it did in the Battle of Britain

Hawker Restorations Limited Restoration of Hurricane G-ROBT


Peter Vacher is the proud owner of an airworthy Battle of Britain veteran Hurricane – he talked to Ken Ellis about its epic recovery and restoration.
A WORLD-renowned institution links two elements of Peter Vacher’s life. This is Rolls-Royce, a name synonymous with precision and quality. Peter has taken the step from restoring classic Rolls-Royce cars to acquiring, restoring and now operating a Hawker Hurricane I – powered by a Rolls-Royce Merlin III.
After passing his driving test at 17, Peter bought a 1934 Standard Nine for £10 and started to learn about cars by looking after it and repairing it. Restoring motor cars became a hobby for him and he describes the process as “a real passion”.

Peter’s 1926 Silver Dowry car, built for a Maharaja’s wife, following its painstaking restoration.
He developed a particular love for Rolls-Royces of the 1920s and 1930s. In 1970 Peter acquired a bare chassis and completed a restorations – he still has that one. Another project was a 1922 Silver Ghost which had previously been in use as a breakdown truck.
His last restorations was a 1926 Silver Dowry car, built for His Highness the Maharaja of Bharatpur as a gift for this wife. It was exported through Nepal in 1983 in poor state and described – pretty accurately – as “automotive spare parts”. It languished in store in the UK for a while and then Peter came by it. An epic eight-year restoration has resulted in a work of art.
INDIAN CONNECTION
A good friend of Peter’s, John Fasal, made many travels in India, seeking out and chronicling Rolls-Royces owned by Maharajas for an impressive book on the subject. Peter joined him in 1982 for a trip from Calcutta to Delhi, taking in princely state by princely state, asking for permission to look into garages, to look, photograph and admire.
At Varanasi, the Banaras Hindu University was on their ‘hit list’. It was known that the school had cars for technical instruction. To their delight, they found a Silver Ghost and Phantom I.
Alongside the workshop holding the cars was a walled compound. Just visible above the wall was a cockpit. Inspection found this to be from an intact, but very forlorn-looking Hurricane. At this stage, Peter had no interest in aircraft and thought no more about it.......""

These cars, the Farman and the 20HP Rolls left in the 1980's, they were in the custody of a mill owner and were sent out via Nepal.
I was told that VCCCI office bearers including Pranlal and Dossa took this up with the authorities, but the authorities were apparently not interested. Maybe they should have told them that Gandhiji had sat in that car, apparently our authorities are only interested in Gandhi Memorabilia and nothing else of our history and culture, these just have no place. Tipu's sword, Swan car are examples of this callousness.
There is a sister car to this 20HP, also a 20HP now with Sanghi. It was with a Ruia on Nepean Sea Road, bought by Vohra for around 80K. Soon after Vohra came back to India on a visit and he had heard that this Farman was being talked about in Uk among some auction houses. Price mentioned was 6L at that time.
I myself with some friends went in the night to a place in Byculla to see the Farman. The watchman told us that it was taken away 3 days before. Unfortunately I could never set my eyes on that Farman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deutscheafrikar View Post
Karl,
I haven't gone through this entire thread so don't know if this is covered in it. But have you seen this "THE MAHARAJAS MOTOR CAR The Story of Rolls-Royce in India" on BBC
This movie was shot and in the can before the first Cartier event of 2008, the person who made it interacted with a lot of us and later sent me a DVD of the documentary.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 3rd July 2012 at 13:24.
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