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Old 2nd May 2008, 16:56   #196
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Great work Travencore! it seems The Derby Phantoms is very lacking in detail indeed. Did the Prince Aly Khan cars actually come to India?
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Old 2nd May 2008, 17:09   #197
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
1932 / 2-MS; Windovers Saloon / Prince of Nepal / Robert Mayerhof, California
Attachment 12570

Raymond Gentile identifies this car as "Windovers" - contemporary websites as "Figoni-Falaschi". Truth or Dare ???

Couple of differences: Picture in the Gentile book has scuttle / cowl mounted wipers - above picture is roof header mounted

Lucas vs "American" type headlamps

Bullet vs stylized running lamps on wings

The bodywork in the two sources look amazingly "unique" and similar!
Of late I really doubt that is F&F coachwork. It just doesnt have the trademark lines. On a closer look though I see what appears to be a coachbuilders badge below the door. The shape and placement appears typically F&F, compare to the orange Delahaye. Many cars with questionably provenance were falsely badged F&F (take the Hartmann V-16 Caddy for example).

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Old 2nd May 2008, 18:59   #198
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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Of late I really doubt that is F&F coachwork. It just doesnt have the trademark lines. On a closer look though I see what appears to be a coachbuilders badge below the door. The shape and placement appears typically F&F, compare to the orange Delahaye. Many cars with questionably provenance were falsely badged F&F (take the Hartmann V-16 Caddy for example).
The Dalton Derby Phantoms book states:
PII No. 2MS Saloon Windovers Rebodied in 1937 by Figoni & Falaschi
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Old 2nd May 2008, 19:04   #199
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
The Dalton Derby Phantoms book states:
PII No. 2MS Saloon Windovers Rebodied in 1937 by Figoni & Falaschi
Thanks for clearing that up. Somehow this particular one doesn't do it for me. It looks more phony than flashy
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Old 3rd May 2008, 03:02   #200
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Here is what I know of RR PII Continentals with an "India" connection. All listings of Chassis#'s / owners are from "The RR Phantom II Continental" by Raymond Gentile.

1933 / 116-MY; Park Ward Saloon / Prince Aly Khan / Ernest Stern, U.S.A.
Mystery 1 According to Raymond Gentile's book 116MY is in the USA owned by Ernest Stern.
But the Rolls-Royce museum in Austria appear to have it?
1933 Phantom II
Continental Four Light Saloon
Coachwork by Park Ward
Chassis No. 116 MY
Engine No.: KB 75
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Images from Rolls-Royce Museum
(Navigate to "exhibits")
Was it ever in India? From what I have read of Prince Aly Khan (quite a character) he was visiting/living in India in the 30s but never seems to have had any connection with Nepal? Read on

Mystery 2
According to this museum this is a New Phantom (PI), which belonged to Prince Aly Khan of Nepal?? in the Forney museum in Denver Colorado.
The hood? and wheels? were originally gold plated and has only done 24,000 miles.

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Image from 1927 Rolls Royce at the Forney Museum

Who was Prince Aly Khan of Nepal? Which was his PI? The only reference I can find to him is from the Forney Museum website.
Prince Ali Ibrahim of Egypt had a PI 9TC Kellner limousine in Jan 1927.
Any ideas Travencore, or anyone?

Last edited by Julian UK : 3rd May 2008 at 03:08.
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Old 3rd May 2008, 03:20   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Great work Travencore! it seems The Derby Phantoms is very lacking in detail indeed. Did the Prince Aly Khan cars actually come to India?
I have no confirmation that any of the Aly Khan cars came to India, most of them were delivered to London adresses.

Yes, the Jodhpur car seems to be the last Continental going by the chassis listing

Julian, thanks for pointing out the "rebody" of the Nepal Continental by F-F. It is also interesting that "RR -The Derby Phantoms" has this to say about the car:
"Originally mounted by Windovers with a Saloon body, 2MS, in 1937 was sent by its SECOND owner HH The Prince of Nepal to F-F in Paris to have the Sports Saloon illustrated her fitted" . The book does not list the first owner!
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Old 3rd May 2008, 03:42   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Mystery 1 According to Raymond Gentile's book 116MY is in the USA owned by Ernest Stern.
But the Rolls-Royce museum in Austria appear to have it?
Was it ever in India? Mystery 2
According to this museum this is a New Phantom (PI), which belonged to Prince Aly Khan of Nepal?? in the Forney museum in Denver Colorado.
The hood? and wheels? were originally gold plated and has only done 24,000 miles.

Attachment 12771

Image from 1927 Rolls Royce at the Forney Museum

Who was Prince Aly Khan of Nepal?
Any ideas Travencore, or anyone?
reg 116MY / other listings - The "current owners" listed in the Gentile book was obviously at the time the book was published / last known owner. These exotic cars have a habit of crossing the Atlantic often! I am not surprised if it is now in Austria.

Prince Aly (Ali) Khan is much more widely known as "The Aga Khan" and is the leader of the Ismaili sect. I also believe 'The Aga Khan" is a hereditary title. They have owned many rare and exotic cars over the 20th century.

They must have been considered Royalty / "Head of State" by Rolls Royce; since one of the 17 (or 18 ???) Phantom IV's (Chassis # 4AF20 by Hooper) was delivered to the Aga Khan

There was never a "Prince Aly Khan of Nepal" . Hate to generalize, I think many car experts often get Eastern names / titles mixed up! Often, whatever looks / sound good goes

If anyone has any corrections / additions - please!
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Old 3rd May 2008, 04:23   #203
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Two Aga Khan (Aly/Ali Khan) Cars:

RR Phantom IV #4AF20 by Hooper (source: rrec)

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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1938 Delage D8-120 by Guillore (source: madle.org)
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Old 3rd May 2008, 05:21   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
There was never a "Prince Aly Khan of Nepal"
This is also the conclusion I had come to. Poetic licence, you can't even trust museums... trying to attract visitors. I wonder if the Fournay museum PI is the Prince Ali Ibraham PI, it states a Limousine but the photo looks like a Limousine landaulette. Their reason for the changing of the radiator badge from red to black is also a matter of great controversy.

Last edited by Julian UK : 3rd May 2008 at 05:31.
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Old 3rd May 2008, 09:59   #205
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I first suspected something afoul as Nepal is a Hindu kingdom, they cant have a Prince Ali Khan
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Old 3rd May 2008, 16:36   #206
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Prince Aly Khan was the son of Aga Khan III, Spritual leader of the Ismali sect and based in France for many years.
Prince Aly Khan was the father of the present Imam, the Aga Khan IV, and was also an international playboy having been married to Rita Hayworth at one time. He was also Pakistans Ambassador to the United Nations during 1958-60, and also served as Vice President of the UN general assembly.
His younger brother was Prince Sadrudin Khan who was at one time the UN High Commissioner for Refugees for a decade or so.

4AF20 by Hooper was delivered to HH The Aga Khan III, and was never in ownership of Prince Aly Khan. On the death of the Aga Khan III, the Imamate was given to Prince Karim ( son of Aly Khan ) rather than Prince Aly Khan. Prince Karim is the Aga Khan IV and present Imam.

I am not sure but the Aga Khan III was entitled to a 14 gun salute in pre partition India.
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Old 3rd May 2008, 20:27   #207
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Another Hyderabad Rolls Royce (1926 Phantom I Barker - Chassis # 71-DC) . Registration "10-R"
Original owner Nawab Wali Ud Dowla - P.M. to the Nizam (DKG - sure you know more!)

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Car may now be in the Louwman Collection, Holland
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Old 3rd May 2008, 20:41   #208
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Car may now be in the Louwman Collection, Holland
I made sure my father visited the Loumann collection when he last visited Amsterdam, primarily to see the Nabha Swan car. He did see the PMs car as well, but only took this rather poor photo.
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Old 4th May 2008, 05:33   #209
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Nawab of Bahawalpur 1928/29 RR Phantom I (Chassis # 45-WR by Thrupp & Maberly / later Barker) Registration "BWP-97".

Car was shown at the 1929 Cairo Motor Show, where it was bought by the Nawab. Car was later rebodied by Barker.

History & picture courtesy:
http://www.chassisregister.com/display/rr/45WR

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Old 4th May 2008, 15:33   #210
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I am here in Abu Dhabi without any reference books, and at the mercy of Google, but can someone with some reference books check out if any Phantom I or II was delivered new to the Khan of Kalat, circa 1927. The body is by Hooper.
It was gifted by the Khan to his Chief Advisor ( a friend of our family ) and stayed in the same family till quite recently. It has now been acquired by some so called collector. I know of some pictures on the net so will try to upload if possible.
Any info on this car would be welcome.
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