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Old 27th July 2016, 05:37   #2266
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Default Re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by kasli View Post
Based on the snaps which are posted here . The cars in the snap posted by Harit have Grebel lights while we see the regular P100 Lucas lights , so someone needs to visit that museum and request chassis details

Cheers
Name:  Bhiwandiwala RR PI 45LC Marchals TBHP.jpg
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The Birla Museum car actually wears a lovely pair of Marchal (probably Trilux) headlamps.

Whoever owned the car had some good taste; and knew what they were doing. Grebels to Marchals, cannot complain

p.s. I recently noticed that the Udaipur Phantom II has Marchals too.

Last edited by travancore : 27th July 2016 at 05:54.
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Old 28th July 2016, 17:08   #2267
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Default Re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
"H.R.P.Poddar" did have a Hooper Tourer (Chassis 91RF, 1927). I am told that car had rounded front wing edges; and a Vee windshield. I have not seen a picture of that car.

Mr.Poddar also had 45AL (WBA 2112) which later went to Protop Roy of Santosh ; and I believe was exported.

Maybe you can help us - check out the Museum car for us
You are right about the rounded front wings and the V-shaped windshield on #91RF. It also had Grebel wing- and headlights. The car was painted Blue and Black, it had R.P. in silver letters on the rear doors.
As for #45AL, this also had Grebel wing- and headlights but the body and bonnet were painted Ivory, the rest of the car being blue and black.
It had a cabinet placed in between the seats, for a thermos flask and cups as well as a pistol holder in one of the doors.
Both cars had ivory white steering wheels and knobs.
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Old 28th July 2016, 18:27   #2268
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Default Re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by kasli View Post
.... The cars in the snap posted by Harit have Grebel lights while we see the regular P100 Lucas lights, so someone needs to visit that museum and request chassis details Cheers
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Originally Posted by Boybentley View Post
... Both cars had ivory white steering wheels and knobs.
Here is another photo of the Bhiwandiwala car, side view. Unfortunately the focus was on the people, not on the car and so the front view is not in the photo.

Change of headlights was not unusual for a car more than 80 years old. Since Grebel's were not that cheap, the set may have been replaced by a "pair" of another type of suitable headlight. We have seen this happening very often, and whenever we purchased headlights from a scrapper, they more often came in single lights than in pairs.

Another point, how do we know that the Birla Museum car is the Bhiwandiwalla car? Someone must have seen the chassis number and then checked the records. It was not the other way round, that someone knew and then we have to check the number to confirm. Lets see where this goes forward.

Boybentley, do both the cars you mention survive?

Cheers harit
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Old 28th July 2016, 20:02   #2269
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
Another point, how do we know that the Birla Museum car is the Bhiwandiwalla car? Someone must have seen the chassis number and then checked the records. It was not the other way round, that someone knew and then we have to check the number to confirm. Lets see where this goes forward.

Boybentley, do both the cars you mention survive?

Cheers harit
I do not believe anyone has actually confirmed the chassis plate on the Birla Museum car. Waiting for mbz180 to do that for us

It has been an educated guess so far, comparing the features. The Birla car seems to have been presented to the Museum around 1965 by someone connected to the Metal Box Company.

The other change (besides headlamps) is that the car since the mid sixties has had a black steering (originally white)

45LC (Bhiwandiwala) must have been an interesting car - painted Bharatpur Blue, with body and bonnet sides in Silver.

On the Podaar cars, I am told that 45AL (WBA-2112) was exported and survives.

Last edited by travancore : 28th July 2016 at 20:09.
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Old 28th July 2016, 20:38   #2270
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As far as I know #45AL lives in Switzerland, I do not know if #91RF is still around.
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Old 3rd August 2016, 20:38   #2271
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Photos have been posted on Facebook Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan ( VCCCP) of a Rolls Royce . ( ref: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vccc...uery=RR%201919 )


This car is 1928 GWL2, a Rolls Royce Twenty. It belongs to my dear friend Mr. Moin, son of the famous Sheikh Mukhtar.
This car was bought by Sheikh Mukhtar circa 1984-85 in Karachi, Pakistan. At this time he had also bought , separately, an early 1920's Daimler open drive Landaulet, from a Christian Mission to which it had been gifted by a patron, and a 1932-3 12 cylinder Lincoln KB tourer, from a Turkish gentlemen Mr. Murad Bey who had taken up residence in Karachi. Both these car were in good nick and were exported to England and USA respectively by Sheikh Mukhtar Sahib. The RR Twenty remained as it was in partially dismantled condition.
Sheikh Mukhtar bought GWL2 from a local businessman who had in turn got it in part payment against a gambling debt. The fellow who lost in the gambling was unable to pay, but had refused to part with the car and having secreted it behind four pukka brick walls had gone in hiding. After the death of this fellow, the gambling debt was claimed and actualized by the winner from the family and included the car. (ref: Mr. Mohsin quoting Late Mr Jehanzeb, the man who originally discovered this car in Karachi.)
John Fasal's RR Twenty tome lists the car having Engine No I 9 S and tourer body by Barker and original owner was J. E. V. Jobson .
So far there is little actual history as to how this RR, which is not a direct import to India got to Karachi but may have been bought from some touring Englishmen by an Indian family and most likely have been abandoned in a house at time of partition ( 1947) by the owners who never came back to claim it. (conjecture)

I became infatuated with GWL2 car in 1988, when I discovered, on the same day, this car as well as a 3 litre Bentley in separate but open garages, in a state of neglect. For this I thank my dear friend Jim Agha, past President of VCCCP. The RR was complete, on tyres, with a horizontal slatted Radiator in perfect condition , missing the Top folding roof and a couple of doors as well as the seats etc. All instruments were present. The engine was complete with spark plug cables attached. I had then started the restoration of another RR Twenty Chassis No GZK-18, Engine G1653 with a later body by Flewit Birmingham England, ( originally an A J McNaught saloon, which was imported from UK by a friend and now resides in Europe.
I was smitten and pursued to buy this car with my friend for many years but they were not selling. I even bought an original mascot for it planning to completely restore it. I also sold my 1930 Chrysler in anticipation, to raise the money ( Rs. 125,000 was agreed to at one glorious but short lived weak moment by Mr Moin). However the family, close friends and gracious people, could not be pestered endlessly and I blotted out the dream from my mind in 1995 and started a ten year pursuit of the RR P-II 76WJ, also with family acquaintances, and also unsuccessfully as the price kept being raised.
Coming back to GWL2,
I think in 1995, the Radiator was removed for safekeeping and I had gone to measure it for a friend to make a copy for a replica. That was the last time I saw it and was told by Mr. Moin that it was misplaced or stolen soon after and never recovered to date to the best of my knowledge.
The owners shifted residence to USA and the car was first stored in a covered garage where I saw it again in 1999.
The car has now deteriorated much but has potential still and you never know that the family may decide to restore it . Alas I am no longer a candidate as I have my hands full and am satiated.


Amer Ahmad
Lahore, Pakistan
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Old 4th August 2016, 00:06   #2272
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Many thanks for chronicling Karachi's rooftop R-R's life, a fascinating story indeed! and one of many unsolvable R-R mysteries of the subcontinent...cheers!
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Old 4th August 2016, 09:55   #2273
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Default Re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
Photos have been posted on Facebook Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan ( VCCCP) of a Rolls Royce . ( ref: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vccc...uery=RR%201919 )


This car is 1928 GWL2, a Rolls Royce Twenty. It belongs to my dear friend Mr. Moin, son of the famous Sheikh Mukhtar.
This car was bought by Sheikh Mukhtar circa 1984-85 in Karachi, Pakistan. At this time he had also bought , separately, an early 1920's Daimler open drive Landaulet, from a Christian Mission to which it had been gifted by a patron, and a 1932-3 12 cylinder Lincoln KB tourer, from a Turkish gentlemen Mr. Murad Bey who had taken up residence in Karachi. Both these car were in good nick and were exported to England and USA respectively by Sheikh Mukhtar Sahib. The RR Twenty remained as it was in partially dismantled condition.

Sheikh Mukhtar bought GWL2 from a local businessman who had in turn got it in part payment against a gambling debt. The fellow who lost in the gambling was unable to pay, but had refused to part with the car and having secreted it behind four pukka brick walls had gone in hiding. After the death of this fellow, the gambling debt was claimed and actualized by the winner from the family and included the car. (ref: Mr. Mohsin quoting Late Mr Jehanzeb, the man who originally discovered this car in Karachi.)
John Fasal's RR Twenty tome lists the car having Engine No I 9 S and tourer body by Barker and original owner was J. E. V. Jobson .
Thanks so much for sharing this priceless information. I believe the car also had an Udaipur connection. Attached is a copy of the build sheet from their website, showing the name of Jobson as well as many others, all scratched out. Not too sure what it implies.

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Last edited by karlosdeville : 4th August 2016 at 09:56.
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Old 17th August 2016, 21:55   #2274
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Here is another car from india for sale thru the auction house Bonhams

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23594/lot/494/

Chassis 47YC Phantom 1

Cheers
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Old 27th August 2016, 05:11   #2275
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Classic Rolls Royces in India-bhopal-rr-piii-3bu86-matrix-143-scale-model.jpg

Name:  Bhopal RR PIII 3BU86 Matrix 143 Scale Model Rear 3Q L Top.jpg
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A very well executed 1/43 scale model of the Bhopal RR PIII 3BU86 by Matrix.
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Old 3rd September 2016, 13:18   #2276
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Default Re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Maybe we have seen this picture here, though I could'nt find it, this picture is supposedly of the fleet of rolls royce of Bharatpur

Is it Bharatpur ? or this could be Bhawalpur ?

Classic Rolls Royces in India-fleet-rolls-royce-bharatpur.jpg


Classic Rolls Royces in India-back-side-rolls-royce-fleet.jpg
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Old 3rd September 2016, 17:38   #2277
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Originally Posted by KartikeyaL View Post
Maybe we have seen this picture here, though I could'nt find it, this picture is supposedly of the fleet of rolls royce of Bharatpur

Is it Bharatpur ? or this could be Bhawalpur ?

Attachment 1550305


Attachment 1550306
Yes, it is the Bharatpur fleet.
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Old 12th September 2016, 21:24   #2278
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Spotted at a religious function on CALCUTTA streets

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Old 12th September 2016, 23:14   #2279
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The 1935 Rolls Royce 20/25 HP owned by Mr Sarvaiah of Kolkata at the Statesman 2016 Rally at Kolkata. The Rolls occassionally is at Nagpur too during a few months every year as the owner has an establishment here too.

Classic Rolls Royces in India-img_20160131_093127043.jpg

(More pictures later as these are above 3.00 MB)
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Old 13th September 2016, 09:13   #2280
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The 1935 Rolls Royce 20/25 HP owned by Mr Sarvaiah of Kolkata at the Statesman 2016 Rally at Kolkata. The Rolls occassionally is at Nagpur too during a few months every year as the owner has an establishment here too.

Attachment 1553514

(More pictures later as these are above 3.00 MB)
The car looks like Mr Momen's Vanden Plas 25/30 cabriolet
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