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Old 7th May 2008, 11:33   #241
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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Hi Alvis, did the car look anything like this ? (Bhopal 1926 Bentley 6 1/2 Boattail - Hunting car by Thrupp & Maberly)

Attachment 13510
No way! This one is something else, in a class by itself.

It looked very very similiar to this one, body by H.J. Mulliner. looks so bland and downright boring compared to the Bhopal hunting car.
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Old 7th May 2008, 12:01   #242
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A respected acquaintance tells me the present Rajasthan CM aparently has a couple of RR's (her ex hubby was HH Dholpur ??) which are in much better shape as compared to others that had been jacked up for years. I think these cars were shifted to Jaipur recently. Could anyone with pictures of these cars please post them

PS I think it would be appropriate if we create a thread dedicated to the Darbhanga family collection of cars. So many great RR and Bentleys surviving in India come from that family. Its only appropriate they are viewed together. Perhaps with pictures of the palaces there too to put things in perspective? Manvendra Singh once told me Darbhanga had only 9 miles of tarmac!! No wonder those 100 odd cars remained in such pristine condition. The Darbhanga RR PIII I saw unrestored with Mr. Sanghi is truly an imposing machine. Beautiful

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Old 7th May 2008, 16:06   #243
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Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
Col Haider Khan did actually serve in Kalat but he never had a Rolls Royce, rather a Bentley 6 1/2 litre Speed Six. I missed getting that car by one day to someone else in 1971. I was 15 then and my grand father had remembered that Col Haider had a Bentley and it might make a good first car for me!!
We drove down to Nowshera from Rawalpindi in our Bentley R type ( B31TO) but Col haider told us that he had just sold it to a common family friend yesterday who had it towed behind a Jeep. And the sale was well within our planned budget, we had budgeted Rs 5000, it was sold for Rs 4,500.
Very sadly the car was purchased with the intent of exporting it out and within three months it had left for the UK.
Take care
Wow in today's money that car would have exchanged hands in excess of 50 lakhs or probably more!

To miss a car by one day is destiny. Hope you will be luckier the next time.
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Old 7th May 2008, 16:50   #244
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Wow in today's money that car would have exchanged hands in excess of 50 lakhs or probably more!

To miss a car by one day is destiny. Hope you will be luckier the next time.
I remember to this day I just burst out crying in the verandah of Col Haiders bunglow and the drive back to Rawalpindi was in total silence.
Still waiting to get lucky!!
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Old 7th May 2008, 19:27   #245
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Thanks Travancore

Rusting? I thought they were in pretty fine condition? Sorry to hear if they had been neglected. The family also had several small aircraft in a palace garage. Wonder if its all there.

PS Which royal family was that which had cars up in a hillstation and before a fire (or after it) they managed to shift the cars to Punjab? Was it not Faridkot? The cars are held in a trust I think.
Yes, rusting away (couple of RR's and WWII jeeps/other;, at least one Bentley) is indeed what I read in an Indian web magazine article - will dig it out tonight. There is also a picture of at least one of the Faridkot aircraft (at the palace museum) on flickr.com

Think it was also Faridkot that had the fire.
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Old 7th May 2008, 19:54   #246
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Thanks Travancore

Rusting? I thought they were in pretty fine condition? Sorry to hear if they had been neglected. The family also had several small aircraft in a palace garage. Wonder if its all there.

PS Which royal family was that which had cars up in a hillstation and before a fire (or after it) they managed to shift the cars to Punjab? Was it not Faridkot? The cars are held in a trust I think.
Here are two snippets from the web (trusting there is poetic licence here!):

(source: The Tribune, Dec 1, 2001): The Tribune - Windows - Feature

The Maharaja of Darbhanga had a number of Rolls-Royces and according to a recent newspaper report, six of them are rusting in the old family garage at Darbhanga.

The Maharaja of Faridkot too was fond of Rolls-Royce. Late last year, one automobile enthusiast managed to get a peep into the padlocked palace garage and came back goggle-eyed after counting six Rolls-Royces, two Bentleys and four Jaguars rusting away. =================================================
source: faridkot (4dw.net/royalark/india)

Following independence, Raja Har Indar Singh (Faridkot), continued his interest in military affairs, but also turned his attention to business and farming matters. Though hounded by the Indian tax authorities throughout his life, in financial terms he managed better than most princes. He also amassed a wonderful collection of vintage motor vehicles at his properties near Simla. Included amongst them, several unique Rolls-Royce cars, military vehicles, and aircraft from the Second World War.
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Old 8th May 2008, 05:04   #247
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Mystery of the Raja of Puducottah Rolls Royce:

Below is the "Puducotta" 1912 RR mentioned / illustrated in "The Tribune" article in the previous thread (#246). This looks very much like a "Balloon Roadster"

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=========================================

It is interesting that the following "Puducotta" car (1912 RR Silver Ghost; Chassis #1948) was "rebodied" by Crailville to the "correct" (as delivered) Holmes London-Edinbugh torpedo style:
(source: Crailville Ltd: Coachwork: Rolls: 1912 Silver Ghost Torpedo)

During rebodying

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At Pebble Beach (photo must be reversed - looks LHD!)

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Could these be the same car???

Ironically, the famed Patiala (now Kadoorie / Hong Kong Peninsula) RR Silver Ghost London-Edinburgh (Chassis # 1958) is very similar
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Old 9th May 2008, 05:20   #248
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Here are the PIII records of 21 cars that came to India.

3AZ 47 Limousine Hooper 1936 July H.E Viceroy of India
3AZ 198 Limousine Hooper 1936 Dec Commander-in-Chief Delhi
3AX 87 Saloon Limousine Barker 1937 June The Nawab of Bahawalpur
3AX147 Limousine Gurney Nutting 1937 Feb The Maharajah Holkar of Indore
3AX201 Limousine Hooper 1937 Mar The Maharajah Gaekwar of Baroda
3BU 50 Landaulette Thrupp and Maberley 1937Mar The Maharajah of Darbhanga
3BU 76 Sedanca de Ville Barker 1937 June The Maharajah of Jaipur
3BU 82 Sedanca de Ville Hooper 1937June The Maharani of Nabha
3BU 86 Allweather Thrupp and Maberley 1937 April The Nawab of Bhopal
3BU 102 Limousine Hooper 1937 April The Maharajah of Jodhpur
3BU 106 Limousine Kellner 1937 Feb The Maharani of Baroda
3BU 134 Open Tourer Barker 1937 July The Maharajah of Kolhapur
3BU 198 Sedanca de Ville Windovers 1937 April The Maharajah of Rajpipla
3BT 75 Saloon Windovers 1937 July The Maharawal of Chhota Udaipur
3BT 181 Allweather Barker 1937 Sept The Ruling Chief of Keonjhar State
3CP 112 Saloon Windovers 1937 Nov The Prince of Baroda
3CP 116 Cabriolet Windovers 1938 Feb The Prince of Berar
3CM 37 Saloon Park Ward 1938 Jan The Maharajah of Panchakote
3DL 26 Cabriolet Thrupp and Maberley 1938 July The Rajah of Parlakimedi
3DL 90 Limousine Park Ward 1938 Sept Indian trials
3DL 96 4 Seater Sports Park Ward 1938 Nov The Maharajah Saheb of Morvi
3DL 200 Drop Head coupe Park Ward 1939 Nov High Commissioner for India
For those of you that love pictures of RR Phantom III's more than words

(source: A million thanks to "Praeclarum" - The Federal Journal of the Rolls Royce Owners Club of Australia)

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Classic Rolls Royces in India-baroda-piii-large.jpg

Last edited by travancore : 9th May 2008 at 05:24. Reason: typo
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Old 9th May 2008, 06:17   #249
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errr.....

wish I had the time....
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Old 9th May 2008, 12:57   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
I get a feeling this is a Park Ward P III, very difficult to judge from a straight shot, but I guess two door. Twin sidemounts look fantastic and the radatior shutters seem closed. From memory I believe that thermostatically controlled shutters were not available in post '37 cars. I'm playing a guessing game here!!
This Phantom III is Bahawalpur's 3AX87 (Barker armoured saloon with division)
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Old 9th May 2008, 13:47   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
I shot off a note to VCCCP yesterday requesting that they identify the RR cars on their "Discoveries" page ( atleast the year/model/chassis # if avialable). Need to go back and check! I was going to ask if Julian or Alvis could identify the three Bahawalpur cars.
=========================================

Meanwhile, another Bahawalpur 1924 RR Silver Ghost by Barker (BWP-1) is displayed in beautiful condition at the Hotel Pearl Continental in Pakistan (do not know the city). This car is shown earlier in the thread and also on the VCCCP website

photos courtesy aamirchoudhry at flickr.com

Attachment 13359

Attachment 13360
Hello Tranvancore,
This is chassis #82RM, a 1924 Barker limousine de ville. It is used by a hire company called Pakistan Services Ltd.
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Old 9th May 2008, 14:32   #252
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Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
Three of the cars from Bahawalpur at the time of their auction around 2006 or so. Hope they have found loving and caring homes after years of sad neglect. Pics are courtesy of Pakwheels.

Any further info comments would be welcome.
Hello Alvis
These 3 Bahawalpur cars are PII #180PY (blue Barker fixed-head coupe), PI #39MC, rebodied by Barker and PIII #3AX87 reg'd BWP-205 already desc'd in my previous msg.
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Old 9th May 2008, 14:46   #253
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Originally Posted by Alvis View Post
I am here in Abu Dhabi without any reference books, and at the mercy of Google, but can someone with some reference books check out if any Phantom I or II was delivered new to the Khan of Kalat, circa 1927. The body is by Hooper.
It was gifted by the Khan to his Chief Advisor ( a friend of our family ) and stayed in the same family till quite recently. It has now been acquired by some so called collector. I know of some pictures on the net so will try to upload if possible.
Any info on this car would be welcome.
Alvis,
The car of by Khan of Kalat was PII #76WJ, a Hooper tourer.
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Old 9th May 2008, 15:24   #254
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Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Mystery 1 According to Raymond Gentile's book 116MY is in the USA owned by Ernest Stern.
But the Rolls-Royce museum in Austria appear to have it?
1933 Phantom II
Continental Four Light Saloon
Coachwork by Park Ward
Chassis No. 116 MY
Engine No.: KB 75
Attachment 12769
Attachment 12770
Images from Rolls-Royce Museum
(Navigate to "exhibits")
Was it ever in India? From what I have read of Prince Aly Khan (quite a character) he was visiting/living in India in the 30s but never seems to have had any connection with Nepal? Read on

Mystery 2
According to this museum this is a New Phantom (PI), which belonged to Prince Aly Khan of Nepal?? in the Forney museum in Denver Colorado.
The hood? and wheels? were originally gold plated and has only done 24,000 miles.

Attachment 12771

Image from 1927 Rolls Royce at the Forney Museum

Who was Prince Aly Khan of Nepal? Which was his PI? The only reference I can find to him is from the Forney Museum website.
Prince Ali Ibrahim of Egypt had a PI 9TC Kellner limousine in Jan 1927.
Any ideas Travencore, or anyone?
The car in the Forney museum is PI #46RF. First owner was a David W. Batsholts of Switzerland. The Aly Khan allegation probably has the same origin as the dozens of "Hitler's Mercedes" you can come across in car museums all over the world !!
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Old 9th May 2008, 15:55   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
3BT121 Drop head coupe Mayfair 1937 June orig. UK Reg DYR 232 Winner of L'Exposition, France 1937
It came to India later so is not in the first owner list.

3DL200 First owner is listed as the High Commissioner for India then later was given to the King of Afghanistan.

The main point of interest for me is that there are 22 cars in this list so one of them maybe didn't go to India. These 4 cars were originally registered in the UK with the following Registration numbers:
3BT121 Drop head coupe Mayfair 1937 June was first registered in the UK as DYR 232
3BU 50 The Maharajah of Darbhanga's car was first registered in the UK as DXR 555
3BU 76 The Maharajah of Jaipur's car was first registered in the UK as DYK 487
3DL 90 For Indian trials was first registered in the UK as FXX 100
I presume that the "Indian trials" car never went to India? Does anyone have any record of 3DL 90 in India?
Julian,
Because of the war, 3DL90 never went to India, the order was cancelled and it was sold to Jack Barclay on 19/06/1942. I don't have any connection between 3BT121 and India.
Andre Blaize
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