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Old 11th May 2008, 08:48   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
Hi Travancore,
L.Dalton used the order ledgers to write his books, whereas Bernard King & Nick Whitaker used the guarantee books (delivery ledgers).
Have Bernard King & Nick Whitaker published a book on RR chassis numbers and owners ?

Also any idea when John Fasal's book on "Rolls Royces in Princely India" may be published ? It has been a few years in the making and I thought it was to have been published in 2006/7
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Old 11th May 2008, 09:07   #287
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Unidentified / Misidentified "Indian" Rolls Royces:

Here are two (possibly PIII's) that have not been positively identified:

Name:  Maharaja RR PIII photo taken in Rajkot.jpg
Views: 4325
Size:  76.6 KB
(source: Team-BHP; picture taken at Rajkot)

Initially I thought this may be Phantom III - 3DL26 Thrupp & Maberly - Maharaja of Parlakamedi; but the vents/louvres on the side of the bonnet are very different.

===============================

Name:  DHARBANGA ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM III 1936 THRUPP FRONT 3Q.JPG
Views: 4055
Size:  70.7 KB

Name:  DHARBANGA ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM III 1936 THRUPP REAR 3Q.JPG
Views: 4699
Size:  57.2 KB

(source: Vantage Motorworks, Inc.)

This car was advertised as a 1936 Phantom III - 3AZ178 formerly belonging to the Maharaja of Dharbanga

However this chassis # belongs to a Barker Limousine, per the Derby Phantoms.

Is this a PIII at all ?

Or, could this be a rebody on 3BU50 (originally a Thrupp & Maberly Landaulette / Dharbanga)
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Old 11th May 2008, 11:47   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Have Bernard King & Nick Whitaker published a book on RR chassis numbers and owners ?

Also any idea when John Fasal's book on "Rolls Royces in Princely India" may be published ? It has been a few years in the making and I thought it was to have been published in 2006/7
Yes they have, but it's out of print. See COMPLETE CLASSICS - Rolls-Royce and Bentley Books, Photos, History, Information. Re. John Fasal's forthcoming book I didn't bring the subject last time I met him. The problem with books if that you must finance them before they go to press !! and it can take a couple of years before you break even. Find a sponsor and the book is in the shop the following month !
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Old 11th May 2008, 11:54   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Unidentified / Misidentified "Indian" Rolls Royces:

Here are two (possibly PIII's) that have not been positively identified:

Attachment 14354
(source: Team-BHP; picture taken at Rajkot)

Initially I thought this may be Phantom III - 3DL26 Thrupp & Maberly - Maharaja of Parlakamedi; but the vents/louvres on the side of the bonnet are very different.

===============================

Attachment 14355

Attachment 14356

(source: Vantage Motorworks, Inc.)

This car was advertised as a 1936 Phantom III - 3AZ178 formerly belonging to the Maharaja of Dharbanga

However this chassis # belongs to a Barker Limousine, per the Derby Phantoms.

Is this a PIII at all ?

Or, could this be a rebody on 3BU50 (originally a Thrupp & Maberly Landaulette / Dharbanga)
Travancore,
Both id. are correct (3DL26 & 3AZ178). The bonnet louvres are correct. You were fooled by L.Dalton who misplaced the photos in "Coachwork on RR", 3DL26 is on the right page and vice versa.
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Old 11th May 2008, 16:54   #290
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Hello Travancore,

Hereby some Indian Silver Ghost pictures.

#18KG 1922 Silver Ghost Barker Limousine Maharaja of Patiala
#35PP 1919 Silver Ghost Barker Open Drive Limousine Maharaja of Indore
#2154 1912 Silver Ghost Barker Tourer Raja of Nabha

Regards-Henk
Attached Images
   
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Old 11th May 2008, 17:23   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
Travancore,
Both id. are correct (3DL26 & 3AZ178). The bonnet louvres are correct. You were fooled by L.Dalton who misplaced the photos in "Coachwork on RR", 3DL26 is on the right page and vice versa.
Hi park-ward!

You always seem to come through with your (obvious) expert knowledge on things RR. So now we have 2 more Indian PIII's identified with pictures. Which leaves a very few unidentified. Thanks

So what is the story with 3AZ178 ? Is this misidentified as a "Barker Saloon" by the Derby Phantoms, or did it have a rebody ? Certainly does not look like a saloon now!

Last edited by travancore : 11th May 2008 at 17:43. Reason: added comment
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Old 11th May 2008, 17:56   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justrolls1 View Post
Hello Travancore,

Here are some pictures from Indian Rolls-Royce PIII, I hope the chasisnumbers are correct.

Regards-Henk
Welcome aboard justrolls1! We are having a blast here and glad you could join!

3BU86 is the Bhopal Phantom III. The very first picture looks like the Jaipur car. The others I need to reasearch further.
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Old 11th May 2008, 21:56   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justrolls1 View Post
Hello Travancore,

Here are some pictures from Indian Rolls-Royce PIII, I hope the chasisnumbers are correct.

Regards-Henk
Hi justrolls1 / Henk:

I need to apologize! I did not see the Chassis #'s initially, but looks like your file names for the pictures contain chassis numbers and some history!

Looks like the red car is RR PIII 3BU134 (Kolhapur) today

The Dharbanga PIII (dark blue) seems to have been rebodied by Thrupp & Maberly from the earlier Barker Limousine / Saloon

The others are obviously the Bhopal and Jaipur PIII's.

Please confirm the above. Again, I'm sorry!
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Old 12th May 2008, 01:58   #294
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Welcome justrolls, I hope you can cope with having to wade through the labyrinth of threads that have evolved here. Maybe one day it can all be put in some order.
julian uk
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Old 12th May 2008, 02:45   #295
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Pardon my indulgence but they are so similar apart from a bit more legroom in 18KG. The Patiala Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost #18KG next to the 1920 Daimler TS 6-30 ex Dhanraj Giri (thank you DKG) I spent 18 months restoring the mechanical department of in Delhi, (crank ground, new Frys white metal and rings and new bearings everywhere) with my family aboard in a Delhi rally in the mid 90s. I still remember spirally winding the outside of each new cotton covered wire of all the wiring with aluminium wire, as sheathed wire was not available. It was as quiet as a Ghost due to sleeve valves, which were thankfully intact. Under the front wings Barker had used reinforcement plates for the side light mountings cut out of Barker body nameplates. They can only have been fitted by Barker.
Thank you for the RR photo justrolls1.
Name:  1920 Daimler TS 6 30 and RR 18KG 1922.JPG
Views: 3777
Size:  65.5 KB
Apologies for interrupting the flow of things so back to some serious number crunching….

Last edited by Julian UK : 12th May 2008 at 02:55. Reason: Merlot
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Old 12th May 2008, 03:39   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justrolls1 View Post
Hello Travancore,

Hereby some Indian Silver Ghost pictures.

#18KG 1922 Silver Ghost Barker Limousine Maharaja of Patiala
#35PP 1919 Silver Ghost Barker Open Drive Limousine Maharaja of Indore
#2154 1912 Silver Ghost Barker Tourer Raja of Nabha

Regards-Henk
Hello justrolls1

Great work, these pictures are outstanding!

I am attaching a copy of the body card for the Patiala SG - 18KG. It is hardly readable, but hey!

(source: unknown)
Name:  Patiala Silver Ghost 1922 Barker Chassis 18KG Body 4790 Builders card1.jpg
Views: 3076
Size:  55.3 KB

================================================== ======

Also another "Patiala" SG - Barker Double Cabriolet. Maybe one of our RR experts can figure out the Chassis#
(source unknown)
Name:  Patiala Siver Ghost 192X Barker Double Cabriolet1.jpg
Views: 3130
Size:  34.9 KB

================================================== ========

The Nabha car (#2154) is one of the few to be officially allowed a "name" - like "Silver Ghost" for AX201.

This Nabha SG was the "Taj Mahal". Anyone have a closeup of the silver name plate on the cowl, just below the windshield ? (Of course, all of this "expert" info is courtesy of my time at the Internet University!)
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Old 12th May 2008, 03:42   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian UK View Post
Pardon my indulgence but they are so similar apart from a bit more legroom in 18KG. The Patiala Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost #18KG next to the 1920 Daimler TS 6-30 ex Dhanraj Giri (thank you DKG)
Attachment 14619
Apologies for interrupting the flow of things so back to some serious number crunching….
Come on back in Julian...you been silent for a while! Great job comparing the two cars!!!
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Old 12th May 2008, 08:47   #298
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Hi Park-Ward, lovely to see another passionate BHPian join in with interesting pictures and information.

If its not asking too much, as I gather you've done quite some research on the RR's in the subcontinent, may I suggest you collate all the pictures posted already with notes on chassis numbers, provenance, shipping details, special order features and post them together in a post or two? That way to a new reader the context is set and makes it easier to understand. Also such handiwork on your part could in future lead to such posts being held separately as reference material.

Kindly oblige, and thanks
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Old 12th May 2008, 11:16   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
This Phantom III is Bahawalpur's 3AX87 (Barker armoured saloon with division)
Was 3AX87 the first armoured saloon in India?
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Old 12th May 2008, 16:48   #300
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I've found 3 pictures of the PII 121GY 1930 Hooper limousine, (first owner H.Walker), at the Rambagh hotel in Jaipur after the Queenie film shooting. With its previous owner, the car was undergoing "restoration" when we left Delhi. I'd cleaned out the block/head and replaced the rotten water manifolds and fitted a water pump repair kit. The engine wasn't bad and on examination was found to have sound crankshaft bearings, no cracks and little scoring. It had good compression and ran well in the film.
Classic Rolls Royces in India-121gy-pii-1930-hooper-1.jpg
Classic Rolls Royces in India-121gy-pii-1930-hooper-2.jpg
Classic Rolls Royces in India-121gy-pii-1930-hooper-3.jpg

Last edited by Julian UK : 12th May 2008 at 16:54.
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