Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Vintage Cars & Classics in India > Pre-War


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2008, 14:02   #436
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,532
Thanked: 7,557 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Attached is the pic of a Rolls Royce in India taken probably in the early 1970's, still languishing in the countryside somewhere.
It is confirmed that the car is still alive as I am told by a very reliable but tight lipped source, that this car still exists. Where, he would not say, though in what condition it would be in today, would be interesting.
There Body seems to be modified.Can anyone identify the year and type of Rolls this is or where this car is today? Any info would be welcome.
Wow what a find gogi! Im not positive this is a genuine Rolls though. It seems to be a mix and match of a lot of things, and for it to have been done back then is quite exciting. Spill a few more beans D
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 15:03   #437
BHPian
 
TractionAvant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pune
Posts: 189
Thanked: 89 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Attached is the pic of a Rolls Royce in India taken probably in the early 1970's, still languishing in the countryside somewhere.
It is confirmed that the car is still alive as I am told by a very reliable but tight lipped source, that this car still exists. Where, he would not say, though in what condition it would be in today, would be interesting.
There Body seems to be modified.Can anyone identify the year and type of Rolls this is or where this car is today? Any info would be welcome.
What a curious Rolls Royce!! The front wings are very Jaguar XK120. The rear, a bit 50s american.
TractionAvant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 15:28   #438
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N Delhi/Pune/Kolkata/Schwarzenfeld
Posts: 884
Thanked: 275 Times
Default

[quote=V-16;889469]Attached is the pic of a Rolls Royce in India taken probably in the early 1970's, still languishing in the countryside somewhere. Attachment 26105

Whichever make of automobile this is, the picture is certainly of the 80s, given the reverse light in the Premier Padmini.
Prabal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:06   #439
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Wow what a find gogi! Im not positive this is a genuine Rolls though. It seems to be a mix and match of a lot of things, and for it to have been done back then is quite exciting. Spill a few more beans D
I wish I had more info and some more beans to spill. Unfortunately this is all i have so I put it here for the experts to see and comment on.
It is a genuine Rolls according to my friend
I have some doubts.
Note the front fender bulge as it blends in the front and rear doors. Definitely an American influence. Also I dont know of any such bodied Rolls hence I said that the body looks modified.
Also note the wheels. More like from a late 1930s early 1040s era. The front of this car looks like a mid to late 50s front. More reminiscent of the Bentley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TractionAvant View Post
What a curious Rolls Royce!! The front wings are very Jaguar XK120. The rear, a bit 50s american.
Quite right. The rear reminds me of a late 40s Buick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Whichever make of automobile this is, the picture is certainly of the 80s, given the reverse light in the Premier Padmini.
Not quite Prabal. I remember having a late 60's fiat with chrome surrounded rear lights as extra fittings bought from outside the company. I remember this from the early seventies, i think 1971 to be more precise.
This car seems to have those lights. Im not too sure of the era though. It was told to me that this pic was of the time, so I mentioned it. Wouldn't quite push it to the 80s only on that count.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:20   #440
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N Delhi/Pune/Kolkata/Schwarzenfeld
Posts: 884
Thanked: 275 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Not quite Prabal. I remember having a late 60's fiat with chrome surrounded rear lights as extra fittings bought from outside the company. I remember this from the early seventies, i think 1971 to be more precise.
This car seems to have those lights. Im not too sure of the era though. It was told to me that this pic was of the time, so I mentioned it. Wouldn't quite push it to the 80s only on that count.
Gogi, to me the lights look like the all-plastic bodied ones (with a thin chrome ring at the base) that came in the 80s and the hubcaps (dented though) look like the Padminis of that period as well. That's why I pointed it out. I may be wrong though.

But, ki fark paenda hai, Rolls di to vaj chuki si!!

Last edited by Prabal : 3rd July 2008 at 16:31.
Prabal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:33   #441
BHPian
 
TractionAvant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: pune
Posts: 189
Thanked: 89 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Note the front fender bulge as it blends in the front and rear doors. Definitely an American influence. Also I dont know of any such bodied Rolls hence I said that the body looks modified.
My guess would be that the fenders proper are from another car & the matching bulges on the doors are fabricated to match these parts.

OT, but is that a humber in the background? Also, there seems to be something quite impressive between the two.
TractionAvant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 06:40   #442
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 105
Thanked: 150 Times
Default Second hand Phantom IIIs

In post 432 DKG says that it's unusual for someone like a Maharaja to get a second hand RR and have it rebodied. The thing is, in 1936 and 1937 RR could not keep up with the demand for the new Phantom III, and there was a kind of rationing of chassis. As the Maharaja had already ordered one chassis (3BU50) they probably told him he had to wait! He was only 29 in 1936, and was probably a bit impatient! By mid-1938 as it became apparent that there was going to be a war, orders for the PIII collapsed.

In post 431 Karlosdeville adds something that someone sent saying Prnlal Bhogilal has two PIIIs - actually I think he has three: 3AZ47, 3BU82 (ex Maharai of Nabha) and 3BT75 (ex Maharaja of Udaipur)
Steve Stuckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 14:53   #443
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,532
Thanked: 7,557 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
MHC 707, the silver and black Kellner 20 25 has been advertised for sale in this months Autocar India.

I dont know if I had mentioned this, but I once had a 3 hour chat about this car (amongst others) with the son of a previous owner on a Bombay-Poona bus ride. His father was a well known and respected RTO, and he bought the car from a dealer in Bombay who had gotten it from one of the better known Maharajas, I forget which, in non running condition but requiring minimal work. If Im not mistaken he paid 7000 rupees for it, back in the 50s/60s. He mentioned he still treasures the Kellner plate he removed from the car before he sold it.
The car is indeed ex Baroda, and was purchased for 3,500 rupees, and sold for 35,000 rupees in the 70s.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 17:55   #444
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 834 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
But, ki fark paenda hai, Rolls di to vaj chuki si!!
Couldn't have put it any better buddy!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TractionAvant View Post
My guess would be that the fenders proper are from another car & the matching bulges on the doors are fabricated to match these parts.
OT, but is that a humber in the background? Also, there seems to be something quite impressive between the two.
This might be an act of a whim too.
No dont think thats a Humber though it does look like one in a glance.
Ive been trying to spot the car in between the two. Theres not much to identify by but looks like a Ford-A or a Chevy.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 09:38   #445
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 105
Thanked: 150 Times
Default Phantom III 3AZ198

The third Phantom III in India is 3AZ198. It was sent off test at the factory on 5 October 1936, fitted with engine N74M, and set up for use in India. It was delivered to coachbuilders Hooper & Co. where they fitted a limousine to their standard design 6273, and with body number 8666. The bonnet sides had louvres, which was usual for cars going to the colonies or the tropics; there was an electric fan fitted to the rear compartment. The car was painted in grey and black, with the body panels and bonnet sides in grey and the upper parts, bonnet tops and wings in black. There was a spare wheel to the offside. The front seat was in black leather and the rear in fawn cloth. The body cost 700 pounds.
The car was completed on 3 December 1936, was delivered to RR on 10 December and on 18 December was shipped to Bombay aboard the ss "Corfu". The car was to be used as a Trials (or demonstrator) car by Allied Motors Ltd., the RR-owned dealers for India. The cost of shipping the car was 116 pounds. Expenses, clearance charges and customs duties into India was 8,137 rupees, when the rupee was worth 1 shilling and 6 pence UK.
The car would have been used extensively in India before it was sold in February 1938, for 2,270 pounds to the Commander-in-Chief of the British Army in India, Sir Robert Archibald Cassels (15 March 1876 - 23 December 1959). He was resident in Delhi, and was C-in-C from 1935 to 1941. The car was registered D.2, and had been painted black throughout. The warranty on the car was extended by RR to 20 February 1941.
The next reported owner of the car was in May 1941, when it was owned by Ram Narain in Cawnpore. In June 1973 it was owned by S V Dongre of Mumbai.
I have photos of the car registered 1757.D, BRG.17 and MRJ.1936.
It was derelict by the early 2000's.
The photo below of the car as delivered in 1938 is from the RREC archives.
Attached Thumbnails
Classic Rolls Royces in India-3az198-new.jpg  

Classic Rolls Royces in India-3az198-wreck.jpg  

Steve Stuckey is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 12:11   #446
v12
Distinguished - BHPian
 
v12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 5,720
Thanked: 2,850 Times
Default

Rolls Royce Centenary Celebrations - 26th December 2004
v12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 12:19   #447
BHPian
 
park-ward's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: France
Posts: 126
Thanked: 112 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
Attached is the pic of a Rolls Royce in India taken probably in the early 1970's, still languishing in the countryside somewhere.
It is confirmed that the car is still alive as I am told by a very reliable but tight lipped source, that this car still exists. Where, he would not say, though in what condition it would be in today, would be interesting.
There Body seems to be modified.Can anyone identify the year and type of Rolls this is or where this car is today? Any info would be welcome.
Attachment 26105

Welcome Harit.
Great to hear that Harit is now going to be active on the forum Karl. (how active, remains to be seen) It was good of him to attend the meet.
Its collectors like him and others who should be taking active part in threads such as these to share the wealth of knowledge they possess.
One will truly learn from such welcome inclusions to the Team-Bhp family.
I'm very suspicious here (thread #435), the cowl doesn't look RR, neither do the bumpers, wheels and wheels hubs. The headlamps are larger than the standard RR fittings. I've never seen anything like it in 45 years of RR research/hobby and I'm inclined to say it is another make with a RR grille.

Re thread #411, this Park-Ward Silver Wraith is most probably #WVA20 (S.S.Chatterjea's) because it is the only design 17 limousine that went to India - with Mountbatten's #WVA6 which is not known to have survived.
park-ward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 14:15   #448
Team-BHP Support
 
karlosdeville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pune
Posts: 9,532
Thanked: 7,557 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey View Post
The next reported owner of the car was in May 1941, when it was owned by Ram Narain in Cawnpore. In June 1973 it was owned by S V Dongre of Mumbai.
I have photos of the car registered 1757.D, BRG.17 and MRJ.1936.
It was derelict by the early 2000's.
The photo below of the car as delivered in 1938 is from the RREC archives.
The MRJ registration probably tallies to Bombay 73, but interestingly the previous regn BRG 17 is probably Darbhanga (or have I not been paying enough attention?)

What is the current status on the car?

Julian, you remember posting links to a few old vidoes and pictures some time back? I seem to remember one featuring the car bearing regn D 2 clearly, but cant find it at the moment. Do you recall?

Last edited by karlosdeville : 7th July 2008 at 14:18.
karlosdeville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 15:23   #449
DKG
Senior - BHPian
 
DKG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 3,706
Thanked: 910 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by park-ward View Post
I'm very suspicious here (thread #435), the cowl doesn't look RR, neither do the bumpers, wheels and wheels hubs. The headlamps are larger than the standard RR fittings. I've never seen anything like it in 45 years of RR research/hobby and I'm inclined to say it is another make with a RR grille.
Bears a faint resemblance to the James Young / Park Ward Silver Cloud I's. Either some creative owner was inspired by those cars and decided to build himself a RR or its a cut paste job involving body parts from different cars. The 46-48 Buicks had a similar side profile. If the mechanicals are RR and have odd numbers then perhaps a design prototype? although this last one seems too farfetched.

Those chrome wheel rim trims are typical of American cars. I think the donor may have been a Buick

Last edited by DKG : 7th July 2008 at 15:26.
DKG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 23:35   #450
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 700
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post

Julian, you remember posting links to a few old vidoes and pictures some time back? I seem to remember one featuring the car bearing regn D 2 clearly, but cant find it at the moment. Do you recall?
EEERRR, which ones, were they pathe news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
If the mechanicals are RR and have odd numbers then perhaps a design prototype?
I think its a kabari wallah's design prototype.
Julian UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics : Rolls Royces & Bentleys in India jesal Super-Cars & Imports in India 195 20th August 2012 13:25
Why do Rolls Royces "lean back"? D33-PAC Technical Stuff 4 15th April 2012 22:55
Pics : Economic Times Rolls Royce Centenary Rally. Includes 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom v12 Vintage Cars & Classics in India 28 15th February 2009 17:15
Classic ICE: Rolls Royce Silver Spur gunbir In-Car Entertainment 48 21st August 2007 10:07
The new S Class, Rolls Royces and more! gemballa Super-Cars & Imports in India 30 25th February 2006 02:22


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:22.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks