Classic Rolls Royce's in India

[Steve Stuckey]

Here are some more photos of this amazing car, three taken on the same day, when it was about to be delivered, and the last when it had taken the Prince for some skiing in Switzerland!

Enjoy

[V-16]

Originally Posted by Julian UK

Any chance of getting the chassis number? Its on the plate below the horn and can be seen in the photos.

Ill ask my friend if he can manage the chassis number. He seems to have access to the car so i dont think it will be a problem.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by travancore

I am sure that DKG will be quick to point out that Berar (3CP116) was very much a part of the Nizam's Dominions

Ahh you seem to know me well now Ofcourse Berar was a part of the Nizam's dominions with Prince Azamjah and Princess Durrehshevar, son and daughter-in-law of the sixth Nizam Mir Osman Ali Khan refered to as the Prince and Princess of Berar. Possibly owing to just this kind of indulgence in expensive cars etc the Nizam appointed his grandson Prince Mukkaramjah, son of Prince Azamjah, as the heir apparent. My father clearly remembers 3CP116 when it resided in Bella Vista, their home in Hyderabad until such time it went back to England with the Princess

Although the father was frugal by a ruler's standards both his sons did order some awesome machines, the Duesenbergs, the Mercedes SS, the Delahaye, Bentleys and many more apart from the above car.

Steve those are such lovely pictures. Especially of 3CP116 on snow. Rare glimpses, we owe you big time!!

[DKG]

Originally Posted by travancore

I find it interesting that with the exception of Baroda, none of the other "big gunners" (21 gun salute states) - Hyderabad, Mysore, Kashmir or Gwalior owned a PIII.

Actually come to think of it Mysore definitely is a surprise as the Maharajah had a particular fondness for RR's. He should have done a "Mysore" on the PIII's too, what a sight that would have been.

For those of you unfamiliar with this apparently the Maharajah of Mysore had a habit of ordering seven cars(from what I vaguely remember reading) at a time. Legend has it that within RR doing a large sale came to be referred to as doing a "Mysore"

[Steve Stuckey]

The fourth photo didn't come through. Here it is.

[Steve Stuckey]

Still didn't want to work, did it. I'll try again!

[DKG]

Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey

Still didn't want to work, did it. I'll try again!

Wow this has to be one of the more flamboyant/ornate PIII's. Must have been quite a sight in those days. Any pictures of the Prince and Princess seated behind?

[karlosdeville]

This is the first time Im noticing the Ford/Lincoln v 12 style lights on the fenders. Amazing.

[DKG]

Originally Posted by karlosdeville

This is the first time Im noticing the Ford/Lincoln v 12 style lights on the fenders. Amazing.

The car has lost those and the side mounts since if you notice later pictures.

Sometime back I had started a thread on Gurney Nutting. Considering so much in RR's and Bentleys is owing to the fabulous coachbuilders I think we must continue building the threads on the coachbuilders and showcase their work there. What say?

Pictures and writeups about the people behind the scenes, the designers, the workshops, the way these companies went about processing orders. It would make for such interesting reading

[karlosdeville]

Can some one shed more light on this?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/968267-post262.html

[karlosdeville]

Some comments from Harit.

I have seen a number of posts criticizing the Rolls of Pranlal. I personally feel that though some criticism is justified indeed, some points are being overlooked. In fact we must appreciate his work to a great extend.
I have heard, but not confirmed that collecting cars was a family tradition and they picked up cars over the years when the few interested ones were very few collectors and exporters. So many exporters are also collectors today, they really stopped once the ban came in place.
But back to Pranlal, he obtained a number of chassis and then built bodies resembling some coachwork and probably gave his own touch. In the old days restorers were faced with such huge difficulties starting with tyres, spareparts, mechanics, body builders, car body carpenters so much so that it became a headache to maintain, let alone restore these cars. There are few idiots like me who buy incomplete cars and bikes (in the old days cheap) and hope for parts to fall in our lap. Today sourcing parts is easier. I have just bought the Bantam, the mechanicals are in shambles, everything is altered, nothing available locally and parts will have to be brought in. I did it with few cars, he did it with so many. So he can definitely build on a body he fancies. I do not think that he himself has deformed a car, by and large originality was kept and modifications were made were parts were lacking. I am after an SS chassis, stuck in the courts but when I get it (if) I would build a sports car because there is nothing except chassis and wheels.
Only serious comment is on the colour schemes. If Dr Fali Mehta were to see his old Chrysler Airflow "Tutifruity" he would turn in his grave, not possible only because he is a Parsi. Here I feel that decorum should be maintained. The owner owns the car and he can do what he likes, but then we have the right to criticise particularly when these are exhibited.

Harit

Dear Karl,

Please refer to #739 (permalink) talking about a Rolls and export etc. Well, this is most probably (99.9%) a Rolls that went through Mumbai. If you go through my past post to you, I did mention about a Rolls which was sent up for export. This car once upon a time belonged to a fabulous Ahmedabad collection which was most unfortunately disbanded, probably forced on to him because of jealousies. She came to Mumbai and was seen in the lot of a dealer who has been indulging in export activities. One fine day the car disappeared, it seems that the registration was altered to show post 1940. But customs caught on and she came back! Should have been confiscated. Then she went on to Hyderabad. It was known that the engine was defective. The mechanic was a master, Ali who is unfortunately no more. He really managed to build an engine from two, where he got the second one only he knows. It is nice to hear that the car is still in India and alive and well.
About Ali, a story. Ali was involved in rebuilding the Dhanrajgir Packard engine with the broken head. The owner gave the job to Ali to get the engine running. Somehow the owner came to Mumbai and landed up at Solanki's place. I met him and he told me about the broken head. I suggested to him that there is a workshop run by a friend who is basically into marine repairs and perhaps he could help. Long story shot, a pattern was made, head was cast, machined and fitted by Ali. We are now finishing a 1938 Mercedes head for a 320. If anyone has difficult repairs, do contact and he can try to do the job. Anyhow, the car ran, was sold to a friend who gave up and sold the car to me. While Ali visited his place, he told him about this Rolls engine. He also told about one of his toughest repair jobs, a Daimler sleeve valve engine. And he claimed that he was successful in getting it to run. Now this is the funny part. Shortly afterwards, I was in Gujrat and visited a collection. I met " Babuji" and he was very kind to personally show me all his cars, even those which were not ready. I have been lucky to get around quite a bit. Anyway, this Babuji had a sleeve valve Daimler. And it was not working, still today is not. So I told him that there is this mechanic who has worked on this before. Babuji was interested, gave me his telephone number. We contacted Ali, he was willing and then I tried to call Babuji. This was way beyond the days of cell phones. I just could not get through to Babuji, perhaps the layers of folks around him was too much, could not reach. So I left it. I am so sure that this engine would have been made to work. Now it is too late. Those who can figure out whose car I am talking about should tell him about it. Babuji's wall was just too thick.

[Steve Stuckey]

This photo, from the archives of the Phantom III Technical Society in the USA, is supposed to show the remains of 3CM37 when it was being sold to an Italian gentleman. I cannot guarantee that this is the case!

[karlosdeville]

Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey

Here's another photo of 3BU134, from the Rolls-Royce Bulletin of Sept 1938, taken in Bombay on the same day as the photo of 3AZ198 (see second photo in post 741) - that's 3AZ198 behind the car below.

A copy of that page from Harit.

Referring to the Rolls link 768 of Mr. Steve, I also have this bulletin, the only Rolls Bulletin which I have. Attached please check the scanned copy of the page containing the same picture. I am not only trying to say that I have this very Bulletin, but there are differences which I was wondering about. My copy is of December 1938, and says “issued quarterly”. The photo is on page 28. Mr. Steve says September 1938. Did Rolls issue a later edition for India? Mine is also printed in England. The title below the photo also says Mumbai.

Harit

[Steve Stuckey]

Sorry, Harit is right. The side view of 3BU134 is from the December issue (page 28); the photo showing the front of 3AZ198 with 3BU134 beside it is from September 1938, page 9.

[travancore]

Originally Posted by Steve Stuckey

Sorry, Harit is right. The side view of 3BU134 is from the December issue (page 28); the photo showing the front of 3AZ198 with 3BU134 beside it is from September 1938, page 9.

Hi Steve,
Got any rear end views of 3BU134 or 3CP116 (Berar) in your wonderful archives ? Cheers