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Old 17th February 2011, 15:45   #1336
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

A nice story here.
I have been collecting photographs and when they became too much I have sorted them according to some groups. Bikes together, pics of a certain family together, military, commercial. movie, Maharajas etc. Long ago, maybe 3 years I collected a set of a family pics. Then I got some pictures of a Rolls, the persons where of that family and I placed them together. Shortly thereafter I received some pictures of a Humber, and just by chance kept these in the album of the that family.
Now I had a visitor here to see my Rolls pictures. When he saw the pictures of the Rolls, he commented that that car was a demo car in Bombay, and often used by the Rolls sales person, Mr. Chandler. At the back of one of the Humbers pictures there was a mention "Mr. Chandlers car". I took out the photo and showed it to this visitor, he confirmed that this was indeed the same person. And then he pointed out what I did not see, the Humber has the flying/winged lady mascot. See the pictures below, and a close-up of the Mascot.
Why would a Rolls dealer/selling agent drive a Humber? Well, even today a Rolls salesman may not drive a Rolls, but here he drove a quality British car.

Cheers harit
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Classic Rolls Royces in India-op-humber-01.jpg  

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Last edited by harit : 17th February 2011 at 16:05.
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Old 17th February 2011, 21:23   #1337
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by harit View Post
A nice story here.
Why would a Rolls dealer/selling agent drive a Humber? Well, even today a Rolls salesman may not drive a Rolls, but here he drove a quality British car.

Cheers harit
Interesting picture Harit!

An explanantion could be that Allied Motors may have been the agent for RR as well as Humber.

Many privileged owners may not have wanted a "pre-driven" RR (though there are many examples of Maharajas having owned demo / second hand cars). So RR possibly tried to minimize miles put on a new car. Mr. Chandler may have used this Humber as his personal transportation!
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Old 18th February 2011, 10:03   #1338
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

I have recently been in communication with Mr. Jean Claus Rossfeldt, the curator of the Rolls Royce archives. He says that now that the registration is complete, he will try and find out more about the car through his contacts.

He also remembers my enquiry nearly 5 years back on this same car, though at that time he insisted it was a 20 h.p. He also has a much clearer pic that I sent him from that time, where the license plate is clearly visible as is the family crest on the back door.

Notice the tyres are Dunlop Magnum which were only available in the early 1920s. Also note the full height tool box, quite rare for RR's. Also no front wheel brakes and see the diagonal arm running from the front cross to the cantilever spring. This last feature was present in all 40/50 hp RR's and never on the 20 h.p.'s, and this is something I figured after seeing 100s of photos. I wonder why there isn't more relevance given to this when identifying models.

Travancore, don't you have any details on the car? I only ask because you normally are able to provide the chassis no. by taking a single look at the photos

Best Regards
Prithvi Tagore
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Old 18th February 2011, 10:19   #1339
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Prithvi considering this car is most likely not a pre 1913 the wheel bases on a Ghosts post 1913 would be 143.5 and later 144 or 150.5. Now from the pictures it looks most unlikely this is a Ghost wheel base as those cars are huge by any standard.

Ofcourse I have zero knowledge about RR's so this is just a random observation. It looks like a smaller Rolls.

You may find this a bit humorous but the height of the lady standing would be usually 5feet plus and the wheelbase is approx double that height making it a 129inch wheelbase of a 20hp. What say?

BTW did any of the 20hp's come with the non louvre radiators?

Last edited by DKG : 18th February 2011 at 10:49.
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Old 18th February 2011, 11:17   #1340
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
Interesting picture Harit!

An explanantion could be that Allied Motors may have been the agent for RR as well as Humber. Many privileged owners may not have wanted a "pre-driven" RR..................
I do not think that Allied Motors represented Humber. I knew who did, forgot and will look into that.
Rolls did have demo cars, I think that a Ghost of Mallya is also recorded as a demo car. I would say that this Humber was Mr. Chandlers personal car. Many times the employees of a luxury brand cannot afford the goods they represent.

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Originally Posted by mbz180 View Post
I have recently been in communication with Mr. Jean Claus Rossfeldt, the curator of the Rolls Royce archives. He says that now that the registration is complete, he will try and find out more about the car through his contacts. .................................................. ..... by taking a single look at the photos Best Regards Prithvi Tagore
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Prithvi considering this car is most likely not a pre 1913 .................................I have zero knowledge about RR's so this is just a random observation.
Regarding the two posts above, a full blooded Rolls fanatic will look at the pictures, certain features including the brakes and would tell that this is a Ghost of around 1920. Maybe end of the month I will have details on this car. I knew that I was onto something because out of approx. 20 photos, I picked this to post expecting a reaction which also came forth. The guy saw the picture and said Tagore, I only knew of one Rabindranath and posted this. The result is for all to see.

Therefore, if you have a titbit of info, or just a photo, do post, do share, and likely you will get feedback to link up the history. The only disadvantage is that others will also learn, is there any harm? Many historians seem to be unaware of the benefits od sharing. Maybe sometime we will see tbhp in an acknowledgement list.


Cheers harit
for example, see the Alfa story in the nostalgic thread. Who started talking on Alfa's in India? That was really a titbit in The Automobile.

Last edited by harit : 18th February 2011 at 11:20.
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Old 18th February 2011, 11:26   #1341
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Prithvi considering this car is most likely not a pre 1913 the wheel bases on a Ghosts post 1913 would be 143.5 and later 144 or 150.5. Now from the pictures it looks most unlikely this is a Ghost wheel base as those cars are huge by any standard.

Ofcourse I have zero knowledge about RR's so this is just a random observation. It looks like a smaller Rolls.

You may find this a bit humorous but the height of the lady standing would be usually 5feet plus and the wheelbase is approx double that height making it a 129inch wheelbase of a 20hp. What say?

BTW did any of the 20hp's come with the non louvre radiators?
DKG,

You are somewhat right right in your observations, however, this image has been compressed width wise by the RR curator.

Attached here are the actual proportions of the car, in normal mode, and you will see that the wheel base is quite long.

Regards
Prithvi
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Old 18th February 2011, 13:59   #1342
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Attached here are the actual proportions of the car, in normal mode, and you will see that the wheel base is quite long.
My goodness !! What a difference. Yes it looks more like a Ghost going by a more Ghost like wheelbase, to a amateur like me. The rear cantilever springs are also a giveaway are they not of a Ghost frame? (though not visible in the picture?)
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Old 18th February 2011, 16:58   #1343
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My goodness !! What a difference. Yes it looks more like a Ghost going by a more Ghost like wheelbase, to a amateur like me. The rear cantilever springs are also a giveaway are they not of a Ghost frame? (though not visible in the picture?)
Not really sure about the rear springs, have not studied them as yet.

Regards
Prithvi
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Old 19th February 2011, 19:42   #1344
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Originally Posted by harit View Post
I

Therefore, if you have a titbit of info, or just a photo, do post, do share, and likely you will get feedback to link up the history. The only disadvantage is that others will also learn, is there any harm? Many historians seem to be unaware of the benefits od sharing. Maybe sometime we will see tbhp in an acknowledgement list.


Cheers harit
for example, see the Alfa story in the nostalgic thread. Who started talking on Alfa's in India? That was really a titbit in The Automobile.
I have a little tit bit to share. The car as I said was sold to a Scottish gent, a Calcutta Stock Broker, of notorious repute. His name? Coco Macketrich. Coco took the car out via Nepal from where it was airlifted. The Maharaja of Tikari had many exotics in his Gurusaday Road (still exists) garage, including the Tikari Cadillac V16.

Regards
Prithvi
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Old 19th February 2011, 21:46   #1345
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Prithvi considering this car is most likely not a pre 1913 the wheel bases on a Ghosts post 1913 would be 143.5 and later 144 or 150.5. Now from the pictures it looks most unlikely this is a Ghost wheel base as those cars are huge by any standard.

Ofcourse I have zero knowledge about RR's so this is just a random observation. It looks like a smaller Rolls.

You may find this a bit humorous but the height of the lady standing would be usually 5feet plus and the wheelbase is approx double that height making it a 129inch wheelbase of a 20hp. What say?

BTW did any of the 20hp's come with the non louvre radiators?
The car pictured is indeed an early Ghost....some of the later 20HP RR's were retrofitted with teh non louvre rediators but none actually came with them from the works
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Old 20th February 2011, 12:03   #1346
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The car pictured is indeed an early Ghost....some of the later 20HP RR's were retrofitted with teh non louvre rediators but none actually came with them from the works
I have seen ocassionally, 20 hp RR's without any louvres at all. In fact in the Kolkata Restorers thread for Shashi Kanoria, you will see that his 20 hp roadster does not have any louvres. Then again, a few late ones had vertical louvres as well but most had the horizontal type.
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Old 20th February 2011, 16:05   #1347
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I have seen ocassionally, 20 hp RR's without any louvres at all. In fact in the Kolkata Restorers thread for Shashi Kanoria, you will see that his 20 hp roadster does not have any louvres. Then again, a few late ones had vertical louvres as well but most had the horizontal type.
Like I said they never came from the factory with any other grille than the lovred ones. People went on to change them with teh old Ghost types and even with teh later vertical lovure types.
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Old 20th February 2011, 16:54   #1348
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Pics of a Rolls Royce from the Delhi Statesman this year. Any details on the car ?
I believe this car is a 1936 25/30hp, chassis no. #GXM 5, Salmons Sedanca drop head coupe. The first owner was Sir Alexander Korda, who was married for 6 years to Merle Auberon, the Anglo Indian film star, the subject of the film "Queenie".
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Old 20th February 2011, 20:32   #1349
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I believe this car is a 1936 25/30hp, chassis no. #GXM 5, Salmons Sedanca drop head coupe. The first owner was Sir Alexander Korda, who was married for 6 years to Merle Auberon, the Anglo Indian film star, the subject of the film "Queenie".
Salmons or Salamanca? Have never heard of the former.
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Old 20th February 2011, 23:39   #1350
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I believe the "mystery" car to the right (in the photo above) is the ex-Rewa Lanchester 40 H.P. (1923 / 24 ?). The car had a double roof with ventilating fans and many other unique features. Think the car is now painted reddish brown and in an European museum (featured in traumautoarchives).
Here is the traumauto car, now in understated green and black livery.

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