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Old 17th July 2011, 16:16   #1471
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Wow, This is the same car ? I really didnt know this is the same.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
As if you didn't know...

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Old 26th July 2011, 11:26   #1472
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Another Maharaja RR up for sale.

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It's a 1925 Torpedo Tourer or 'Tiger Car' built for Umed Singh II, a maharajah who was rather fond of hunting the big cats.
Next month it will be one of six pre-war Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars up for grabs when Bonhams holds its annual auction on the Monterey Peninsula in California.
In its hey day the car had all the latest tools for the hunt
It boasted a large-calibre gun for seeing off charging game; a number of bird guns, rifles and shotguns mounted in the cabin; and, at the rear, a trailer towing a Bira .450-caliber hand-cranked machine gun - the primary weapon for hunting Bengal tigers.
The machine gun attachment still exists and is part of the auction.
If that wasn't enough the maharajah also had a Lantaka cannon attached to the rear bumper, should he fancy a spot of elephant hunting before tea time.
It's powered by its original 8-litre, 6-cylinder engine.
Source: 1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 'Tiger Car' with machine gun on the back up for auction | Mail Online
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Old 27th July 2011, 15:07   #1473
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Default Kota Maharaja's Rolls-Royce to go under hammer at Bonhams

One of the most opulent cars built, a brilliant red and chrome Rolls-Royce customised with a machine gun for Umed Singh II, the erstwhile Maharaja of Kota, is now up for auction at Bonhams , a privately-owned British auction house.

The car that is said to have been used by the maharaja for hunting tigers has tall tyres that were designed to cross rough terrain and the lowgearing ratio that allowed the huge vehicle to creep through mud and bush.

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According to information available from London-based auction house Bonhams, one of the world's oldest and largest auctioneers of fine art and antiques, "Tiger Car" as the vehicle is called, is estimated to fetch between USD 750,000 to USD 1 million. Equipped with powerful brass searchlights that swing side to side and an arsenal of animal killing weaponry, the 1925 Torpedo Tourer or "Tiger Car" will be among six prewar Rolls-Royce and Bentley up for grabs at the Bonhams annual auction in California on August 18-19 in the category 'Exceptional Motorcars , Motorcycles and Automobilia.'

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The handmade automobile commissioned by the maharajah , also known as Sahib Bahudur Singh, is powered by a 8-litre , 6-cylinder engine with dual spark ignition set to a low gearing ratio that allowed it to creep powerfully through the jungles of Rajasthan . Umed Singh II, who ruled Kota from 1889 to 1940, was an avid hunter. For its final construction, the Rolls-Royce chassis was sent to Barker & Company, Ltd. for final coachwork and then shipped to Bombay as a dedicated hunting car for the maharajah.

According to Nitin Dossa president Vintage & Classic Cars Club of India, Mumbai, "It's a rare car that was sold by the royal family long back, though I wonder how the maharaja could sell it. These are prized collections that are sold for a song and the Indian government should bring back the heritage memorabilia."

The Rolls-Royce Tourer was recently sold to the Faulknor family of the Bay Area and was previously owned and exhibited by Rubin Jurman, 83, Los Gatos, CA.

In an earlier tour of the vehicle , Jurman wrote, "Among unique styling cues in the rich coachwork, the Torpedo model integrated nautical themes, including gently-rounded body sides, a pointed bow motif on the hood and the working nautical ventilators on the cowl. The vehicle is loaded with lights, including a single powerful central searchlight that swings side to side and two front headlamps that move up and down. There is a similar set up in the rear.
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Old 28th July 2011, 15:30   #1474
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Default Re: Kota Maharaja's Rolls-Royce to go under hammer at Bonhams

Wow.. a car designed and made specially for hunting tigers. Those Maharajas surely knew what they wanted to spend the moolah on
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Old 29th July 2011, 18:37   #1475
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Regarding the Tiger Rolls of Kota which we have discussed before, the car has now come up for auction and is being widely publicized. Even the Indian Express carried a write-up in todays supplement.
Being on sale, quite some rubbish is being added to its tale to improve provenance and hopefully the price.
Indian consulates cannot put a request for the car to be donated, they simply have no provision to bring it into India. The import policy does still not allow that, now there are talks of something being opened up, but this request for donation is supposed to have happened a while ago. Consulates only try to get memorabilia on Mahatma Gandhi.
The car is almost fire engine red, ideal to go and hunt tigers, being as noticable as a fire engine. To hunt a Tiger, stealth was required.
Machine gun to kill animals, ridiculous. There were never that many tigers to begin with.
The spotlight in front of the radiator also is wrongly placed, how was it operated? Such lights, if required to be shone into the jungle, were mounted on the sides. Did a bearer lie on the bonnet and move the lights? He would have obstructed view and had a chance to be shot himself.
The low gearing may be because of the road conditions prevailing at that time.
And who "christened" the car as "Tiger Car"? Certainly not Rolls-Royce and probably neither the Maharaja.
This is a nice RR Silver Ghost ex-Maharaja's car, and more of that is a tale. It has a cannon, what about the recoil? Boom boom and back to Rolls-Royce for an overhaul

Cheers harit
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Old 29th July 2011, 20:07   #1476
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Default Re: Kota Maharaja's Rolls-Royce to go under hammer at Bonhams

If people had their way all Rolls from Indian would be dubbed Tiger Cars.....adds color to the car
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Old 30th July 2011, 04:59   #1477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harit
Regarding the Tiger Rolls of Kota which we have discussed before, the car has now come up for auction and is being widely publicized. Even the Indian Express carried a write-up in todays supplement.
Being on sale, quite some rubbish is being added to its tale to improve provenance and hopefully the price.
Indian consulates cannot put a request for the car to be donated, they simply have no provision to bring it into India. The import policy does still not allow that, now there are talks of something being opened up, but this request for donation is supposed to have happened a while ago. Consulates only try to get memorabilia on Mahatma Gandhi.
The car is almost fire engine red, ideal to go and hunt tigers, being as noticable as a fire engine. To hunt a Tiger, stealth was required.
Machine gun to kill animals, ridiculous. There were never that many tigers to begin with.
The spotlight in front of the radiator also is wrongly placed, how was it operated? Such lights, if required to be shone into the jungle, were mounted on the sides. Did a bearer lie on the bonnet and move the lights? He would have obstructed view and had a chance to be shot himself.
The low gearing may be because of the road conditions prevailing at that time.
And who "christened" the car as "Tiger Car"? Certainly not Rolls-Royce and probably neither the Maharaja.
This is a nice RR Silver Ghost ex-Maharaja's car, and more of that is a tale. It has a cannon, what about the recoil? Boom boom and back to Rolls-Royce for an overhaul

Cheers harit
Well said Harit! By the way with my geography not being all that good, did Kota have forests which had a tiger population?
All hunting trophies then and today too are mounted for posterity, why would anyone be so silly to use a machine gun???

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Old 1st August 2011, 18:52   #1478
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Default India has an off-roading history ?

So we have a history with off-roading in India - and this does not include the original 4x4 - the Elephas maximus !

Came across this article on bbc -
BBC News - Indian tiger hunting Rolls Royce is for sale

..the car's eight-litre, six-cylinder engine with a low gearing ratio allowed "it to creep powerfully through the roughshod jungles of Rajasthan"

Here are more details of the 'build' -
Lot Details

Last edited by karlosdeville : 1st August 2011 at 19:35. Reason: Moved to existing thread.
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Old 1st August 2011, 20:50   #1479
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

As per a old native of Kota , tigers were found in Ranthambore , which is about 200km"s from Kota.

This is in Response to Adkol's query , did not want to quote the entire post

Last edited by wbd8779 : 1st August 2011 at 20:51.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 03:30   #1480
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Smile re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Some nice image of the kota rolls.

1925 Rolls Royce Phantom 1 Torpedo Tourer - a set on Flickr

Quote:
The spotlight in front of the radiator also is wrongly placed, how was it operated? Such lights, if required to be shone into the jungle, were mounted on the sides. Did a bearer lie on the bonnet and move the lights? He would have obstructed view and had a chance to be shot himself.
Harit,
Do have a look at the image below, the spotlight appears to be able to swivel or pan. This would illuminate & possible track an animal during a 'night drive' crossing the road, not always possible with the spotlight mounted on the left side.
Had a hearty laugh visualizing a bearer on the bonnet holding onto dear life while the rolls bounced over bumpy dirt tracks with the added fear of getting peppered in the rear.


All sizes | IMG_0408 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Quote:
The story of a machine gun for Tiger hunting is not possible because Maharajas and other royals never went to decimate the tiger population. They did go for hunts, but it was largely controlled, their exclusive sport for themselves and guests. It was after independance that others decided to hunt and kill tigers, the Maharajas had their own new problems and priorities, and had no powers to do anything against hunting. The nation was young and again had its own priorities, so advantage was taken and tigers almost hunted down to extinction. During the Maharajas rules there was some sort of control.
Agree with you harit, hunting was strictly controlled in most princely states, there was a case where a gentleman shot a tiger in Rajasthan without permission in 1932 & had to pay a huge fine, equivalent to the cost of two good cars.
There were plenty of tigers in the kota area (they are solitary animals), even if 20+ were unfortunately shot in a winter camp/season, it had no negative effect on the population. At times they would not shoot for a year or more if the population was not near the healthy mark. The state shikari or game keeper would monitor the tiger population after which they would decide how many could be shot during a camp or the year.

In Dungarpur state I am told the British resident did shoot all the tigers in the region. When the then maharawal came of age to rule, he did the first relocation of tigers into Dungarpur state in the mid 30's.

Unlikely all the guns with the car are original, the Late Maharawal Bhim Singhji double rifle for dangerous game was a .465 holland & holland royal deluxe, a new one today would cost Gbp 110,000.00
Holland and Holland Rifles



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Old 3rd August 2011, 11:18   #1481
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Will not a .465 H&H be an over kill for a Tiger shoot? But yes, our Maharajas did use them and preferred them over .375's. In the old days they had a .500/465 Nitro Express, in fact they were used more as Elephant guns and for the Big5. Most Tiger shoots were done from Machans and with beaters. Shooting Tigers from car using a .500/465 would result in a huge backlash on the shooter from a moving car and none of the so called Tiger cars had seats with withholding / retaining straps to protect the shikari!!
Sorry for diverting from the main topic.
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Old 9th August 2011, 18:35   #1482
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

The last few posts and their links give some info on this car. She was not red originally, so at that time the car did not scare tigers away. But for sure, the "Tiger" car and tiger hunts are some story tellers creation. What happened to a hunted tiger? It was skinned and stuffed. The hunter had to be skilled and cause minimum damage to the tiger skin. Now of what use would a machine gun or a cannon have been?
There was indeed a Bentley 61/2 Litre built for the Nawab of Bhopal, this Bentley had detachable spot lights with 50 or 100 meters long cable for the lights to be taken into the jungle. The windshield could be folded forward if needed for a quick shot. This RR has no genuine hunters features, only later add ons.
In this article one should read our VCCCI presidents(since when) comments. "It's a rare car....", well all special bodied RR Silver Ghosts were. "They are prized collections that are sold for a song ...." which car has gone for a song today? I am sure that this is not what the President actually meant to say, one has to be careful with press quotes.
Finally I wonder what price the hammer will go down.

Cheers harit
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Old 15th August 2011, 11:22   #1483
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

Remember the Rajkot car was estimated at $8,000,000 and eventually it sold for Eur. 644,000, i.e. only 10% of the estimate !!! Some people are trying to jazz up this car but there are few suckers in this league.
Fortunately nobody (so far !) claimed it was used by Hitler during the war and that a Hollywood mogul offered it to Marilyn Monroe on her 20th birthday ;o)
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Old 16th August 2011, 06:18   #1484
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Aga Khan's Rolls-Royce Phantom IV Sedanca de Ville confirmed for Gooding
sale



<http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...load/images/_d
e/6594/Aga_Khan_Rolls-Royce_Phantom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_01pop.jpg>
http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/...olls-Royce_Pha
ntom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_01.jpg

There is no such thing as an 'ordinary' Phantom IV; after all, just 18
chassis were built and they were sold new only to royalty and heads of
state. Yet even among the extraordinary, some examples are more, ER,
startling than others - and none more so than the 1952 Sedanca de Ville
custom-built for the Aga Khan III. This is the very car that Gooding is
offering for sale at its Pebble Beach auction on 20-21 August 2011.

It's hard to know where to start when describing this elaborate Rolls-Royce.
It's not just the unique Hooper coachwork, although this is the only Phantom
IV that wears the formal, Sedanca de Ville body style, with its long,
flowing front wings and articulating rear-wheel covers (that open "in a most
unorthodox fashion" to grant full access to the rear wheel).

No, what really raises the eyebrows is the bespoke detailing. So numerous
were the requests and last-minute additions that chassis 4AF20 took more
than two years to build - and as a result, Gooding tells, the final, total
cost of the car was "discreetly omitted from the factory records". Bear in
mind, however, that General Franco paid around $42,000 for his
far-less-extravagant Phantom IV limousine.


<http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...load/images/_d
e/6594/Aga_Khan_Rolls-Royce_Phantom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_02pop.jpg>
http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/...olls-Royce_Pha
ntom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_02.jpg
<http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...load/images/_d
e/6594/Aga_Khan_Rolls-Royce_Phantom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_03pop.jpg>
http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/...olls-Royce_Pha
ntom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_03.jpg

To mention just a few of these requests. there are large front doors that
had to open as wide as possible to "provide easy entrance for His Highness"
- who was fond of riding in the driver's compartment. In the rear, where
three passengers on the main seat can be joined by two guests ensconced in
the very comfortable, forward-facing 'H-pattern' occasional seats, there are
removable shutters for increased privacy, plus an electrically operated
shade for the rear window. All the windows, in fact, are electrically
operated (with a manual override for emergencies).

<http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/300/12.html> 1960 Rolls-royce
Phantom V James Young Sedanca De Ville-6

In the rear seat armrest are nestled an adjustable mirror, silver brush and
comb, two glass jars and a sterling silver compact, all - of course -
engraved with the Aga Khan's royal crest. And thank goodness for the
telescopic ashtrays, lighters and two small tables, without which no journey
could truly be called comfortable.


<http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...load/images/_d
e/6594/Aga_Khan_Rolls-Royce_Phantom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_04pop.jpg>
http://www.classicdriver.com/upload/...olls-Royce_Pha
ntom_IV_Sedan_de_Ville_Gooding_04.jpg


Should the rear passengers wish to communicate with the chauffeur, they
would thankfully be able to use the hand-held microphone; or perhaps dictate
a few letters using the built-in Dictaphone. And when it's time to break for
lunch, the polished French burr walnut cabinet doors open to reveal - thanks
to the automatic illumination - a full picnic set, with two thermos flasks,
two sandwich boxes, four plates and one nest of four silver beakers with
gilt interior.

Even before the car was finished, Her Highness the Begum Omm-e-Habibah was
able to review these accoutrements, thanks to a series of detailed
renderings from Hooper. Presumably the car warranted the royal family's full
approval because it stayed in the Aga Khan's possession for the rest of his
life, and was only sold by his widow after his death.

In short, what the Aga Khan commissioned, reckons the auction house, was a
car for continental motoring that "combined the comfort of a drawing room
with the luxuries of his royal household". If that sounds exactly the sort
of transport you require, and you have the wherewithal to cope with the
$850,000-$1,100,000 estimate, then make Gooding's Pebble Beach auction a
firm fixture in your diary.

For further information, see <http://www.goodingco.com/> www.goodingco.com.
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Old 19th August 2011, 14:32   #1485
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Default re: Classic Rolls Royces in India

This 20HP was a Gujrat car, sold to Mumbai, on to Pune, and now in Delhi in a prominent collection.
This picture was published in the Indian Express in 1999, covering an event.

Cheers harit
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