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Old 12th July 2009, 13:12   #61
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Shirazi's car, being from the late twenties or early thirties was not air cooled. I remember from its photos that it had an imposing radiator up in front, faintly reminiscent of a Cricklewood Bentley, when the latter were manufactured by WO and not by Rolls Royce. I'll try to get photos from Shirazi and upload them, with his permission.
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Old 12th July 2009, 14:50   #62
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That is what I was saying all along. I have memories of standing next to this car when it was participating in the event in Hyderabad and hearing the water bubble in the rad.

Harit this imposing rad in front with the cap clearly visible in the pictures definitely is for real not just for decoration.

Also I have been researching the air cooled cars that were produced by Lagonda and so far have only come across one which is a three wheeler. By the looks of it I can safely state that they didn't make any air cooled cars that had four wheels.

Any comments ???

Tonrag Sir thanks for sharing info on this car and its owners. Please do try to post pics of the car too.

Last edited by wasif : 12th July 2009 at 14:52.
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Old 13th July 2009, 12:34   #63
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Well to put an end to speculation and get a confirmed answer I asked the gentleman involved in the restoration and he says it is ofcourse water cooled. It should be a very unique and fun vehicle once completed.
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Old 13th July 2009, 13:11   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
By the looks of it I can safely state that they didn't make any air cooled cars that had four wheels.
I think Julian had posted a representative picture some time back of an early 4 wheeled Lagonda that exists in Delhi, though can't find it right now.
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Old 13th July 2009, 13:16   #65
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Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Well to put an end to speculation and get a confirmed answer I asked the gentleman involved in the restoration and he says it is ofcourse water cooled. It should be a very unique and fun vehicle once completed.
Isn't this what I had been saying from a long time. I wonder why there was this theory going around that it was an air cooled car.

Is the pic posted by Julian actually of an air cooled Lagonda four wheeler ???

Last edited by wasif : 13th July 2009 at 13:17.
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Old 13th July 2009, 17:50   #66
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Originally Posted by tonrag View Post
Permit me to throw some light on the Mallya Lagonda. The car used to belong to Mr. Edhullah Shirazi, who was C. Ravikumar's (of the Jackie Shroff's 540K fame) partner in collecting cars, while they were together in Mumbai and then later on, in Bangalore. I was a close friend of Ravi's and am of Shirazi's too - the latter lives now in Bangalore. Yes, in the early seventies, they owned the Mallya Lagonda and I have Shirazi's word for it - it had a wicker work body, which deteriorated in the rain. Then they built the boat tail body on it. Shirazi recollected once to me about the Hyderabad rally and his complaining that he had to drive slowly. Shirazi thought nothing of driving the car all over the south. Ravi and Shirazi sold it to buy more cars and the person he sold it to, promptly sold it to Mallya. Shirazi and Ravi owned some rare beasts, till they parted company in the late eighties or early nineties. Ravi took the 540K and Shirazi several other wonderful cars, including a Mark II Jaguar. I used to be transfixed with the stories that they told and particularly remember them chuckling over a report in a car magazine about Mallya's Lagonda with a 'one off' boat tail body, recalling how they had it beaten out in some back lane of Mumbai. I'll try and get photos of the Lagonda from him. Shirazi is not Parsi, but is from Persia, belonging to an old and learned family of Bangalore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonrag View Post
Shirazi's car, being from the late twenties or early thirties was not air cooled. I remember from its photos that it had an imposing radiator up in front, faintly reminiscent of a Cricklewood Bentley, when the latter were manufactured by WO and not by Rolls Royce. I'll try to get photos from Shirazi and upload them, with his permission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
That is what I was saying all along. I have memories of standing next to this car when it was participating in the event in Hyderabad and hearing the water bubble in the rad.

Harit this imposing rad in front with the cap clearly visible in the pictures definitely is for real not just for decoration.

Also I have been researching the air cooled cars that were produced by Lagonda and so far have only come across one which is a three wheeler. By the looks of it I can safely state that they didn't make any air cooled cars that had four wheels.

Any comments ???

Tonrag Sir thanks for sharing info on this car and its owners. Please do try to post pics of the car too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Isn't this what I had been saying from a long time. I wonder why there was this theory going around that it was an air cooled car.

Is the pic posted by Julian actually of an air cooled Lagonda four wheeler ???
I will still stick to my stand, but with slight modification. The above posts are not conclusive evidence.
First of all, Wasif has a doubt about such a Lagonda being aircooled. Well, earlier I had posted a picture of a Lagonda which was lying in Thane on a farm and that car was aircooled. And it was a 4 wheeler. No doubt about it. And that car looks very similar to the Mallya car. Many aircooled cars had dummy radiators, and so did steam cars. Looking at the Thane car, I presume that Mallyas car is the same and is aircooled. I am sure that time will tell.

Now, no disrespect to tonrag, but his story on the Lagonda as told by him maybe from Shirazi is not correct.
This Lagonda was green in colour, lying in Bombay and for sale for Rs 30,000/-in around 1979. I know, it was advertised in the Times of India. We did phone, the owner was in the same building as Khyber restaurant, maybe his office. And the car was lying on the Nepean Sea Road/ Warden Road junction. The body was metal boat tail, not wicker. One day she disappeared.
And the car had two owners before Mallya, not one. The person who purchased from Shirazi was a collector from Chennai with French connection. He sold it to another collector after some time and that person sold it immediately to Mr. Mallya. Now, when the number of previous owners is not clear, the year of the car "being from the late twenties or early thirties" and the type of body it had, how can he be so sure that it was water cooled? Not there is any disrespect to Mr. Shirazi, I have not met him, my friends have and he is a fine and cultured gentleman. I am not even insisting that he is wrong, but I know that the Lagonda I posted is water cooled and Mallya's car is almost identical. We wait a little bit longer and the true picture will come out.

Cheers harit
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Old 13th July 2009, 19:52   #67
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This is the reason I visit this site so ofter. Intellegent informative discussions without egoes and tempers coming into play.

Harit i absoluteky agree with you. Nothing concluded with regards to this cars cooling system untill a picture of its engine compartment is posted.

On another note I have been looking very hard all over for info on wair cooled four wheeler Lagonda cars without success.Have also been in touch with the Lagonda owners club on this matter. They couldn't ID this particular car off hand and are waiting to hear from one of their members who is not on email.

Can you forward any link to info on air cooled cars from Lagonda.
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Old 14th July 2009, 14:05   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Is the pic posted by Julian actually of an air cooled Lagonda four wheeler ???
Sorry, correction. The (representational) picture he had posted was of a watercooled car, restored in Delhi. Apparently there were no aircooled 4 wheeled Lagondas sold, until proven otherwise.

Harit - do you have engine bay pictures of the air cooled Lagonda you spoke of?
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Old 14th July 2009, 14:41   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Sorry, correction. The (representational) picture he had posted was of a watercooled car, restored in Delhi. Apparently there were no aircooled 4 wheeled Lagondas sold, until proven otherwise.

Harit - do you have engine bay pictures of the air cooled Lagonda you spoke of?
The car Harit posted pics of in a sorry condition also has a radiator. The filler mouth is clearly visible so I am certain this car is also water cooled.
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Last edited by wasif : 14th July 2009 at 14:43.
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Old 14th July 2009, 15:44   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlosdeville View Post
Sorry, correction. The (representational) picture he had posted was of a watercooled car, restored in Delhi. Apparently there were no aircooled 4 wheeled Lagondas sold, until proven otherwise.

Harit - do you have engine bay pictures of the air cooled Lagonda you spoke of?
I think that this is not a very correct stand. I am still firm that there was an aircooled model. And that has not been proven otherwise either.
See, the car whose picture I posted which was in Thane belonged to a gent who was a very knowledgable guy. And he specifically had pointed this out and said that worldwide this was a rarity. That was in 1978.
And I saw that car stripped bare. The engine had covers on each side held by bolts. When there is an opportunity I will definitely try to get pics. And if I had engine bay pics I would have put them up.
As I was posting this, Wasif's post came in between. Well as I have said I know that it is aircooled and refering to this pic I feel that Mallya's car is aircooled too. I had also spoken to the owner after Shirazi, he remembers it as an air cooled too. But still, no more argument from my side till we see pics. And if it turns out to be water cooled after all, so what? It was after all a long while ago!
One thought: could it have been water cooled but without a fan? There most definitely was some unusual arrangement for engine cooling.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 14th July 2009 at 15:50.
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Old 14th July 2009, 16:21   #71
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Below is the correspondence I have had with the Lagonda Owners Club in UK,

They have cionfirmed that Lagonda did not produce any Air Cooled cars with four wheels

Dear Wasif

Our Historian, Arnold Davey, has now looked through his records thoroughly and is afraid he can find no photograph which matches this car. He says that it is a 3 litre Lagonda but with a home made body by someone who obviously made it without reference to other 3 litre models. Without chassis number or UK registration number that is as far as we can go. Arnold did wonder whether it was a famous 3 litre driven in India by Mr Bannerjee but it turned out not to be that one.

Regarding air cooled cars, it is only the Lagonda Tri car which was air cooled and no other Lagonda had this.

I am so worry we can’t help you further but would be most interested if you do find any history as we have a vast database of knowledge on Lagondas and it is always exciting to find an “unknown” car.

I found the website most interesting and have actually met Awini Shanker who is very enthusiastic about his beautiful Lagonda.

Cheers

Colin Bugler


Lagonda Club Lagonda Club Limited Registered in England No.1266365 Registered Office: 6 Queen Square, Bristol BS1 4JE VAT 469653692

Last edited by wasif : 14th July 2009 at 16:25.
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Old 16th July 2009, 01:28   #72
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could one of the previous owners have mistakenly referred to thermo syphon cooled as aircooled? since thermo syphon cooled cars too don't have a water pump..
i wouldn't argue with Arnold, he is a mine of information and knows almost every surviving Lagonda in the world,and has authored several authoritative books on the marque, and Colin has been extremely helpful in getting my car on road initially, he has some wonderful lagondas which he drives harder than most people dare drive their modern cars.

Last edited by awini : 16th July 2009 at 01:32.
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Old 16th July 2009, 10:19   #73
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Originally Posted by awini View Post
could one of the previous owners have mistakenly referred to thermo syphon cooled as aircooled? since thermo syphon cooled cars too don't have a water pump..
i wouldn't argue with Arnold, he is a mine of information and knows almost every surviving Lagonda in the world,and has authored several authoritative books on the marque, and Colin has been extremely helpful in getting my car on road initially, he has some wonderful lagondas which he drives harder than most people dare drive their modern cars.
That is an interesting point, the thermo syphon cooled cars that don't actually have water pumps.

It would be interesting to look for details on this as most likely this is the reason some are mistaken in assuming a car is air cooled. Specially when its in a dismantled state with certain parts removed.

Also some early cars didn't have a block mounted cooling fan, it was sometimes part of the dynamo like on the Adlers thus if the engine is out and the dynamo has been removed one will not find a cooling fan.

Another point to note is that any air cooled engine irrespective of the manifacturer will display some kind of cooling fins on the bores for heat dissapation.

Awini Sir - Its been a while since we have seen pictures of your magnificient Lagonda.

What is the status on it ? Has it been restored, painted and trimmed ? Would love to see current pics of it. I have seen pics of it, similar to those posted by you in the begining of this thread, on Jay Leno's Garage website too.

BTW is the body or parts of it made out of Aluminium ???

Also any idea which car is Arnold refering to as the famous Bannerjee 3 litre

Wasif

Last edited by wasif : 16th July 2009 at 10:23.
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Old 16th July 2009, 13:05   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awini View Post
could one of the previous owners have mistakenly referred to thermo syphon cooled as aircooled? since thermo syphon cooled cars too don't have a water pump..
i wouldn't argue with Arnold, he is a mine of information and knows almost every surviving Lagonda in the world,and has authored several authoritative books on the marque, and Colin has been extremely helpful in getting my car on road initially, he has some wonderful lagondas which he drives harder than most people dare drive their modern cars.
Hi Awini,
Yes indeed, this could be an answer that there is a cooling system in these Lagondas which differs from normal systems in cars in general. After all, if Lagonda club says there was no aircooled model, they would surely know about the cars that they focus on. I was now keeping quiet and waiting for an opportunity to get a closer look.
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Old 20th July 2009, 20:40   #75
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Is it possible to confirm if this Lagonda is actually air cooled or water cooled. There has been a lot of discussion on this point but nothing has been concluded on this.

Some pics of the car would be nice too.

Wasif
Hi all,

If someone has it, please send it to me. And if possible, the engine and chassis number.
As I do a little research about 11.1, 11.9 and 12/24 Lagondas.

look at : http://www.myspace.com/pre1926lagonda
See pictures >


They are alle thermo syphon cooled cars.

Patrick
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