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Old 24th November 2009, 16:24   #61
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Originally Posted by S.B.Jatti View Post
Here is some of the research to be found in "The Splendid Stutz" a Stutz Club Publication. I have seen the original Sales Brochures on the Series M with the same information.

I am uploading a page from the "Information Book" on the Stutz.
Thanks for the info.

I will check with teh guys at AACA and let you know what comes of it.

Any idea why the dash has been changed on this car from the lovely original one ?

What progress has been made on its restoration, any pics ?
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Old 25th November 2009, 00:27   #62
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Thanks for the info.

I will check with teh guys at AACA and let you know what comes of it.

Any idea why the dash has been changed on this car from the lovely original one ?

What progress has been made on its restoration, any pics ?
I understand the dash was changed for two reasons - one because the Raja of Baria ordered additional gauges and meters and two because he simply wanted it. This is the idea of customization. There is no concept of an "original dash" when you want a customized dash as the customized dash is the original because it had no dash before! The Raja ordered the customized Right Hand Drive at the London Motor Show in 1929.

I am told that the restoration is in process and will take another 6 months. I am told that the restoration being followed is as per the CCCA Full Classic Restoration Manual.

As the car is not being restored in Delhi, I do not have any photographs to share. However, I shall request Mr.Diljeet Titus to get some photographs and as I when I receive them , I shall definitely share them with all of you.
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Old 26th November 2009, 11:41   #63
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I understand the dash was changed for two reasons - one because the Raja of Baria ordered additional gauges and meters and two because he simply wanted it. This is the idea of customization.
Jattiji, where was the state of Baria located, and how long did the Raja have this car? Any other noteworthy cars in his stable?
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Old 26th November 2009, 23:44   #64
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Jattiji, where was the state of Baria located, and how long did the Raja have this car? Any other noteworthy cars in his stable?
Sir,
The erstwhile Princely State of Baria ruled by Captain His Highness Maharaol Sir Ranjitsinhji K.C.S.I. of Baria was situated in Gujarat. It had an area of 813 square miles with a population of 137,291 in 1930. The capital was known as Devgad Baria. Apart from good roads, the Baria State had its own Railway ‘The Baria State Railways’; Baria State paid no tribute to the British Government and the Maharaja was entitled to a salute of eleven guns. He had served in France and Flanders in WWI and also in the Afghan War of 1919.

The Stutz M-26 was sold by the Maharaja of Baria in 1952 to a gentleman in Godhra from whose estate this car was purchased recently by DT. According to the information that I have, at the time the Stutz was sold in 1952 Baria had at least 2 more cars – a Jaguar SS100 and a Mercedes 320 Tourer. There might have been few more cars but I am not aware of them.
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Old 27th November 2009, 10:06   #65
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The Stutz M-26 was sold by the Maharaja of Baria in 1952 to a gentleman in Godhra from whose estate this car was purchased recently by DT. According to the information that I have, at the time the Stutz was sold in 1952 Baria had at least 2 more cars – a Jaguar SS100 and a Mercedes 320 Tourer. There might have been few more cars but I am not aware of them.
Thanks - do these 2 cars survive? Any more details on present status?
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Old 1st December 2009, 02:37   #66
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Sir,
The erstwhile Princely State of Baria ruled by Captain His Highness Maharaol Sir Ranjitsinhji K.C.S.I. of Baria was situated in Gujarat. It had an area of 813 square miles with a population of 137,291 in 1930.
Thank you for the interesting notes on the Raja; clearly, he was an unusual man. Is there a biography published?

However, I'm a bit concerned about the CCCA influence here. From my association with these people, I do not think their views of things are appropriate to the refurbishment of this Stutz. I hope it does not become just another over-bulled, over-hyped, over-the-top and largely irrelevant Pebble Beach queen.

Wumps.
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Old 2nd December 2009, 20:23   #67
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However, I'm a bit concerned about the CCCA influence here. From my association with these people, I do not think their views of things are appropriate to the refurbishment of this Stutz. I hope it does not become just another over-bulled, over-hyped, over-the-top and largely irrelevant Pebble Beach queen.

Wumps.
Oh ho Wumps, restraint isn't a very popular pursuit amongst restorers/owners here either. Despite pursuing authenticity, most find the bells and whistles difficult to resist in the end. The colour, and gloss in the paint, figuring high in the wish-list. The last two seasons had also seen a proliferation of wire wheels replacing the original rims.

The argument given once to me, by a gentleman collector here was that since the car (that we were then talking about, in one of the collections in Delhi) was coachbuilt, there was nothing sacrosanct about the customisation! One could argue on that till the cows came home, so I conceded and went to mine!

Money talks, new money screams!
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Old 3rd December 2009, 10:37   #68
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Oh ho Wumps, restraint isn't a very popular pursuit...

Money talks, new money screams!
Well said indeed dear Sir. Haven't see you around for a good while ! Where have you been ?
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Old 3rd December 2009, 12:42   #69
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Originally Posted by wumpletoad View Post
However, I'm a bit concerned about the CCCA influence here. From my association with these people, I do not think their views of things are appropriate to the refurbishment of this Stutz. I hope it does not become just another over-bulled, over-hyped, over-the-top and largely irrelevant Pebble Beach queen.
Very valid observation Wumps.

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Originally Posted by Prabal View Post
Oh ho Wumps, restraint isn't a very popular pursuit amongst restorers/owners here either. Despite pursuing authenticity, most find the bells and whistles difficult to resist in the end. The colour, and gloss in the paint, figuring high in the wish-list. The last two seasons had also seen a proliferation of wire wheels replacing the original rims.

The argument given once to me, by a gentleman collector here was that since the car (that we were then talking about, in one of the collections in Delhi) was coachbuilt, there was nothing sacrosanct about the customisation! One could argue on that till the cows came home, so I conceded and went to mine!

Money talks, new money screams!
There was a story I heard from an oldtimer - a collector in Bombay was restoring his british bike, and went to such extremes of chroming everything he possibly could, he even chromed each individual link in the chain. The result? The bike could never run as the chain kept slipping.

But, for every over enthusiastic restorer (fitting those ugly wide wire wheels with radials on every second car), Im sure there should be a restorer more focused on preservation. Some superb examples were seen at the Cartier show. Internationally too no doubt the trend is shifting.
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Old 3rd December 2009, 13:04   #70
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If a car that has been maintained with care ages and remains in perfect mechanical condition that I guess would be the most precious of conditions to desire for a vintage car.

But how do you replicate that aging when refinishing? That is close to impossible. I don't think anywhere in the world exists a car that was restored to look the age it has survived (atleast I've never seen one even in pictures)

So a restored car will look a whole load fresher than what a genuinely aged car would look. At best the restorers could avoid finishes which were not there when the car was new.

For the Stutz perhaps first the mechanicals should be reworked to perfect running order. Then all alterations corrected and missing parts found. Then the big question arises of paint and upholstery. Chances are it will be refinished and end up looking fresh, hopefully atleast how it looked when new.

Knowing the restorer I don't think he will opt for finishes that did not exist when the car was new.

Sometimes I feel that the best thing to do is to return the car to an as new condition meticulously. Then use the car regularly ensuring she remains in fine mechanical condition. In five years the car will look slightly dull in all senses and look more genuine
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Old 3rd December 2009, 23:17   #71
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Well said indeed dear Sir. Haven't see you around for a good while ! Where have you been ?
Doing hard toil to make a living, sir.

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Very valid observation Wumps.

There was a story I heard from an oldtimer - a collector in Bombay even chromed each individual link in the chain. The result? The bike could never run as the chain kept slipping.
Comedy film-makers have a great idea there!

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If a car that has been maintained with care ages and remains in perfect mechanical condition that I guess would be the most precious of conditions to desire for a vintage car.
Agree, unless the vehicle is in a shambles, keeping it as it is has always been my first choice, for whatever that's worth.

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But how do you replicate that aging when refinishing? That is close to impossible. I don't think anywhere in the world exists a car that was restored to look the age it has survived (atleast I've never seen one even in pictures)
Is possible though painstaking, and there are ways to do it. Some folks do it, if a madcap insists (I'm personally qualified in the scope of lunacy, although I'm no collector - just a working-class enthusiast living The Secret Life of Walter Mitty)! However, the idea is not to over restore but be period-true. Looking new, like it did when just manufactured is okay, in my humble opinion.

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So a restored car will look a whole load fresher than what a genuinely aged car would look. At best the restorers could avoid finishes which were not there when the car was new.
I concur sir, as evinced above.

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Sometimes I feel that the best thing to do is to return the car to an as new condition meticulously. Then use the car regularly ensuring she remains in fine mechanical condition. In five years the car will look slightly dull in all senses and look more genuine
That's a great idea. Only, half of the collectors, who are actually 'investors' don't want to lose the shine before they have it off their backs, a season or two after showing off, and enhancing their station in life, recovering some of the cost on Cohibas and the Fedora!
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Old 4th December 2009, 19:22   #72
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@Prabal, have nothing to contribute here,just appreciation of your lively and witty posts.Hope you read this before it is deleted for being off-topic!
As for The Secret life of Walter Mitty, that could keep you real busy and aptly classified as hard toil!
Skol!
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Old 7th December 2009, 20:23   #73
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@Prabal, have nothing to contribute here,just appreciation of your lively and witty posts.Hope you read this before it is deleted for being off-topic!Skol!
Thank you 911987, glad to have been of some use! And, congratulations, your post is still here (good for me as I was away awhile).

Skol indeed!
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Old 30th December 2009, 23:51   #74
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Jatti Ji what is the present status of the restoration of this car?WE are desperately waiting to see some pics of the on going restoration and of cource some information about the restoration would be great as well.
Thank You
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Old 27th January 2010, 11:13   #75
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Awaiting status update.It has been a long time since there was a last update on this car .
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