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Old 14th October 2010, 17:29   #61
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
One question..?

Why did a car from Jodhpur go abroad for restoration?

I love the way its come out, Just amazing

Congratulations to the restorers, a great feat and a Big thanks to them.

But , will anyone answer my question.
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I am surprised you even ask this question Pavan. The results speak for themselves.
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Wasif,

Read what Awini says.

Same was in my head.

In all probability the whole circus of taking the car there and getting it back is a Impossibly Herculean task.

Congratulations to those who have achieved, but HOW.......?
Well it obviously wasn't impossible, they did it and got the car back. There would have been their fair share of hurdles no doubt, but just see the end result. Even with a high budget, can you guarantee me an equivalent result locally? We have skilled tinworkers and painters, but can we restore a bare metal body to such exacting standards? On such a valuable and superbly preserved car, I can think of nothing but the best, especially when the owners can afford it. Instantly this car has been transformed into one the most desirable vintage cars in the country.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 14:23   #62
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some interestind details on 94RF.Custom built for HH Maharaja Sumersingji of Jodhpur.Given by his brother and successor HH Maharaja Umaidsingji Saheb Bahadur of Jodhpur.in dowry to his daughter Princess Brijkumari Bajilal Saheba on her marriage to HH Maharaja Sriraj of Dhrangadhra on 3rd March 1943.Bodied by Windovers and sold for 1850 pounds engine no CY 75,delivered to Bombay on or arround third week of december 1927.The car was returned to Jodhpur for servicing by the state garage and garaged at Ajitbhawan pending purchase of new tyres for decades after which one presumes she left for restoration in the UK.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 15:21   #63
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My guess is 100,000 GBP minimum if done in the UK. Even if you were to do your car here in India be prepared to spend close to 50 lakhs to restore it in all aspects.
i was thinking more like 150000, for a professional body off job for a smallish car like mine, these large rolls might be more, especially the closed bodies.
here you can go on spending anything, but there are no guarantees, one of my running cars is now barely drivable after a suspension and gearbox overhaul, which cost a pretty penny. the usual answer one gets is "kya karen, purani cheez toh aisi hi hoti hai, kya guarentee de sakte hain"
i think it would be cheaper to import a rebuilt box and pay duty!
or maybe i wait a few decades till retirement and do it myself! its old technology, most mechanical and paintwork is no rocket science, only tin work, especially on alloy needs a craftsman's skills. I'm confidant that i can even do the interior woodwork if i put my mind to it, iv restored furniture before, how different can it be?
but it would be great if someone could pick the car up, restore it to perfection and deliver it back for me to drive and enjoy
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Old 1st November 2010, 17:09   #64
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I have recently restored RR New Phantom 45WR . It was done in my own house 2 car garage which has a pit also. I did all the work myself as it was decided to do a minimal restoration and keep everything original. Only the leather on the seat cushions and back was changed.( Approx Pak Rs 40,000 leather cost, Pak Rs 25000 labour cost Total say $800 ). The engine had to be cleaned as the Castor oil based oil had congealed in the pipes. Everything was as new otherwise (7000 miles total driven). I found carburetor cleaner spray fluid to be the best cleaner of all the congealed oil on the crankcase and other aluminium parts and all other parts. It stings on the skin so use some gloves not attacked by it. ( I could not find any so did it bare handed). I must have used about 20 odd cans. I would keep scotch brite and other abrasives as a last resort because they leave swirl marks and are too intrusive to my liking.
I claim 45WR, which runs like a sweet melody, as perhaps the least interfered car of its time. The original paint has flaked off at certain places but what a good patina of age. It never fails to impress and gets more juices flowing than a 100 point concourse car for a certain type of well informed car enthusiast. ( see RREC Bulletin 298 centre fold) I could not access photos of your car so perhaps I am totally off the mark in my two bits worth of advice. I think you should do it in your own country but having said that I have to say that I have never seen a car restored in Indo-Pakistan to match the thoroughness & quality that the expertise available in Europe can deliver, albeit at an excrutiatingly high price that can give you a nose bleed instantly.
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Old 1st November 2010, 17:58   #65
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Originally Posted by shyml View Post
I have recently restored RR New Phantom 45WR . It was done in my own house 2 car garage which has a pit also. I did all the work myself as it was decided to do a minimal restoration and keep everything original. Only the leather on the seat cushions and back was changed.( Approx Pak Rs 40,000 leather cost, Pak Rs 25000 labour cost Total say $800 ). The engine had to be cleaned as the Castor oil based oil had congealed in the pipes. Everything was as new otherwise (7000 miles total driven). I found carburetor cleaner spray fluid to be the best cleaner of all the congealed oil on the crankcase and other aluminium parts and all other parts. It stings on the skin so use some gloves not attacked by it. ( I could not find any so did it bare handed). I must have used about 20 odd cans. I would keep scotch brite and other abrasives as a last resort because they leave swirl marks and are too intrusive to my liking.
I claim 45WR, which runs like a sweet melody, as perhaps the least interfered car of its time. The original paint has flaked off at certain places but what a good patina of age. It never fails to impress and gets more juices flowing than a 100 point concourse car for a certain type of well informed car enthusiast. ( see RREC Bulletin 298 centre fold) I could not access photos of your car so perhaps I am totally off the mark in my two bits worth of advice. I think you should do it in your own country but having said that I have to say that I have never seen a car restored in Indo-Pakistan to match the thoroughness & quality that the expertise available in Europe can deliver, albeit at an excrutiatingly high price that can give you a nose bleed instantly.
Please do post some histor of this RR along with some pictures for us to enjoy.

Is this one of the Bhawalpur cars.

Also I am curious to knwo what actually happened that resulted in those Bhawalpur cars being locked away for ages.

Maybe you can send me a PM or email me on this wsfahmed@yahoo.com
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Old 2nd November 2010, 03:37   #66
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
Please do post some histor of this RR along with some pictures for us to enjoy.

Is this one of the Bhawalpur cars.

Also I am curious to knwo what actually happened that resulted in those Bhawalpur cars being locked away for ages.

Maybe you can send me a PM or email me on this wsfahmed@yahoo.com
Indeed, it is a Bahawalpur car. More details including pictures of the original and second body can be seen on the Classic RR Thread (post # 209):
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-wa...tml#post817851 (Classic Rolls Royces in India)

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Old 4th December 2010, 23:03   #67
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With the formation of one unit in West Pakistan, the Nawab Bahawalpur agreed to merge his state with Pakistan, but his privileges were to be kept intact so till the time of his death in 1967 all his private palaces and assets were in very good nick, the state assets having merged with Government of Pakistan assets including the Bahawalpur Army. After his death the Government made a list of the private assets and divided it in the manner agreed, i.e instead of primo genature which gives everything to the heir apparent, as was done throughout the Bahawalpur history, the personal assets were divided among the surviving family as per Islamic law, and the premier prince also got extra portion of everything to keep and maintain the palaces and other assets. After much ado, the eldest prince was recognized as nawab Abbas khan abbasi who was also for sometime the Governor of Punjab. The palaces were kept in reasonable condition and used as best in the now limited resources by him. After his death the Government did not recognize his eldest son Sahibzada Salahuddin Abbasi as nawab and a dispute arose among the heirs as it was argued that since there is no longer the Nawab , there is no point of carrying on with the upkeep of palaces with the senior prince who had not been recognised by the Government as the next Nawab.( I am giving a superficial history and details may be quite different.). Litigation started and the issue dragged on n courts for a long time and was finally decided in 2004. During this time some of the property and assets distribution to individual family members was taken by them and the balance remaining assets became under litigation and sealed off by the court.The vehicles which are of interst here were in two categories. The state motorkhana cars were taken by the Government at time of merger. The private cars known as Motorkhana Nij were in the Sadiq garh palace garages as well as in the Al Shams palace garages. These include the Rolls Royces I mentioned . The remaining assets including the cars were auctioned between the family by the government and the funds so collected were distributed among the family. Quite a good way actually, otherwise it would be un ending on who gets what. The original distribution done in 1967 erred, in my opinion, as it took the then market value of cars and other assets to balance the distribution. This was OK for land and buildings but in case of cars it equated a new VW van with a pre war Rolls Royce as indeed such was the price in the market then. The pre war cars were jacked up and stored in garages, two in each garage in tandem as they were kept always. The extra dry climate of Bahawalpur meant that the cars were not subject to rust or corrosion, though the leather and cloth suffered. These were probably last used in 1950's when Nawab Sadiq Muhammad Khan Abbasi V, would have them cleaned and marshalled when ever he was visiting his state, as he had taken up residence in UK after the merger.His palaces functioned as always, till his death at the age of 67. He was a grand man , much loved in the state and his long tenure allowed him to do a lot of work in the state for the people including hospitals, schools, industry irrigation canals etc. His capital city of Bahawalpur was called Baghdad al Jadid ( new Baghdad) . He was a deft hand with mechanical things and liked cars till his death.
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Old 5th December 2010, 12:33   #68
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If you have any pics of all teh car swhen they were in storage it wold be a treat for the eyes.

Any idea what happened to the CadillacV16, the Merc 500 /540 K and the Marmon ?
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Old 5th December 2010, 22:39   #69
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Originally Posted by wasif View Post
If you have any pics of all teh car swhen they were in storage it wold be a treat for the eyes.

Any idea what happened to the CadillacV16, the Merc 500 /540 K and the Marmon ?
The Mercedes 540K is still around - think in the U.S. It was for sale a few years ago - attached are some pictures

Bahawalpur Mercedes 540K Cabriolet B, 1937, Engine # 1540687: Original (U.K) licence was QC-6352. This is corroborated by Michael Frostick in "The Mighty Merecedes".

Name:  Bahawalpur Mercedes 540K Cab B 1937 Eng 154068  Frt 3Q Right.jpg
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Name:  Bahawalpur Mercedes 540K Cab B 1937 Eng 154068  Rear 3Q.jpg
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Name:  Bahawalpur Mercedes 540K Cab B 1937 Eng 154068  Chassis Plate.jpg
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I believe the Cadillac V-16 (bodied by Vanden Plas ?)is still in the Bahawalpur garages - there was a picture in the Cadillac database - carnection.com
Name:  Bahawalpur Cadillac V16 VdP  now 1.jpg
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Old 6th December 2010, 00:55   #70
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I believe the Cadillac V-16 (bodied by Vanden Plas ?)is still in the Bahawalpur garages - there was a picture in the Cadillac database - carnection.com
That's news to me - I thought the Caddy V-16 was bodied only by either Fisher or Fleetwood. Let's hear more on this.
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Old 6th December 2010, 10:48   #71
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That Caddy is a Fleetwood bodied car and it got sold in 2004 when the other cars were auctioned. I had posted some better pic of it in the Maharaja cars thread.

I was trying to see if we can get any info on who owns it now and what is its current state.

That Bhawalpur 540K is said to be probably the most original car around with an extremely low mileage.

The Nawab had a few 500K's too one of which I was reading on PaK wheels was broken down for the metal. Sad.
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Old 6th December 2010, 19:02   #72
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Default 540 K

This car is in the US and also if I am not mistaken belongs to an Indian in Los Angeles.

Cheers


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Originally Posted by travancore View Post
The Mercedes 540K is still around - think in the U.S. It was for sale a few years ago - attached are some pictures

Bahawalpur Mercedes 540K Cabriolet B, 1937, Engine # 1540687: Original (U.K) licence was QC-6352. This is corroborated by Michael Frostick in "The Mighty Merecedes".

Attachment 464536

Attachment 464537

Attachment 464538

===================================
I believe the Cadillac V-16 (bodied by Vanden Plas ?)is still in the Bahawalpur garages - there was a picture in the Cadillac database - carnection.com
Attachment 464539
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Old 7th December 2010, 00:24   #73
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That's news to me - I thought the Caddy V-16 was bodied only by either Fisher or Fleetwood. Let's hear more on this.
We have our "own" V-16 (Maharajah of Orrcha) bodied by Farina (Pininfarina)

Also check out Post # 93 in the Cars of the Maharajas thread for a bit more info on the Bahawalpur V-16. There seems to be some professional opinion that it was European bodied. I am no expert!!!

Last edited by travancore : 7th December 2010 at 00:26.
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Old 7th December 2010, 07:46   #74
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Prem a lot of American cars, Packards, Duesenbergs and Cadillacs were bodied by European coachbuilders although that would be more the exception than the rule. The Caddy database will list their examples out.
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Old 7th December 2010, 12:08   #75
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Originally Posted by kasli View Post
This car is in the US and also if I am not mistaken belongs to an Indian in Los Angeles.

Cheers
Who ...DR V ijay Mallya ? The 540K was with Genreal Lyons too for a time.
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