Clarion HUs discussion!

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by nitrous

Guys,
I just saw an ad of Clarion HUs in ACI,this month.
And they looked very good!Its the first time im seeing an HU in a white ipod-ish colour.
How is the Sound quality?
How are they priced in comparison to our Pioneers and alpines?

OK guys. We've all had a very stimulating debate about high end electronics. One we can all be proud of.

Now I think it's time to return to the topic at hand.

This thread has been started by nitrous, to discuss Clarion HUs. Their pros, cons and first hand experiences. Their qualities versus Sony, Alpine, Pioneer and Blaupunkt.

I would request all future posts on this thread to have some relation to that topic. Please. A humble request.

Thanks.

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Now I think it's time to return to the topic at hand.
I would request all future posts on this thread to have some relation to that topic. Please. A humble request.

Sam Bhai I agree with you we must return to the topic by one of my question is still left out in the pile of other question I hope some one will shed some light on this one..

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

"If I ask somebody to sit in my CAR and I play a track , can one tell that what is playing Audio CD or a 320 KPS MP3 ??"

[ScarySkulls]

Well LBM, if your question is so simple. Then the answer is a big NO. Not much people can tell this Until they have something to compare with (i.e. Audio CD).

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe some can definately Identify the symptoms of an encoded file (like frequency cutoffs and lumpy response especially at the low end.) But then again, they are oh so rare.

[santosh.s]

I can't resist posting here in a nice debate.

ALL companies are there to make money, and that applies not just to audio. They are not doing social service, so they can't be expected to operate on non-profit basis. Just like they hire hyper-brains to take on the challenge of designing technically excellent products, they also have another set of super-brains to study the market/competition, analyze different market segments and diversify their product line to cater to all those segments. The target is to maximize the bottom line. It is very likely that the segment, which these purist HUs are positioned for, may include those who would buy it because it does NOT play mp3 or divx (thereby proving the point that they are indeed pure!).

Brand name is a MAJOR factor. Burr Brown DAC/ADC chips mentioned earlier are now made by TI (Texas Instruments) because they had bought BB. But they still continue to keep the name BB because that is a bigger name for intended customers. If they take that tag off, it will surely have an adverse impact on their sales. On the other hand, if BB was some unknown company but with same quality of products (say a Chinese one!), they would have definitely renamed those chips under TI banner after the takeover. I know such components which enjoy this level of brand image are easily sold at profit margins as high as 80%.

I have an interesting fact to share about some audio related chips. They have two flavors of a certain audio feature. One has SNR (signal to noise ratio) of 120dB or so, which is extremely good, highly "audiophile". The lower flavor has 20-30dB lesser. What I wanted to tell here is that -the lower version is actually nothing but the higher version plus some significant extra circuitry to add artificial noise to it- can you believe it? When you see products (especially electronics) with 3-4 variants with different sub-sets of features, it is very likely that the hardware and software therein is same for all of them, which obviously corresponds to the top most variant. Others just have a few of the features disabled so as to sell them at lower price ranges. Though I definitely feel that all these tricks are not high on morality/ethics, no one can blame them or accuse them of doing anything wrong as long as they don't force customers to buy their products at knife or gun point. This is probably the meaning of "healthy" competition in a "free" economy!!

[santosh.s]

Oops... sorry! I didn't notice that the discussion I was referring to has been moved to other thread and my post is more suitable there!

[ScarySkulls]

Wow Santosh. Can you make a new topic and post more on these tricks..??
And you got any examples?
Did you try and bypass the artificial part and thus end up with the "high level" quality at a lower price point?

[Sam Kapasi]

Once again, I'd like to request everyone to stick to the topic at hand. Clarion HUs.

If you wish to participate in the great intellectual debate that this thread sparked do it here (Audio CD vs 320kbps mp3.. etc.,)

Now please, Clarion HUs or this thread will have no purpose and will get locked.

[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

Wow Santosh. Can you make a new topic and post more on these tricks..??
And you got any examples?
Did you try and bypass the artificial part and thus end up with the "high level" quality at a lower price point?

I may land myself into some serious trouble if I give details... so please don't expect me to provide any more clues

It is well understood that many people may try to hack it, so in most cases enough care is taken to prevent anybody from doing that! But in rare case, it may be possible. I believe illegal hacking of software is far more common than hardware.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

I may land myself into some serious trouble if I give details... so please don't expect me to provide any more clues

It is well understood that many people may try to hack it, so in most cases enough care is taken to prevent anybody from doing that! But in rare case, it may be possible. I believe illegal hacking of software is far more common than hardware.

This thing is done on many chips, ranging from broadband to Signal processing etc.,
So what the company does is make a chip with all capabilities.
The same chip is sold crippled in an economy market, and in a high end market its sold at more price.
Earlier companies used to just software cripple, but now the package is also crippled.
For example a networking company makes a network processor which has 4 Ethernet ports 2 USB ports, 3 UART etc., etc.,
If you go to a cheaper market you would sell the same chip in a package which is just 2 ethernet ports instead of 4, and its sold at a lower price point.
To make a 4 port package or a 2 port package the cost is the same, but the market dynanimics dictate that the lower priced chip is sold with fewer features.
This is very very common.
A very famous example is the Canon 300D camera which is software crippled. Many hackers released "many features".

When you come to HU Signal processors many times a HU costing twice as much as the lower spec model will have the same signal processor but crippled.

What santosh.s said about noise, used to be true, but since DSP programming has become so common now, and ARM cores and MIPS core programming is also getting common, along with knowledge base of internet, there is not much use of software crippling since somebody will break it and release the code.
So now its more of a hardware crippling too.
Use the same DSP, but use a lower spec supporting components like caps and inductors, so that even with software hack you are not able to do much.

[low_bass_makker]

So it means all the high end features are just majority marketing stunts which the manufacturer uses to sell its product.

[devarshi84]

Most of the hardware is outsourced. Imagine which will be cheaper? buying same units in bulk or buying different units in smaller quantities?

Now try to guess where these companies put their money in? the software developers obviously.

I own an EF81 mobile phone which is identical in inside hardware to the sxg75 minux the fm radio and GPS software. I hacked the phone and freed up tons of space. You would probably have guessed how.

Same goes for cars too. TRy to compare the dash of a fusion to the fiesta. Its just a copy paste here and saves tons of cost to the mfr.

[santosh.s]

The obvious conclusion is- manufacturing cost of the top model is same as the lowest one. So, it is profitable even if they sell top models at the cost of lowest one, and they make fortunes out of top variants

[tsk1979]

This is not limited just to electronics.
Now tell me how much does a rear reading light cost to the manufacturer? 100rs/200rs? So why is it that the top model has a reading light but the base model does not.
So to get just a few features extra you pay twice the cost.
Thats why dealers tell you, buy the lower spec model, and we will fit all the features of higher spec model at half the cost.

[devarshi84]

I remember the mitsubishi dealer telling me that I will save around 30 grands if I buy the glxi and get all the sfxi extras fitted afterwards minus some features like

1. Power ORVMS
2. wheels (would cost extra)

and some more.

[santosh.s]

I think we are going more off-topic than we did before (for which the thread was splitted)

So, coming back to HUs-

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

So it means all the high end features are just majority marketing stunts which the manufacturer uses to sell its product.

the word "all" here is too much of generalization and exaggeration, but I guess that is true to a reasonably good extent.