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Old 10th January 2018, 10:23   #136
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
What is the emotion underneath:
1% anger due to lost life
99% envy, frustration over the rich, hatred over society due to poverty and illiteracy, they find pleasure in letting out frustration on the riders.
I agree with this view. I remember as a teenager, I used to travel local trains in Mumbai. Whenever a pick-pocketeer was caught, people used to trash the living daylight out of him. Some people used to first hit and then ask - "why are we trashing him? Pocket maara kya?". It's sad, but it's true.

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Originally Posted by DH82 Tiger Moth View Post
3. Our road manners as drivers and pedestrians: I'm included in this.
This should be the #1 point. I hate to say this, as Indians, but we are a pathetic bunch of drivers. We speed, we cut lanes, we jump traffic lights, we drive on the wrong side, we drive on the footpath, we overtake like maniacs, we swear, we honk, we just behave like pampered babies, while on the road.
It's time we stopped this. Just follow the rules for god's sake. When you are entering a village, just slow down. When you see someone cross the street, just slow down, don't step on the accelerator and cut him/her off. You are inadvertently putting that person's life at grave risk.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Reminded me of this video where Sunil Dutt explains to Nawazuddin Siddiqui why the mob is really beating him up (pay attention from the 40 second point)
Awesome. He said it as it is. And to think, I have actually seen this happening on Mumbai suburban railway.
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Old 10th January 2018, 11:32   #137
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

While I have seen and experienced mob mentality personally, what terrifies me more is that some members on this forum are empathising with the mob or condoning their actions suggesting that it may be out of frustration and anger over the loss of life.

There is a difference between understanding mob mentality and condoning it. I know the first part but we can never do the second part. If one sees the video I am more or less assured that the father of the child isn't the one who who thrashed the bikers. It was mostly young men from the locality, who just vent out their machismo knowing fully well that the numbers are on their side. One can understand if the father of the child physically hurt the biker who was involved in the accident, but thrashing other bikers completely un-related to the incident??.

The most important point here is that the number of live witnesses to the incident are said to be fewer than 10 people. So whoever came later assumed the guilt of the rider without even being a witness to the incident. And even if the rider was involved in the accident, can't it be that he was going within legal speed limit but was distracted just before the accident happened and as such couldn't react properly to avoid the unfortunate incident. Every one of us would have faced situations where, even while doing slow speeds, we would have been distracted by something and were fortunate enough to get away at the last moment without getting involved in a major mishap.

Some said that the biker just got thrashed and would live on while the child has lost life. Yes that is true but why are we assuming the biker is at fault. And even if if he is, wouldn't his conscience be tormenting him that a child lost life because of him. Its not as if the biker is a serial murderer. If he is indeed at fault the law would and should punish him.

As said earlier I personally almost experienced mob fury but was lucky to come out unharmed. In one incident while returning from office around midnight I was driving towards Aramgarh juction from Mehdipatnam and was near the Fisheries department building. People who frequent this road would know that the stretch would be without much traffic at that time a few years back. I was moving sedately and a bolero just zipped past me and hit a rider going on a scooter, who was a good 200-300 feet ahead of me. The guy obviously fell down and the bolero guy stopped just for a moment and sped away. There was no other vehicle nearby except for me and the guy who fell from his scooter. I slowed down to ensure that the guy was ok and also to avoid hitting him. Some puncture shop guys who were asleep woke up due to the commotion and came towards us. Soon some 20 odd people were there. And obviously they suspected that it might be me who hit the guy's scooter. But luckily the guy didn't receive any major injury and bailed me out by saying it wasn't me but a bolero which was the culprit. What would have been the case if the guy was unconscious and I had no witness to bail me out?.

In another incident, and again around same time, I was returning from a friends house in my car and was going from kacheguda towards chaderghat. A middle aged man on a scooter tried to overtake my car and at the same time another teen on an activa who was speeding like a maniac cut across him and the guy on scooter lost control and fell as the activa's rear hit the scooter. The teen on activa also lost control but somehow managed to not fall. But seeing the people running he left the vehicle there and fled. Now the thing was that everyone who came thought that I was the culprit and one local goon even snatched my keys from ignition. Once again it was pure luck that the man only received minor injuries and told them that I wasn't the culprit. Can you imagine being surrounded by 50 or 60 people around midnight, with majority of them in an inebriated condition accusing you of something you haven't done and your only recourse if to pray that the victim is safe enough and bail you out.

So a request to all members who say the mob might be wrong but they understand their reaction and empathise with their actions to some extant, please don't condone such actions even one bit. Think of it, the rider in the above incident might have been from a very poor background himself and had made it to whatever level he is now with sheer hard work. What if he wasn't the one who was at fault and he lost his life because of some freak blow to a vital part. What if he was the only bread earner and has old parents completely dependent on him.

I don't know who exactly but a wise person said, there is a difference between being an educated person and being just a literate person. Education brings character while literacy just makes one read and write. We all are literates in this forum, let us move beyond just literacy. Let us not make everything binary. There can be a third aspect which may not be as black and white.

On this note I feel T-Bhp needs to bring out some new stickers which advertise safe driving like say 'Drive Responsibly' or "With Power comes responsibility' etc. The eact wording and captions can be anything that was just the direction I wanted to have new stickers. I have personally seen many cars with our stickers doing things which wouldn't bring a good name to our forum.

Last edited by vamsi.kona : 10th January 2018 at 11:35.
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Old 10th January 2018, 13:10   #138
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
That mob which attacks anyone is no one from the grieving party, but can be anyone, the puncture wala on the road, the fuel dispenser guy, just anyone.

Be safe than being sorry.
Absolutely...they can just be anyone. Even a passer by. Mostly people who don't have any job to do. I can tell you that they even ask for some money from the victim later because they 'stood' for them! This is not only an opportunity to thrash and take out their frustration/ envy but also to make some money.

I faced a similar incident about 1.5 years ago. It was the time of Durga puja celebrations and I was out with my wife driving to various pandals late night. There was very less traffic but still a few families and people roaming around. I was driving normally in the range of 30-40 kmph in an empty road when I saw one of the ice cream sellers; those which have a small box on wheels which they drag around for selling, was moving on the LHS shoulder of the road and for some reason got dis-balanced and he fell along with the ice-cream box on wheels. Some Ice creams were even scattered on the road. I was still 15-20 metres away from him, and watching all this drama I had stopped my car well behind this fellow.

Suddenly 2-3 goons who all were drunk appeared and started threatening me with questions like "how do you drive the car? you hit a 'gareeb aadmi' (poor guy)? Gaadi chalane nahi aata hai/ dikhta nahi hai tumko" etc. Thankfully, I always drive with doors locked and windows rolled up - I opened the window slightly and all I said that "he fell on his own - I was far away when this happened". The ice-cream seller didn't say anything to help my cause - I give him the benefit of doubt that he may be recovering from the turn of events that happened and probably was busy collecting his ice creams scattered on road.

Thankfully, a passerby (since it was puja time) attested the fact and I heard a voice from somewhere "No fault of car...he fell himself".

I rolled my windows up and was waiting for the road to be clear ahead. Then I saw that those same people who were threatening me picked a few ice creams from the road for themselves while the ice cream seller kept shouting at them and this was it when I sped away.

So, this is the basic character of the 'helping mob'.

Last edited by saket77 : 10th January 2018 at 13:26.
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Old 10th January 2018, 13:44   #139
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
they can just be anyone. Even a passer by. Mostly people who don't have any job to do...
People who have a job, a decently paying one at that, also get involved in this mob justice. Though 3 years old, my brush-up with a Dio rider (Dashcam saves the bigger vehicle from being fleeced) is still fresh in my mind. I count myself lucky to have got the support of a few, and not left to the lurch
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Old 10th January 2018, 14:53   #140
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

Not surprisingly, the US government's advisory for it's citizens is -

"If a driver hits a pedestrian or a cow, the vehicle and its occupants are at risk of being attacked by passersby. Such attacks pose significant risk of injury or death to the vehicle's occupants or risk of incineration of the vehicle."

Source: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...ges/India.html



Continuing on the topic, here's something that happened a couple of decades ago -

My father was travelling from one town to another in the rear seat of his car, with the driver at the wheels.

At one of the curvy sections of the road, the driver fails to notice a cow, and hits the cow. The next thing that happens is that the car is surrounded by stone-pelting cowherds and villagers, who smash the car windscreen and windows. Soon afterwards, the driver is pulled out of the car and beaten mercilessly by the villagers.

Thankfully, a police jeep (investigating a case in a close-by village) passes by. They notice the government car, and jump in to save the driver.

Police (asking the villagers): Why are you beating the driver?
Villagers: Maar daala saab, isne maar daala

Police (thinking that a child was run over): Kisko maar dala, kahan hai woh?

Villagers (now muttering): Saab ... gai ko maar daala (He has killed a cow) .

Police (now confused): Par gai kahan hai? (But, where's the cow?)

Everyone's confused now. They looks towards the car, the cow is nowhere to be seen. The cow would have been fine - in the ensuing melee and stone throwing, the cow decided to make a run and save its life from the very villagers who were trying to avenge its 'death'.
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Old 10th January 2018, 15:24   #141
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by vamsi.kona View Post
..your only recourse if to pray that the victim is safe enough and bail you out
I remember reading somewhere on the forum (some time ago) about someone who tried to help an accident victim. On reaching the hospital, the victim blamed the good samaritan for being the perpetrator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vamsi.kona View Post
On this note I feel T-Bhp needs to bring out some new stickers which advertise safe driving like say 'Drive Responsibly' or "With Power comes responsibility' etc. The eact wording and captions can be anything that was just the direction I wanted to have new stickers. I have personally seen many cars with our stickers doing things which wouldn't bring a good name to our forum.
We have stickers in the set which say 'I drive safe'. Less seen on bhpian cars, unfortunately more on the 'giveaway thread'.
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Old 10th January 2018, 15:29   #142
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
And who were the mob : Mostly illiterate, poor, daily wage labourers/unemployed locals

Who were they against: Upper class of socio economic strata, rich people, who may be like their employer or employer's employer. They ride bikes worth the mob's lifetime earning, wear gloves worth one male's monthly earning.

What is the emotion underneath:
1% anger due to lost life
99% envy, frustration over the rich, hatred over society due to poverty and illiteracy, they find pleasure in letting out frustration on the riders.
This is the very result of increasing income inequality.
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Old 10th January 2018, 15:33   #143
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by vamsi.kona View Post
On this note I feel T-Bhp needs to bring out some new stickers which advertise safe driving like say 'Drive Responsibly' or "With Power comes responsibility' etc. The eact wording and captions can be anything that was just the direction I wanted to have new stickers. I have personally seen many cars with our stickers doing things which wouldn't bring a good name to our forum.
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
We have stickers in the set which say 'I drive safe'. Less seen on bhpian cars, unfortunately more on the 'giveaway thread'.
Why/how do think that people mindset will change as soon as they sport these kind of stickers? If people drive adhering to all the traffic norms then the percentage of accidents happening would reduce drastically (I am not saying zero). In the end remember it is not the car or the sticker that should emphasize responsible & safe driving/riding rather it is the duty of the person behind the wheels.
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Old 10th January 2018, 15:41   #144
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post

We have stickers in the set which say 'I drive safe'. Less seen on bhpian cars, unfortunately more on the 'giveaway thread'.
The reason I might have missed that might be because majority of the stickers I have seen are either 'Got Bhp' or 'Live to Drive'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
Why/how do think that people mindset will change as soon as they sport these kind of stickers? If people drive adhering to all the traffic norms then the percentage of accidents happening would reduce drastically (I am not saying zero). In the end remember it is not the car or the sticker that should emphasize responsible & safe driving/riding rather it is the duty of the person behind the wheels.
Rather than people who see those stickers I felt that our own forum members or those who are sporting such stickers would at least be reminded of their responsibility when they see stickers on their own rides. Can't say how much impact it might make, but even if 1 in 1000 thinks in that direction it would be of great. I said our own forum members because I have seen some who sport those stickers and blatantly violate the laws, especially near the IT parks in and around Madhapur and Gachibowli. I am not saying I am a saint and never violated law, but some of the guys who drive or ride in the wrong way during peak hours just to avoid taking a U-turn a few meters further is astonishing.

Last edited by vamsi.kona : 10th January 2018 at 15:45.
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:07   #145
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

I dont think we would be able to change it how much we discuss. It is unfortunate that a life is lost but accidents do happen very very frequently involving other vehicles and there are deaths.

But being a regular rider on that road and also many other roads - the question that needs to be answered is "What is the best way to get out of that kind of situation?" Some of the things that were being discussed with a fellow rider -
do we leave the bike and run?
Do we stand there and get thrashed and see the bike getting damaged ?
Do we argue with them? I dont know how that will span out.
Even if we manage to get police, what will they tell ?

I dont know if i am complicating the topic more.

Thanks.
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:16   #146
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

Came across this in my feeds this morning but couldnt post it earlier because of work. A guy is riding a commuter motorcycle (nothing fancy here) in the driving on the wrong side of the road without any safety gear (not justified even with the most expensive safety gear in the world) in the middle of a National Highway. Apparently this is near to the spot where the accident in the OP of this thread happened. Looks like a villager who has absolutely no regard for his own life or others. Take a look and be the judge



Details here

None of the people with expensive bikes are even more expensive safety gear would attempt something dead foolish like this yet they got thrashed. What should be done with this pin head?

Last edited by centaur : 10th January 2018 at 16:19.
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:41   #147
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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Originally Posted by centaur View Post
Came across this in my feeds this morning but couldnt post it earlier because of work. A guy is riding a commuter motorcycle (nothing fancy here) in the driving on the wrong side of the road without any safety gear (not justified even with the most expensive safety gear in the world) in the middle of a National Highway. Apparently this is near to the spot where the accident in the OP of this thread happened. Looks like a villager who has absolutely no regard for his own life or others. Take a look and be the judge
....What should be done with this pin head?
Oh my god!. This is maximum insanity. In all of my years driving/riding in India I have never ever seen this first hand or otherwise. I have seen all weird squid acts like you all but not this. Absolutely mind boggling squid act. This pin head needs to be awarded 'Paramvir chakra' while he can take it being alive. unbelievable!!
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Old 10th January 2018, 16:42   #148
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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I did read the article. As it says - even if the guy who got hit was at fault you’re still liable.

In any case you will be arrested and produced before a court. The cops have no (or rather, very little) discretion in the matter if there is death or serious injury.

Next story was last year. I was waiting at a red light
You seem to be mixing up two completely different situations and coming to the wrong conclusion about jaywalking.

The rule is that all accidents must be reported to the insurer, for which you would need an FIR from the police, and they will follow procedure. It doesn't automatically imply fault.

In case of loss of life the driver of the other vehicle or their insurer is liable to pay up to a maximum of 50k if it was not their fault - applicable in a jaywalking scenario. This is the real reason why third party insurance is mandatory, though it again does not automatically infer guilt. If it was the drivers fault, the courts would decide the quantum of fine and of course possibly prison term.

You're quite welcome to believe otherwise, and in some ways mob mentality and the automatic assumption of guilt based on the size and price of vehicle makes yours the more practical view, but it is not the law.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is the very result of increasing income inequality.
This is the sad excuse used to gain political and financial mileage from an unfortunate and heart wrenching situation, while doing nothing to prevent it in future.

I've frequently seen - as mentioned by others - parents in Bangalore walking small children on the traffic side rather than themselves. Boggles the mind. Some of these children are too small probably to even be seen from the drivers seat of a Fortuner for example. God forbid anything should happen to the child, I do not doubt the grief of the parent, yet I would certainly question their sanity for not using a foot path if available, and for not keeping themselves between traffic and their child.

Before anyone jumps on me, I do not think the child was at fault. The parents certainly share it, as probably the biker, but the child is just the victim of a terrible, preventable tragedy.

Last edited by VeluM : 10th January 2018 at 16:44.
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Old 10th January 2018, 17:04   #149
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Default re: Bangalore: Bikers being thrashed by locals after an accident

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This is the sad excuse used to gain political and financial mileage from an unfortunate and heart wrenching situation, while doing nothing to prevent it in future.
I don't think you understood what I said. What PrasannaDhana pointed out is not a political or financial problem, but an economic one. Something I regularly discuss in the economics thread.
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Old 10th January 2018, 17:28   #150
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Default Re: Bikes being thrashed by the locals

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Originally Posted by Skyline_GT View Post
Just because he/she hit someone doesn't mean they are rash drivers. More often than not in our country it's the pedestrian who's at equal or at more fault than the rider/driver.
I may sound harsh but I feel more sorry for the rider who tasted the mob beatings rather than the girl who lost her life. For all we know it could be completely her fault for crossing the road without being careful.
There is a reason ADULTS get driving license and not children - it is because it is expected from said adult to take into consideration a child or an animal might act in a manner which can put both their lives at risk . As a rider and driver myself , I always make it a point to slow down to a speed where my vehicle can come to an immediate halt in case of an unforeseen obstacle . One may feel sorry for the rider in the sense he has to live with the guilt of killing a small child though I do wonder how one can feel more sorry for him than the child ...Also to say the same without even knowing what transpired and who really was at fault is callous to put it mildly.
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