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Old 23rd January 2018, 18:00   #46
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
If we buy a good branded helmet (Vega and the likes) certified with ISI, we can be sure of our safety. The issue of helmets with a fake ISI stamp is different. Those 100 rupees "Ferrari" helmets with fake ISI stamp is not safe i agree

Again, I'm in no way supporting this blanket rule of "Only ISI" as someone wrote, all we need to do is to show (MORTH or RTO or Police) that helmets made according to foreign standards are equally safe and should be allowed
I would invite you to show me a "ISI" marked helmet safer than a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark.

Infact random googling shows Steelbird Air (ISI marked) to weigh 998gm - compare this with a fully carbon fibre AGV Pista GP which weighs 1400gm. Even if i remove the extra weight due to better padding/visor etc - can you explain how this ISI marked helmet is structurally safer despite weighing lesser than a fully carbon fibre helmet ?
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Old 23rd January 2018, 19:18   #47
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

This is indeed a stupid decision by BTP. But the elephant in the room is this -

Why on earth do traffic cops need to disrupt moving traffic and check for manufacturing and QC standards of a helmet? They are not even professionally qualified or equipped to do so.

Isn't it the responsibility of other departments (and ministries) to ensure that spurious or uncertified helmets (locally manufactured or imported) do not make it to a retail outlet - under a tree by the roadside or in a store?
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Old 23rd January 2018, 19:30   #48
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by get2bid View Post
I sincerely hope you meant to say that this short-sighted nonsensical move is NOT being adopted by the other state policemen as well.
Oops... My bad, I was supposed to say NOT adopted. Thanks for correcting.

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Originally Posted by Caramba View Post
Leaving aside all the other desirable things we would want the traffic cops to do, here they are enforcing the law as written. We cannot complain about them not enforcing some laws when they do enforce laws we do not like. I do not see how the police can recognise an alternate, albeit better, standard when the laws specifically prescribes a standard. So we should be petitioning the government and not hauling up the cops.
Yes, the police are indeed not equipped to recognise a ISI branded helmet, because I can see that even the helmets sold by roadside vendor without a brand name, do have a 'ISI' mark. Like someone said, the government should not be allowing these unsafe helmets to be sold in the first place.

Hope, the Transport department come back with a positive reply for the Additional Commissioner's query.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 22:14   #49
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

I will always no matter what wear a DOT or a SNELL approved helmet for Motorcycling, Auto-X or dirt riding.

Unless ISI standards include the same levels that Shoei, Arai, and Bell run (I have a few friends who work for Bell and do plenty of side impact and high impact testing). Yet again this sounds like police trying to pick on people trying to be safe.

When I rode in Vietnam, not a single cop cared about my Bell MX-9, if anything they cared more and were impressed. When I do plan to tour in India, I will still rock my Shoei RF-1200, possibly my other "USA" gear which is safe and boots.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 22:27   #50
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Fellas.
Don't bang your head against the wall.
People arguing with you are the same that say maruti is better than VW.
Rock your helmets, put a sticker or just keep extra 100 RS notes handy.
Just consider it the cost of being safe while riding in India.
Cheers.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 23:06   #51
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Let the police first ensure people wear and tighten their neck strap ...
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Old 24th January 2018, 00:34   #52
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
I would invite you to show me a "ISI" marked helmet safer than a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark.

Infact random googling shows Steelbird Air (ISI marked) to weigh 998gm - compare this with a fully carbon fibre AGV Pista GP which weighs 1400gm. Even if i remove the extra weight due to better padding/visor etc - can you explain how this ISI marked helmet is structurally safer despite weighing lesser than a fully carbon fibre helmet ?
Haha brother, you're talking logic and sense. That is NOT entertained here.
If I was a biker, I'd keep the spare change with me to pay these guys off than get an INFERIOR "ISI" HELMET.
And for those supporting this, I'm pretty sure you haven't spent 15k on a helmet .
It's more of a live and let live situation. I don't think this thread will go anywhere apart from "my ISI helmet better than your DOT helmet" .

p.s. The people who have expensive and safe helmets must make for only 0.1 or even less of the population. I'm very certain their hues and cries will be falling on deaf ears.

Such is life, just gotta deal with it. My major concern would be the insurance companies washing their hands under unforeseen circumstances.

Last edited by aah78 : 24th January 2018 at 02:42. Reason: Post edited & fixed. Use the Report Post button if you have any comments / recommedantions. Thank you.
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:56   #53
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

More confusion regarding this rule. According to this article from TOI, BTP is planning to write to transport department to seek clarity regarding the usage of non-ISI branded helmets.

Quoting from the article,

Quote:
On Tuesday evening, Hitendra tweeted to elicit the views of bikers on the demand to postpone the drive. More than 90 people responded to this tweet: Some welcomed postponement, and a few others said the drive must go on against those riding without helmets or wearing substandard ones.

Professional motorcyclist Santosh Kumar, also associated with Motorcycle Travellers Meet, said bikers in the city have begun collating data on helmet quality, and they will make a representation before the transport department to consider allowing use of such helmets. Santosh said not letting riders use such helmets would defeat the purpose of the law, which was put in place to ensure that people wear good quality headgear.

Advocate Shamanth Kumar, also a professional motorcyclist, said: “We are seeking an appointment with the transport commissioner this week or early next week. If we get no relief from the department, we will file a petition in the high court.”

While pointing out that all imported helmets are cleared by the Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS), which awards the ISI mark, traders said imported headgear are of much better quality.

Transport commissioner B Dayananda said: “We are yet to receive any communication from traffic police, but it is common sense they must allow these helmets if they are safer than ISI ones. The whole pur- pose of the enforcement is to enhance people’s safety.”
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:17   #54
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
The second part is where i have a different opinion, Indian companies are good in misleading . Scenario 1 - An ISI mark for a product can be obtained for n number of reasons (including production standards) and they will put that on a helmet, and general public / authorities get misled with that believing it is compliant for safety. Scenario 2 - It is a well known fact in manufacturing to make test samples 'special', and once the production starts standards can 'vary', since the tests and liability process are tedious and time consuming, many of them gets off easily with such malpractices. This is where i am slightly better off with a reputed international brand, where the brand has lots more at stake and are careful with what they claim OR stick on their helmets.
Definitely agree that chances of all kinds of misleading things are possible in our country. But then the learning that the Dieselgate gave us is that we can't trust reputed foreign brands "blindly". Some cheat using the loopholes in the system, while others cheat with their intelligence! What I wrote was that Like the stupid blanket "Only ISI" rule, we should not say that ISI standard itself is inferior. The helmets that do not follow these standards (but are still marked with one illegally) are inferior

Quote:
Again not saying all are upto these mischiefs, but peace of mind is definitely better with well know imported brands.
Exactly, In fact I would say that very few are not up to any mischief. I agree that you "feel" safe in a foreign branded helmet. And that's why this blanket rule is absurd.

Quote:
Where the imported products score high is with finish, weight, sound insulation (that is very important on longer and faster rides) and overall longevity of the product. Somehow best of Indian helmets are still a notch below at these.
Yes, when it comes to these parameters, Indian helmets have still a long way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
I would invite you to show me a "ISI" marked helmet safer than a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark.
Sorry, But I'm not interested in engaging in any kind of brand wars. Imported brands definitely score high with finish, weight, sound insulation etc.

Quote:
Infact random googling shows Steelbird Air (ISI marked) to weigh 998gm - compare this with a fully carbon fibre AGV Pista GP which weighs 1400gm. Even if i remove the extra weight due to better padding/visor etc - can you explain how this ISI marked helmet is structurally safer despite weighing lesser than a fully carbon fibre helmet ?
I'm not qualified to perform comparative tests and show it to you. Also I do not know if weight alone dictates safety. If you are qualified in this subject, please show me that an ISI standard helmet (not just marked) is unsafe compared to a ECE22.05 standard helmet. Only thing I know, after having read both the ISI and the ECE22.05 standards, they are almost same. If only we had some NCAP kind of test results available.

Anyway, If I had a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark, I would go to a local sticker guy and get that ISI mark for the sake of our Police. Or better, I would get it painted with a stencil. Let's see what the Transport department replies to Bangalore Police department's request for clarification regarding this topic
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:31   #55
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
I'm not qualified to perform comparative tests and show it to you.
One point to remember is that BIS tests on its own (via accredited testing agencies I guess) whereas the western countries rely on self-testing. BIS sources test samples from the manufacturer's warehouses as well as from the open market.

BIS's test protocol for helmets is here (unfortunately this frequently refers to the standard itself which we don't have access to):

http://www.bis.org.in/qazwsx/sti/CMD-III164151sti.pdf

Also, when we consider prices as a proxy for quality - we should remember that there is about 40% import duty.

Point being - yes, imported helmets are expensive. Yes, they feel safer. That doesn't mean that the whole helmet industry in India is a sham. Not everyone can afford a 15K helmet; they have to make do with the 2K one. What the cops ought to ensure is that they don't go with the Rs. 300 UTMT ("under the mango tree" - old b-school joke) helmets and put themselves at risk.
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Old 24th January 2018, 10:52   #56
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by sukiwa View Post
Yes, Axor helmets via Vega, check here.
I have Axor helmet. It is Dot certified but no ISI sticker in the helmet.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:05   #57
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Stupid as it might sound but one also needs to understand from the perspective of law enforcement.
  • First Step: Priority would be to get the riders don Helmets.
  • Second Step: Would be to ensure the Pillion ride with Helmets
  • Third Step: Would be to ensure that the helmets are at least certified by an authorized agency (ISI in this case)

NOT TO MENTION tackle the menace of Identifying FAKE "ISI" STICKERS on Helmets and prevent people from riding 3/4 (or even the entire nuclear family) on a two wheeler.

Since the common cop is not an enthusiast, for sake of proper enforcement it would be prudent and easier to issue a directive that the Helmets need to be ISI MARKED and WORN and STRAPPED properly.

Therefore, think from the perspective of law enforcement of a huge country like India.



A Couple of Videos of Local Helmets sold in India




Last edited by payeng : 24th January 2018 at 11:11.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:12   #58
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by payeng View Post
Stupid as it might sound but one also needs to understand from the perspective of law enforcement.
  • First Step: Priority would be to get the riders don Helmets.
  • Second Step: Would be to ensure the Pillion ride with Helmets
  • Third Step: Would be to ensure that the helmets are at least certified by an authorized agency (ISI in this case)

Since the common cops are not enthusiasts, for sake of proper enforcement it would be prudent to issue a directive that the Helmets need to be ISI MARKED.

NOT TO MENTION tackle the menace of Identifying FAKE "ISI" STICKERS on Helmets and prevent people from riding 3/4 (or even the entire nuclear family) on a two wheeler.[/i]

Therefore, think from the perspective of law enforcement of a huge country like India.
Bingo! As mentioned by BTP, they are going by the rulebook which mentions ISI as the standard. Now the onus is on the transport dept/government to mention ISI/BIS/DOT/ECE etc in the rule book. Technically speaking cops are correct. I am seeing lot of blame game on the cops without understanding that they are bound to follow the rules too.

P.S : I am not a cop nor any of my family members.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:16   #59
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
Anyway, If I had a Arai/Shoei/Schuberth/Shark, I would go to a local sticker guy and get that ISI mark for the sake of our Police. Or better, I would get it painted with a stencil. Let's see what the Transport department replies to Bangalore Police department's request for clarification regarding this topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
Rock your helmets, put a sticker or just keep extra 100 RS notes handy.
Just consider it the cost of being safe while riding in India.
Cheers.
Guys don't even think, engage or encourage such stuff, faking ISI marking is bigger CRIME than wearing a DOT or ECE helmet, which at the best would get you couple of 100 bucks fine. The punishment for fake ISI mark is upto 1 year imprisonment and 50k INR fine if i remember correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand View Post
Point being - yes, imported helmets are expensive. Yes, they feel safer. That doesn't mean that the whole helmet industry in India is a sham. Not everyone can afford a 15K helmet; they have to make do with the 2K one. What the cops ought to ensure is that they don't go with the Rs. 300 UTMT ("under the mango tree" - old b-school joke) helmets and put themselves at risk.
I have a humble MT Revenge which i bought 3 years back for 5000 INR, it had 5 star rating from snell at that time, and is ECE as well as DOT certified. So all imported helmets are NOT 15k or above and they are very reasonable even today at 6-7k INR.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:21   #60
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Default re: Only ISI Helmet, says Bangalore Traffic Police. EDIT: Order withdrawn

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Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
Bingo! As mentioned by BTP, they are going by the rulebook which mentions ISI as the standard. Now the onus is on the transport dept/government to mention ISI/BIS/DOT/ECE etc in the rule book. Technically speaking cops are correct. I am seeing lot of blame game on the cops without understanding that they are bound to follow the rules too.

P.S : I am not a cop nor any of my family members.

Realistically it would be a bit too much to expect our cops to be trained properly to identity Multiple Helmet Safety Standards. In all probability it'll appear like Greek and Latin to our "hawaldars".

Other way would be to get the International Helmet brands willing to sell in India get the ISI Registration done.

THH Helmets (international brand) that are sold in India, is manufactured in India (Somewhere in Maharashtra if I know correctly) and are also ISI Marked.

The other day, I saw a ROYAL ENFIELD Branded OEM helmet on a rider which had both DOT and ISI Marks on it.

Last edited by payeng : 24th January 2018 at 11:36.
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