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Old 10th March 2018, 18:36   #16
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Default re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

All school vans and buses are fitted with speed governors in Bangalore. But they are among the most reckless and uncouth vehicles on the road. Just because they ferry children to school, they thing that they don't have to follow rules. Infact a lot of them are caught DUI. In addition to speed governors, there should be some device restricting acceleration too.
If anyone can get statistics of accidents in India, I'm sure that a lot more percentage of accidents occur at speeds below 80kmph. If restricted to non fatal accidents that don't get reported are included, then I'm sure 100% of them occur below 80kmph.
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Old 10th March 2018, 19:36   #17
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Default re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

I’m more surprised at some of the comments on this thread than the actual news itself. Really? You are supporting this idiotic, half-witted proposal? On a forum which is mainly for enthusiasts (who like acceleration, handling, power and torque)!

And guess what, irrespective of the top speed, accidents will still happen as there’s no cure for lunacy.
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Old 11th March 2018, 23:02   #18
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Default re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

I am surprised (or maybe I should not be) at our entitlement mentality of the middle and upper middle classes rearing up on this thread. We read the usual hackneyed refrain "Govt should do this" and "the Govt should do that" so long as none of our little pleasures are trampled upon.

No Govt not even that of a superbly efficient country like Germany can cure the ills of our roads, our abysmal behavior on public roads, our indiscipline and our corrupt under-paid, under-trained police force and the 3 million new drivers/riders joining in each year. Accept it that we are a nation of lawful followers mainly when there is no choice or the fear of the danda is real.

Hard restrictions like this amongst others will be needed to even start solving our problems. A lot more has to be done too but we can't say that till infrastructure {which is a 30-year effort} is solved no other effort or restriction should be placed. A public road is to get us from A to B in hopefully a reasonable time. It is there for all kinds of vehicles to use not just cars and two wheelers.

It is the cars and car owners (you & me) who are making the inadequate infrastructure more inadequate. Speed limits 80 kmph for all I say. Why do we need to drive at 120 kmph? Why do we need cars with 160 bhp to lug around our 75 kilo backside? Why is our presumed right to speed at a 3-digit speed more critical than attempting to solve what is at the very least a colossal problem. Pithy statements like we need better infrastructure reflect both the lack of imagination as well as a real understanding of the cost and effort required.

Better infrastructure - ok are you willing to have a part of your residential locality and the road your house is on demolished to create space for wider roads? We always assume a NIMBY attitude. Let some slum be demolished for the road not our apartments and bungalows. As a forum we need more senior Govt officers who deal with these problems of policy and planning to share their perspectives.

Other wise the only shade of grey we get to hear most of the time on policy matters are the views of the young private sector employed YUPPY which from a road transportation point of view is a very narrow part of the full spectrum.

Last edited by navin : 12th March 2018 at 12:43. Reason: formatting
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Old 11th March 2018, 23:31   #19
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Default re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Speed limits 80 kmph for all I say. Why do we need to drive at 120 kmph? Why do we need cars with 160 bhp to lug around our 75 kilo backside?
Sorry to say, but I can’t fathom your statement. Why should be speed limited on every car or bike? I understand reasonable speeds but 80? What if you’re on highway? How would you bear the fact that all that money you spent on your high tech, powerful 6/8 cylinder or an advanced hybrid is of no use as both the acceleration and speed has been limited to a joke of a numerical figure? Or say tomorrow I want to take my car to a track, what would I do?

Why did you spend your valuable hard earned money on a Volvo/Lexus when let’s face it, Jazz was more than enough to take you from point A to B in reasonable comfort?

As a reasonable community let’s not support unreasonable, unscientific, obstructive suggestions by dim-wits in power. You think accidents will stop if such rules are implemented? I think not.

Instead why not give the suggestion of installing speed-cameras all around? Charge heavy penalty, suspend license..I’m all for it. What kind of humongous budget would it take to install speed cameras all around considering our great government spends a lot more on things which don’t require spending?

Regards

Last edited by The Brutailer : 11th March 2018 at 23:41.
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Old 11th March 2018, 23:31   #20
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Default re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

People who think speed governors are a good idea should have a chat with people who already have them, NONE OF THE WORK One has to pay huge amount of money to get that primitive looking thing, then get it installed and just place it on the dashboard.They don't actually have it plugged in.

Don't believe me? check the speed at which Volvo Buses overtake you next time.(They should have the limiter as per rules I believe, restricted to 80km/hr).

I am tired of being milked already, what a joke things are turning to be.
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Old 12th March 2018, 15:59   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
I am surprised (or maybe I should not be) at our entitlement mentality of the middle and upper middle classes rearing up on this thread. We read the usual hackneyed refrain "Govt should do this" and "the Govt should do that" so long as none of our little pleasures are trampled upon.
Very well said, Narayan! I absolutely agree.

Sadly, this comes across in multiple multiple areas. I hear my colleagues complain about roads, infrastructure, lousy MLA in the area, etc. etc. But do they even do one small mite to make a difference - i.e: put their votes when it matters ? You should see Bangalore's voting stats. It is dismal - Never crosses more than 50% and in that lion share would be that of very low income group. A good percentage of colleagues would gladly seize the holiday given for excercising their franchise rights to go for a vacation. Who wants to stand in a Q and vote anyways ? and yet, when it comes for any problems - be it infrastructure, rain water flooding, you name it - ALL are ready to come out and do arm chair criticism of their so called elected representatives!

While I don't fully subscribe to the proposal of imposing speed governors, in our country where jugads, workarounds and "chalta hai" attitude rules the roost, sometimes even these ludicrous "rules" may be needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Sorry to say, but I canít fathom your statement. Why should be speed limited on every car or bike? I understand reasonable speeds but 80? What if youíre on highway?

As a reasonable community letís not support unreasonable, unscientific, obstructive suggestions by dim-wits in power. You think accidents will stop if such rules are implemented? I think not.

Instead why not give the suggestion of installing speed-cameras all around? Charge heavy penalty, suspend license..Iím all for it. What kind of humongous budget would it take to install speed cameras all around considering our great government spends a lot more on things which donít require spending?

Regards
Mate - You are missing the bigger picture here.

Some thoughts:

Firstly most of our roads/infrastructure are NOT designed/suitable for high speed driving - even the four lane/8 lane highways. There are far too many crossings and un-fenced stretches where anything from a dog, stray cow, or a short-cut hankering two wheeler may suddenly appear.

Just for reference - most of our express trains are calibrated to run at about 80 to 90Kmh, even though they can be easily made to run at 150+kmph - main reason ? Preference for safety.

Secondly, the number of law enforcement officers vis-a-vis the number of motorists/vehicles on the road are badly skewed ratio. For instance, Bangalore city just has about 3000 or 4000 policemen. Speaking of highways, the ratio will be more skewed.

Thirdly, with our penchant for flouting the law and finding loopholes, the number of violators who will be brought to justice will be very less.

Fourthly, most of our driving training, attitude on the road are highly inadequate - It is so easy to get DL without really knowing how to drive properly. Given this background, it is indeed an extremely risky proposition to hand over a high power/high speed vehicle to these "raw" and green hands who really don't have the skills to drive these machines. Sadly, this percentage of people owning a far more powerful vehicle than they can safely handle is quite high since the disposable income available to the youngsters are quite high these days

Fifthly, the so called "enthusiasts" are much much smaller percentage compared to the mass market and population - hence the preference for a "solution" which caters to the larger section may be more attractive to the law-makers.

So what is the solution ? I wish there was some readymade easy solution - but this is not so. At the end, hopefully, a decision is taken, which is beneficial for the "most" road-users. What it will be - difficult to predict at this juncture.

Last edited by aah78 : 12th March 2018 at 17:01. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 12th March 2018, 17:50   #22
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Talking Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Sorry to say, but I canít fathom your statement.

...


Instead why not give the suggestion of installing speed-cameras all around? Charge heavy penalty, suspend license..Iím all for it. What kind of humongous budget would it take to install speed cameras all around considering our great government spends a lot more on things which donít require spending?

Regards
Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
I am surprised (or maybe I should not be) at our entitlement mentality of the middle and upper middle classes rearing up on this thread. We read the usual hackneyed refrain "Govt should do this" and "the Govt should do that" so long as none of our little pleasures are trampled upon...

...mainly when there is no choice or the fear of the danda is real.

...
It is there for all kinds of vehicles to use not just cars and two wheelers.
...

As a forum we need more senior Govt officers who deal with these problems of policy and planning to share their perspectives.

are the views of the young private sector employed YUPPY which

I agree. We are not there yet, I mean, the 19th century. That is why I suggested the bullock cart.

When a majority of us are walking, these dirty diesels and polluting petrol vehicles should allowed only on special days; may be "car day"?

Our honourable government officers have continued with the old British laws and ideas. We need radical ideas; we should have been at the forefront of urban planning with the "pedestrian first" system. Instead we allow powered vehicles to take the easiest path while the disabled, aged and those with a serious heart condition have to climb a 5-storey staircase on a national highway to get themselves to the heart hospital on the other side. And this is no laughing matter - check out the foot overbridge near Narayana Hrudayalaya on Hosur rd., Bangalore.
I don't even see the healthy, young, "yuppies" willing to climb those high-rise foot over-bridges near their offices.

But what exactly would our government officers do? If their solutions (e.g. the foot over-bridge )are totally out of sync with the reality in India, should we not tell them that their idea is not good before they implement it?

And who would bear the brunt of their bad decisions? None of the senior government officers use a two wheeler and those who are in four wheelers would not be affected. It would again be the same set of victims - where is the safety in limiting the speed to 80 KMPH? And why a governor?

Yes, we are a "low trust society", and that is why it would be better to go with The Brutailer's idea - speed cameras. Automated ticketing would generate revenue like Google ads. It would be cheaper than fitting a governor on every 2-wheeler and we could cash in on our lawlessness too!

I would even go further and put up some of those automated barriers that rise up to stop traffic when the light turns red at junctions (paid for by the profits from the speed cameras, obviously!)
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Old 12th March 2018, 18:53   #23
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Default Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

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Originally Posted by mvadg View Post
And this is no laughing matter - check out the foot overbridge near Narayana Hrudayalaya on Hosur rd., Bangalore.

I don't even see the healthy, young, "yuppies" willing to climb those high-rise foot over-bridges near their offices.

But what exactly would our government officers do? If their solutions (e.g. the foot over-bridge )are totally out of sync with the reality in India, should we not tell them that their idea is not good before they implement it?
Don't get me talking about foot-over-bridges and subways!
I agree with you wholeheartedly on your sentiment - They are absolutely sr.citizen/ differently-abled UNFRIENDLY

The sad reality is there is not much the govt is willing or can do in this regard. What other options are there ? Traffic lights with pedestrian crossing ? This is the biggest joke in our country! If no cops are around, even if the signal is RED, there are enough people willing to zoom away - be there is people walking or otherwise.

I was working at a office near bommanhalli few years back - Daily I could see people literally playing the dare-or-die game of crossing the hosur road running across the road. There is a subway - yeah - only used as a public toilet and a place for doing shady activities.

Near Tin-factory, Bangalore - first police put movable barricades, tied together with steel wire in the median to prevent people crossing the road, people found loop holes and made small openings and darted in between risking life and limb! Now they have made 5 foot concrete barricade which is not easy to scale! (Though I have seen some brave (?) lads trying this also!)

so the answer for allowing smooth, unhindered traffic ? build foot over bridges. People begged for at least providing elevators - answer ? no funds (Probably, the netas have all divided it up. The coffers were empty, anyways)

Quote:
where is the safety in limiting the speed to 80 KMPH? And why a governor?
The reaction /stoppage time even at 80KMP is far too risky for the average motoroist (I am excluding people with cat-like reflexes and razor sharp concentration). So even 80kmph is way too high! Why a governor ? - Again this is related to the mentality of the general population - Most follow rules ONLY because someone is there to monitor/check and not because they appreciate the importance. If no cops or no cameras ? break all the rules, bindas!

Quote:
...- speed cameras. Automated ticketing would generate revenue like Google ads.
Now, this is a good thing - if it actually worked. Couple of years back, I saw a BTP news that close to 40 to 50% of challans are NOT paid or are returned back to the sender - because the address is no longer valid. Most people don't update their latest addresess in the DL/RC. With the highly floating population, the actual cashing in on challans - quite less!

Quote:
..put up some of those automated barriers that rise up to stop traffic when the light turns red at junctions
Ha! this is interesting - Again taking the "highly" disciplined (?) Bangalore city - They had put those nice reflective plastic poles in the starting of the BETL tollway (when coming from silkboard side) as a lane separator so that vehicles going under the flyover will not stray into the lane for vehicles which goes onto the BETL. Within one week most of these poles were kaput or broken! with vehicles running over them. And at this place, most of them there will be at least 1 or 2 BETL traffic warden deputed Similary in cubbon road! there are many many examples I can think of in Bangalore itself. I think the situation will be similar in most cities.

All things considered, Speed governors (Not saying that it is the best idea!) may be far more easier to implement - especially with the majority of the population still not having sufficient maturity to self-disciplining themselves!

Last edited by haria : 12th March 2018 at 19:20.
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Old 12th March 2018, 19:03   #24
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Default Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

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Originally Posted by haria View Post
the number of law enforcement officers vis-a-vis the number of motorists/vehicles on the road are badly skewed ratio. For instance, Bangalore city just has about 3000 or 4000 policemen.
Bangalore Police have recently released data that there is 1 traffic policeman for every 2xxx vehicles. This is amazing stats. On a regular junction which sees a vehicle density of 30-40k vehicles every hour, this means at least 10 policemen can be deputed. For reference calculate the number of doctors or lawyers or judges per 1000 population and you will realize that there are way too many cops on the road. How efficiently they function is another thing altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadg View Post
we should have been at the forefront of urban planning with the "pedestrian first" system.
Indians are lazy. In my layout, people use their 2-wheelers to go 100 feet to the fruit stall. No one walks. Pedestrian first will be a joke. Plus there is woefully inadequate public transport. Not everyone is in a 9-5 job at one place.

In addition to speed governors, I would like the govt to implement the spike strips that someone was talking about. You stop at the stop line but in the next 45 seconds atleast 20 vehicles are ahead of you. The new dividers though a pain in that you are stuck behind the slowest vehicle (Usually a BMTC bus or an auto or cab cruising for a fare), atleast ensures that you're not going to be in a head on collision.
Time is the cheapest commodity in India. Let's sacrifice our time for a safer city.

Last edited by wildsdi5530 : 12th March 2018 at 19:09. Reason: Additional point.
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Old 12th March 2018, 21:23   #25
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Default Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

Without going into the right or wrong of this thought process. It has always intrigued me as to why Govts around the world allow manufacturers to make vehicles that can go faster than the highest posted speed limits.

There are two ways to look at it

Viewpoint 1 - If you think that Manufacturers got around by bribing/lobbying Govts in making faster vehicles, then is it time for the Govt to fix the mistakes of the past? I mean what could be the legal/valid reason for a Manufacturer to make a vehicle go faster than allowed maximum speeds? If you say track, with current technology those adjustments could be made specifically for track.

Viewpoint 2 - The Govt needs to trust an individuals judgement and let them decide as adults what is a safer speed to travel and only provide guidelines on how fast the vehicles can go. Is Govt trying to curb its citizens rights by putting a speed governor? Probably not as driving a privilege and not a right, but then should a Govt put restrictions on all privileges?

Anyways personally I am torn on this as I know accidents happen at slower speeds too but there are more than enough idiots on our roads who don't know how to handle high speeds.

The question is should a majority get punished because of the mistakes of few? And before we answer that how big is the impact of the mistakes of those few?
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Old 12th March 2018, 22:20   #26
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Default Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

The article says that two wheeler riders are more prone to accident, I kind of agree with this point though I don't believe that by limiting the speed to 80 kmph the number of accidents would decrease substantially. I personally believe most of the accidents occurs due to human error & due to lack of proper driving knowledge/ manners.

I personally don't know how to ride a 2 wheeler properly & my father didn't own any 2 wheelers, so my time on a two-wheeler is limited. While driving a car in city I have always found that most of the 2 wheeler tend to squeeze in every possible gap & are quite a menace on our roads. For the last month or so I have been riding pillion in my friend's scooter, only now I have realized that the 2 wheelers are the biggest threat to fellow 2 wheelers. My friend is a sedate rider & he generally rides on the left side of the road. One thing I have commonly observed is that one two wheeler would honk & overtake from the right side leaving no gap which then makes my friend swerve to the left, in the same time some other guy would be overtaking from the left, leaving no space for our scooter.

Lets say these 2 wheelers were limited to 80kmph, would they drive differently at city speeds?? Nah, I don't think so. So, I would say if lane discipline & driving manners can be somehow improved, the number of two wheeler accidents would reduce significantly. I have always wanted to ask this question, legally can you have more than the one vehicle (both 2 wheelers & 4 wheelers) on one single lane?? Mostly the two wheelers tend to squeeze in every possible gap & end up having 2-3 vehicles parallel to each other on a single lane.
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Old 15th March 2018, 13:43   #27
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Default Re: Proposal to install speed governors on all two-wheelers

Reminds me of a recent quote by Kannada actor Upendra.

Quote:
Wearing of Helmet and seat belts are only for the purpose of safety.If you are really bothered about my safety,then please repair roads time in time,provide proper street lights,and then send your officers to penalise for violating traffic rules.

If Iím liable for paying penalty,you are liable to pay me a compensation.
Note: He is referring the government above.

I agree that it's a controversial statement. Unless people start driving sensibly and have a self realization, enforcing rules like mandatory use of Helmet, seatbelts, using governors to limit are not going to help.
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