Go Back   Team-BHP > Team-BHP > Road Safety


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th December 2014, 19:19   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
fine69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,418
Thanked: 877 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

With respect to the guidelines that say that bull-bar is illegal, is it really lucid? I mean is there an operational definition of what exactly qualifies as a bull bar. Are the plastic nudge guards (like the one in Duster) equally illegal or does it have to be metal. If its metal then do the steel bumpers of Thar / Ambassador illegal too? Where would the aftermarket ARB bumpers fit then?

Too many questions and little clarity.
fine69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2014, 09:39   #47
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 47
Thanked: 16 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
The Renault Duster Adventure has a plastic bullbar with 2 extra fog lamps as a stock fitment FYI.
Wonder how quick members here are on getting crisp and clear information. Thank you for the photo and clarifying model details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batterylow View Post
I think the metal bull-bars are the dangerous ones.

The huge house gate type ones with an array of auxiliary lights and additional horns mounted.

The plastic bull-bars IMO work just like bumpers providing crumple zones to dissipate the crash force, unlike the metal contraptions which are mounted to the chassis directly and transmit the impact to the chassis.
Thats makes sense since bullbars are non-metal. Thank you for clarification.
speed_edge is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2014, 23:30   #48
BHPian
 
devilwearsprada's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GoonGaon
Posts: 535
Thanked: 914 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
The Renault Duster Adventure has a plastic bullbar with 2 extra fog lamps as a stock fitment FYI.

Attachment 1319876
True that. Its factory fitted and more or less designed as per the spec of the crumple zones. Bull bars(Metal Type) are more or less designed universally and then moulded to suit the car.
devilwearsprada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st December 2014, 07:10   #49
BHPian
 
batterylow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Driver seat!
Posts: 578
Thanked: 711 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilwearsprada View Post
True that. Its factory fitted and more or less designed as per the spec of the crumple zones. Bull bars(Metal Type) are more or less designed universally and then moulded to suit the car.
And more importantly, mounted on the chassis.
batterylow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2014, 09:01   #50
Team-BHP Support
 
Gannu_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madras
Posts: 5,002
Thanked: 10,409 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Here is a Nano parked at the basement of our apartment:

Bull bars, good or bad??-wp_20141228_13_05_19_pro.jpg

Bull bars, good or bad??-wp_20141228_13_05_29_pro.jpg

Heh and we were talking of the Ertigas and Innovas with bullbars and the related safety issues.
Gannu_1 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2014, 10:09   #51
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,295
Thanked: 4,870 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

But with the recent crash testing reports where most of the small cars failed to score even one star, I have my doubts if addition of bull bars would make any difference to the already poor crash safety.
saket77 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2014, 12:42   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,668
Thanked: 14,313 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
But with the recent crash testing reports where most of the small cars failed to score even one star, I have my doubts if addition of bull bars would make any difference to the already poor crash safety.
The 1 star that they failed to earn also will be down the drain if they go equipped with these 'bull-bar' for the crash test.

These installations are mostly word-of-mouth done by some 'Scorpio; Qualis; Tavera owner" who say that their car is protected with these bull-bars as compared to ones that don't.

If the awareness is spread as to what damage do these do to car and its worthiness during a crash will scare the day lights of these owners. Millions are just ignorant and getting it installed blindly, just for the heck of it. Show-off IMO!

Anurag.
a4anurag is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2015, 13:28   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: kolkata
Posts: 86
Thanked: 113 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Friends - here's my first hand experience.


When I turned around to look at the Innova - I was in for a shock. The entire front section had caved in, and the bonnet had come loose.

Later the front bull bar had to sawed out. The extent of the damage -
a) Perforated front bumper - had to be replaced
b) Broken Front Grille
c) Broken Support strut for the lock mechanism of the bonnet.
d) Both Front headlights damaged.

Total bill -> 25000.

The service advisor remarked , that I am lucky the bull bar did not cause more damage. Had I not installed it, at worst the bumper would have had to be replaced as it is designed to absorb shock of low speed impacts. Besides had it been a hi-speed impact, the air bag would not have deployed, instead the force would have been transmitted to the body-shell, bypassing the air-bag system.

Lesson learnt. No more bull-bars for me.
Dear Joy Da,

Saw the new red scorpio 4x4, and you had not installed the same on it, though, it would have looked very macho, butch and smart, because of this earlier incidence.

The reason why most bull bars get broken (and hence pierce the body, grill, radiator etc) are of the following:

They are not made of a single piece pipe, but an amalgamation of multiple pieces, joined initially by a weld 'tacka' to hold the pieces together and then a very thin weld by an electrode and not a ss wire, as it should be (incase of a fully ss pipe), and incase of a ms pipe make, the weld is done and then grounded off by a grinder, to smoothen the junction, for a nice finish and then send off for a chrome or nickel polish.

In us and australia, where bull bars are more prevalent, the fabricators have a jig, which have mandatory and specified space between any 2 joining ss pieces (dictated by the thickness, length and strength required from that joint). Its a painfully slow and donkey work, as the tremendous amount of generated from a ss weld (above 1550 C, whereas the MS, ductile needs only 1150C, and further needs heat treatment or annealing if required ); which actually creates, waviness and distortions, if done continuously for more than few seconds.

Very few people have the knowledge of the right electrodes to be used for different types of ms or ss alloys and even less for ms with a ss, joint.

so a simple perpendicular whack with a hard object will break that joint, not to talk about the complex "torsional" forces which act during an accidental impact, which happens in micro seconds.

The poor joint has no chance to survive, but break into open ended pieces, which act as multiple knives, and penetrates any metal or plastic body.

But a perfectly ss welded which is actually not a weld any more, as in ss welding, the ss wire is molted and filled into the space to make it as one full homogeneous, material, without a joint. it can be bended, twisted but cannot be broken into 2 pieces. its unbreakable !

Another fact, is the use of ultra thin pipes, to the tune of 0.8mm to 1mm (for branded). If one uses 1.6mm or 2mm ss pipe, you would need 1, 10 tonner truck at considerable speed to create a dent (dimple effect) (like the innova rear side picture ).

God forbids, i shudder to think the consequence suffered by any pedestrian being hit by a bull bar; not to say about being dragged by the protruding joining points under the vehicle. They should be banned, infact, unless given as an OEM, by the vehicle manufacturer.

Hope i was able to make clear, why indian, or cheap or most bull bars, crack or break at the earliest instance of an impact.

Happy Motoring. Waiting for the TL of this pujo vacation. The biryanis suggested in lucknow were great.

Hope people who worship bull bars as a macho statement, can pray to have full ABS bull bars, developed by the OEMs, with the airbag sensors, embedded in them. The installation too, integrated into the main bumper (very unlikely as, they themselves are fastened with few plastic clip-ons, at regular interval).

Regards

Last edited by dr. sen : 23rd October 2015 at 13:35. Reason: forgot to add this point.
dr. sen is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2017, 00:42   #54
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: JH01/JH05
Posts: 2,496
Thanked: 14,612 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
But with the recent crash testing reports where most of the small cars failed to score even one star, I have my doubts if addition of bull bars would make any difference to the already poor crash safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
The 1 star that they failed to earn also will be down the drain if they go equipped with these 'bull-bar' for the crash test.
Millions are just ignorant and getting it installed blindly, just for the heck of it. Show-off IMO!

Anurag.
Do I need to say anything more about the usefulness of the bull bars??

The bumper is gone but the bull bar is intact.

Bull bars, good or bad??-20170603_171933.jpg

Bull bars, good or bad??-20170603_171935.jpg

Regards,
Shashi

PS: Clicked by a friend.

Last edited by Leoshashi : 4th June 2017 at 00:43.
Leoshashi is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2017, 19:53   #55
BHPian
 
sparky@home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: KL08/KL46
Posts: 231
Thanked: 371 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

The government’s Ministry of Highways and Road Transport (MORTH) has just banned bull-bars on cars and SUVs running on roads of India. The ministry has sent out a letter to the transport commissioners of all the states of the country, urging them to act against those vehicles running bull-bars.
The ministry has also indicated that bull-bars are illegal according to the Section 52 of the Motor Vehicles Act. It has also pointed out that using bull-bars on vehicles attracts penalties under the Section 190 and 191 of the Motor Vehicles Act.
In the next few days, we may see RTOs and traffic police personnel across India acting against bull-bars, heavily penalizing drivers for running them, and also getting these hazardous accessory removed from vehicles. This drive may be similar to the one that was conducted a few years ago, after a Supreme Court judgment made window tints illegal on cars running in India.

http://www.cartoq.com/indian-governm...to-start-soon/
Attached Images
 
sparky@home is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th December 2017, 15:12   #56
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,282
Thanked: 3,864 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (4)
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

I am glad someone has woken up to it. Let me see them vanish from Neta SUVs first. Only then I will believe it.
sgiitk is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th December 2017, 20:23   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
Red Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,383
Thanked: 1,440 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

I wonder what happens to all these offroad bumpers that many 4x4s have been sporting around these days with a winch etc.
Red Liner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2017, 12:42   #58
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DL9C
Posts: 2,647
Thanked: 2,517 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

Good to see the Govt. taking some useful decisions. I had written to them about this menace when they were inviting suggestions for redrafting the MV act way back in 2014. Now it comes down to the implementation. Hope the States take this seriously and crack down on offenders. Just like they did for the sunfilms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Wrote to rtsbill2014-morth@nic.in (provided on the Ministry's website) to frame a law for prohibiting the use of any kind of bull bars (front or back) on cars. This is an absolute nuisance these days. Even in case of a mild, low speed impact, it can prove deadly for pedestrians, especially older folks.

Hope they take note and do something about it.
EDIT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I wonder what happens to all these offroad bumpers that many 4x4s have been sporting around these days with a winch etc.
Exactly my thought. A casualty in all of this melee, could be the purpose built offroad bumpers many 4x4 owners install these days. Wonder how will they be classified.

Last edited by Dry Ice : 19th December 2017 at 12:44.
Dry Ice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2017, 15:52   #59
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Tejas@perioimpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 4,020
Thanked: 5,421 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

There is a dedicated thread on this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...guardsl-5.html

Please continue here.
Tejas@perioimpl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2017, 21:10   #60
BHPian
 
sparky@home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: KL08/KL46
Posts: 231
Thanked: 371 Times
Default Re: Bull bars, good or bad??

The Indian government has revealed that both the car owners using bullbars on their vehicles, and the dealer who fits it to the vehicle are liable to be penalized. Afine of Rs. 1,000 will be levied on owner for using a bullbar on her/his car or SUV. Subsequent offences will attract a fine of Rs. 2,000. The government has also highlighted that dealers who sell/import cars fitted with bullbars will also be penalized if such vehicles are found to be running on Indian roads with these illegal accessories. Dealers who sell cars fitted with bullbars will also be penalized with a fine of Rs. 5,000.
The Section 190 of the Indian Motor Vehicle Act deals with owners using bullbars on cars and SUVs. It reads as follows,
any person who drives or causes or allows to be driven, in any public place a motor vehicle, which violates the standards prescribed in relation to road safety, control of noise and air-pollution, shall be punishable for the first offence with a fine of Rs 1,000 and for any second or subsequent offence with a fine of Rs 2,000.
Section 191 of the Indian Motor Vehicle Act deals with the penalty that can be imposed on dealers,
Whoever being an importer of or dealer in motor vehicles, sells or delivers or offers to sell or deliver a motor vehicle or trailer in such condition that the use thereof in a public place would be in contravention of Chapter VII or any rule made thereunder or alters the motor vehicle or trailer so as to render its conditions such that its use in a public place would be in contravention of Chapter VII or any rule made thereunder shall be punishable with fine which may extend to Rs 5,000.
Both these sections need to be read with the Section 52 of the Motor Vehicle Act, which states that,
No owner of a motor vehicle shall so alter the vehicle that the particulars contained in the certificate of registration are at variance with those originally specified by the manufacturer.
As bull-bars are not fitted at the factory by car makers, and are not homologated, they are considered to be an illegal modification unless explicitly endorsed by the RTO on the registration certificate (RC) of the modified vehicle. Notably, bull-bars have always been illegal going by the wording of the Section 52 of the Motor Vehicle Act, which has been in place for many decades now. However, it is only now that the Government of India has sent a letter to all transport commissioners of India’s states, asking them to crack down on this extremely popular accessory.
Via TOI

SOURCE : http://www.cartoq.com/indian-governm...llbar-fitment/
sparky@home is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are "bull bars" legal in India? navin The Indian Car Scene 86 8th August 2017 18:43
Crash Bars For Cars - Good Or Bad adrian Technical Stuff 2 3rd May 2013 10:51
Ultra Racing Strut Bars: Mumbai dealer Aditya Nath delivers bars that don't fit! Sledge Modifications & Accessories 5 18th December 2012 15:55
My accident - Bad brakes, bad rain, bad luck... vezj420 Street Experiences 41 22nd May 2007 10:49


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 05:55.

Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks