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Old 14th December 2017, 12:38   #31
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Femur is the longest bone in our body and there are multiple complications if the fracture is bad. Not to be taken lightly.
Absolutely. Agreed.
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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Punto did not offer good protection even for chest, neck etc. No wonder if scored only 51 percent against 83 percent of Swift in front impact tests.
And no. Thats not correct, as far as i know. The primary difference here is the Femur, not chest or neck as far as AOP is concerned. Points scoring explained here -

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-picture.html


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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
The lower models of Punto don't even get airbags in India. Maruti has made them standard in all Nexa cars. Anyways FCA is not interested in this Punto platform anymore in India.
Again right on both fronts. If Global NCAP tests as well - the Indian Punto will get a big zero. And deservingly so. FIAT should make airbags mandatory at the very least! Just yesterday an office colleague asked me if it was worth buying the Evo now, and i asked him to go figure out what additional is present in the car after all these years since I bought mine. They should just stop it and concentrate on the Compass till some replacement can be made available later.

Maruti has made airbags mandatory and that surely is praiseworthy - but I'll trust their safety standards once a car passes the tests. They've clearly been selling different grade stuff for the Indian market and they are clearly behind the bullying to lower the 64kmph testing criteria for India, but the recent developments have been very encouraging. Forget Nexa, even the DZire was launched with safety kit standard. But only BNVSAP will throw a clearer picture.

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This just helps me to make the point clear that heavily build, stable chassis etc doesn't mean the car is safe.
Absolutely. Right.

Between a stronger, heavier car and a lighter one with better tested crash ratings - I'll anyday prefer the latter. For example - If i were to buy new now, its the Etios over Punto now.

Between two cars with equal crash ratings - its the stronger, heavier one for me anyday - just because it feels good. So Etios will get ditched for the Polo. An equally old car, but well upgraded and kept relevant by Volkswagen.
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Old 14th December 2017, 12:55   #32
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

Since Punto and Swift are being compared it is also worth noting the "standard" equipment difference.
The "standard" variant of the swift had more airbags and rear belt pretension and load limiters.

Punto :
Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP-punto.jpg

Swift:
Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP-swift.jpg

If we were to make this relevant to the Indian market I would prefer the India Punto over the Indian Swift from a safety standpoint. The argument of lighter cars not being safe goes out of the window when one looks at how the Etios Liva performed in the Global NCAP.

Last edited by rajathv8 : 14th December 2017 at 13:01.
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Old 14th December 2017, 13:19   #33
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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And no. Thats not correct, as far as i know. The primary difference here is the Femur, not chest or neck as far as AOP is concerned.
Tests on the front seats and head restraints demonstrated poor whiplash protection in the event of a rear-end collision. This is very serious Neck Injury. Whiplash protection is included under AOP in Euro NCAP. Posting the image!
Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP-img_20171214_125933.png

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They've clearly been selling different grade stuff for the Indian market.
Yes, in the past. We all know how Swift was compromised for Indian market. But Maruti has not done that for Baleno. It's made only in India and exported to Europe. The body shell is same. I have confirmed it personally from my birdies and even the weight is same. Even S-Cross 1.6 made in Hungary and made in India weigh almost same, so I believe Maruti has not compromised on structural integrity . But I can't be very sure in case of S-Cross like Baleno.

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Between a stronger, heavier car and a lighter one with better tested crash ratings - I'll anyday prefer the latter. For example - If i were to buy new now, its the Etios over Punto now.
This is the main point which I was talking about .

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 14th December 2017 at 13:25.
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Old 14th December 2017, 13:46   #34
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

The Punto has actually performed well for a 2005 design. I'm sure the rating of the other Indian budget cars will be much worse barring a few. The Indian cars even struggle to keep their body shell intact (Swift, Zest, Aspire, Scorpio etc.) let alone scoring well. With some more airbags, it would have performed better. Almost every single budget Indian car will perform terribly in a side impact due to the absence of side airbags anyway. That said, FIAT should at least make airbags and ABS standard on the Punto and Linea if they are in no mood to pull them out of the market.

I also wonder if the position of the neck restraints will have any impact on the whiplash protection score.

PS I see that the car tested has the dash from Punto Evo as opposed to the old dash on the 2005 test. Could that have had any impact?

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But Maruti has not done that for Baleno. It's made only in India and exported to Europe. The body shell is same. I have confirmed it personally from my birdies and even the weight is same.
Wasn't there a report that Maruti improved the structure of the Baleno at the time of launch of the RS to ensure that the structure passes BNVSAP tests?

Last edited by theredliner : 14th December 2017 at 13:49.
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Old 14th December 2017, 13:53   #35
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Wasn't there a report that Maruti improved the structure of the Baleno at the time of launch of the RS to ensure that the structure passes BNVSAP tests?
Euro NCAP crash test of Baleno was done way back in April 2016. Baleno RS was launched in March 2017. I have even seen and checked Baleno export variant and got the information directly from Maruti engineers

If Maruti has further improved the design in 2017, it would still score better in Euro NCAP tests
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Old 14th December 2017, 13:59   #36
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Euro NCAP crash test of Baleno was done way back in April 2016. Baleno RS was launched in March 2017. I have even seen and checked Baleno export variant and got the information directly from Maruti engineers

If Maruti has further improved the design in 2017, it would still score better in Euro NCAP tests
Here is the part I was talking about,

Quote:
Maruti has made some welcome changes to the chassis, steering and suspension with the Baleno RS, but not because it’s an RS. These will actually be rolled out to all Balenos from now on and are in the interest of better crash-worthiness. The structure has been reinforced, and this has added about 60kg to the kerb weight (still a featherweight 950kg), so the suspension has been stiffened to compensate. The steering also has clearly been retuned, and though it’s still not the most communicative or quick, it does have a lot more weight than before and it, mercifully, returns to centre far more cooperatively after you’ve turned it.
Source

I am not doubing you or your birdies at all, but knowing Maruti and their attitude towards safety, there is no way they would make an Indian car safer than a European one (they don't even offer a middle seatbelt or neck restraint). If an Indian car needed to be strengthened to pass BNVSAP, how can it be as safe as/safer than a Euro model knowing how much diluted our test is compared to GNCAP, let alone Euro NCAP.

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Old 14th December 2017, 14:05   #37
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
I am not doubing you or your birdies at all, but knowing Maruti and their attitude towards safety, there is no way they would make an Indian car safer than a European one. If an Indian car needed to be strengthened to pass BNVSAP, how can it be as safe as/safer than a Euro model knowing how much diluted our test is compared to GNCAP, let alone Euro NCAP.
I am not sure how true this report is. The weight is up because of new booster jet engine and other components. The weight of other models are the same, no difference. The Baleno which was crash tested in Europe was made in India and it has the same body shell as sold in Indian market. The weight is also same. This is why I said things have changed in Maruti
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Old 14th December 2017, 14:09   #38
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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I am not sure how true this report is. The weight is up because of new booster jet engine and other components. The weight of other models are the same, no difference. The Baleno which was crash tested in Europe was made in India and it has the same body shell as sold in Indian market. The weight is also same. This is why I said things have changed in Maruti
I wonder if Maruti has really bothered updating the weight of the other models. Anyway, would be absolutely happy if that is the case. One more reason to opt for a Maruti, especially the upcoming Swift Sport

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Old 14th December 2017, 14:16   #39
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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I wonder if Maruti has really gone ahead and updated the weight of the other models. Anyway, would be absolutely happy if that is the case. One more reason to opt for a Maruti, especially the upcoming Swift Sport
There is hardly any difference in weight if you compare Baleno sold in Europe and India. We all doubt about Maruti because of old swift episode and there was difference in weight, design of components etc. It's not the case anymore. I hope Maruti doesn't compromise on Swift Sport too
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Old 14th December 2017, 14:50   #40
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

Now, this is one heck of a debatable topic.

Fiat Punto rated 0 stars in NCAP ratings, the same organization that rated the same car 5stars in the year it was launched, which was a decade ago.

So, in 2017 the criterias for judging safety of a car is changed, focus shifted to pedestrians, side impacts, roll overs, crumple zones redefined as per regulations.Designers are focused on cabin intactness on an event of crash than aesthetics of the car. All these changed, the only thing that has remained is the Car, which has been on sale for more than a decade.

I dont see why eyebrows are raised when it scores "ZERO" ratings in modern Crash test.
Pitch in any car from any manufacturer from that era and you are going to see a dismal performance than its current generation avatar.(ok no freaking out.Our Amby would still survive the ordeal)

I think, instead of pointing out any car manufacturer here, we must appreciate the NCAP organization for moulding their rules prompting manufacturers to give us products that are safe. They have made OEMs think safer, mould manufacturing processes, to make cars on road safer.
I also think manufacturers have started standardizing their products on these parameters than it was say 5 years ago, when safety features were mere attractions.

Be it Swift or Punto, either both are safe or both are unsafe based on what rules are evaluating them. Its the generation gap. Cars have come a long way from being just mobility solutions.
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Old 14th December 2017, 15:35   #41
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

Everything said and done, I would still give it to Fiat because 5 years back their Punto/Linea was safer than her competition (read: stable structure and comparatively better results of crash dummies) and inclusion of crash bars behind the front bumper (I see a thick bar of some material in my brother's Linea) and there are people still using those cars.

Their safety features in todays offerings are not enough because they sell the same old structure in new clothes, the only solution is to phase out the old cars and bring the Aegea lineup in India.

I wish they could do Ciaz, City, Linea, Vento crash tests back to back !
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Old 14th December 2017, 15:40   #42
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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I wish they could do Ciaz, City, Linea, Vento crash tests back to back !
Ciaz and City are not sold in Europe and you will not get the Euro NCAP results, but they have the ANCAP crash tests done.
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Old 14th December 2017, 15:41   #43
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
Euro NCAP crash test of Baleno was done way back in April 2016. Baleno RS was launched in March 2017. I have even seen and checked Baleno export variant and got the information directly from Maruti engineers

If Maruti has further improved the design in 2017, it would still score better in Euro NCAP tests
Does baleno have lane change assist, autonomous braking etc on which the Punto scored less?
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Old 14th December 2017, 15:45   #44
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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Wow !! One more chance to bash fiat. People jumping to the conclusions based on this report without even trying to understand what the test us about.
Subject indian cars like swift, scross to the same test and they will score in minus, if the scale exists.
This test has points for many new technologies expected to be used in 2017.
The 3rd generation Swift which is currently available in India had scored 5 stars in 2010(compared to 5 star scored by Punto in 2005), although it had side/curtain airbags. There should be no comparison to latest swift and Punto. Again I am comparing only Euro spec versions as we don't have comparative report for India manufactured one's.
While majority manufacturers have updated/updating cars to meet current safety norm's, Fiat seem to be quite happy to sell a decade old car with no plans to replace.
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Old 14th December 2017, 15:51   #45
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Default Re: Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP

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The 3rd generation Swift which is currently available in India had scored 5 stars in 2010(compared to 5 star scored by Punto in 2005), although it had side/curtain airbags. There should be no comparison to latest swift and Punto. Again I am comparing only Euro spec versions as we don't have comparative report for India manufactured one's.
While majority manufacturers have updated/updating cars to meet current safety norm's, Fiat seem to be quite happy to sell a decade old car with no plans to replace.
Fiat are done with the old punto. The new line is totally based on the new platform.

Fiat Punto, the first car ever to receive Zero Stars in the Euro NCAP-fiatargo2.png

Comparing the indian swift with indian punto with same airbags (2) no safety assists etc i would love to see the results. Earlier swift had unstable structure.
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