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Old 19th December 2017, 15:40   #61
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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Originally Posted by parsh View Post
They do sell front guard accessory for other models with an underlining footnote.
Agreed. Here, they mention it as an accessory for Scorpio.

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Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
I see you do agree that bull bar are not at all worthy but you are worried about the implementation by the local authorities. But that is a separate task and that can only be carried out after the amendment. How strictly it will be carried out is separate topic. But that is the case with all rules and then comes the fines which are levied on to the defaulters.
Totally agree. I removed the sun-film on my cars the moment it was banned, never got a parking ticket in my life because even if I have to walk a kilometer, I never park in a no parking zone etc. For all these, I don't wait for the whole world to comply before I do. My point was exactly on the implementation part. And unlike sun-film, which has indirect consequences, this one is a direct hazard to the vehicle as well as other road users. And I sincerely hope that the implementation is stricter in this case.

Last edited by A350XWB : 19th December 2017 at 15:41.
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Old 19th December 2017, 16:09   #62
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

Since everyone seems to be in agreement against use of bull bars, why not ban ads of SUVs with bull-bars in classifeid section to start with. That may a send a message and if all other sites such as carwale, OLX also follow suit, at least some progress is made on that front.
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Old 19th December 2017, 16:37   #63
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Exclamation re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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Originally Posted by parsh View Post
What does MVA, Section 52 say:

http://as2.ori.nic.in:8080/web/mva_ch4.jsp#sec_52

So ideally anything that does not conform to the factory design and manufacturing is liable to offence under section 52 for any and all vehicles for all kinds of non-factory modifications.
Excellent post Parsh, thanks for highlighting the CMVR Rules here. This supports the statement, which I made in the first page of this thread. I hope at-least the educated and informed T-BHPians welcome this move and lead by examples.

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
"Most" of the mods we see on the road (and also here on T-BHP - tire mods, tuning maps, exhaust/intake mods etc.) are some way or the other illegal.

They violate the CMVR rules related to vehicle safety, environmental pollution.

Spike
I believe with Bull bars the Head Performance Criterion (HPC) / HIC is affected.

Spike
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Old 19th December 2017, 17:52   #64
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

Why bull bars are useless to detrimental in small to medium sized cars is explained lucidly by BHPian sterlingjames

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ash-guard.html

Last edited by V.Narayan : 19th December 2017 at 17:54.
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Old 19th December 2017, 18:52   #65
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

Bull bars, as name suggest are used in rural places in many countries to shield from stray animals that come across the vehicle. Any small impact it will damage the mechanical like cooling system. To avoid this they used bull bars. Even today they use it. Australia is one of it.
Urban, I think this does not happen. It brings more problem to the car & it's Owner.
present design in particular front end, every part is designed and acts as a cushion to the main frame. Any impact on the front end hardly affects the main body frame.We have come to a stage where we remove the damaged part & replace them with new ones. expensive but convent, fast & perfect Job(all come with bolt on system).

Fenders & inside apron covers are becoming plastic to play a role in crumple zone.

Remember, a small mishap everyone are ready to go the Court. hard to prove your innocence.
I wonder what happens to Old TATA sumo which came with Bull bars as OE.

My finial verdict, no to bull bars.
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Old 19th December 2017, 20:36   #66
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

Hello All,

Few queries:

1. Are replacement steel / offroad bumpers also considered as bullbars? (in terms of LAW)
What about countless Thars who are fitted with aftermarket bumpers having winch. Mahindra itself sells as add on/ customization package. Many such Thars are used as daily drives and weekend offroaders.

2. What about vehicles like Bolero which comes factory fitted with a steel bumper and I doubt if it has any crumple zones at all. Why no uniform CMVR rule here?

3. After banning of tinted glass and bull bars which are good moves from Govt. can we also expect any mandate for Auto manufacturers to have Airbags / ABS etc as necessary and compulsory fitment for ALL the 4 wheeler sold in India (may be in coming years)

Drive Safe.

(PS: I am just asking my queries here, not trying to prove any point )
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Old 19th December 2017, 21:19   #67
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
Hello All,

Few queries:

1. Are replacement steel / offroad bumpers also considered as bullbars? (in terms of LAW)
What about countless Thars who are fitted with aftermarket bumpers having winch. Mahindra itself sells as add on/ customization package. Many such Thars are used as daily drives and weekend offroaders.

2. What about vehicles like Bolero which comes factory fitted with a steel bumper and I doubt if it has any crumple zones at all. Why no uniform CMVR rule here?

3. After banning of tinted glass and bull bars which are good moves from Govt. can we also expect any mandate for Auto manufacturers to have Airbags / ABS etc as necessary and compulsory fitment for ALL the 4 wheeler sold in India (may be in coming years)
1. Mahindra might sell the bumper as an accessory, but there could be a clause saying 'For off road use only' which could be present in the fine print. Of course, if its not homologated at the ARAI level then it would be illegal. However it is just my opinion. I have seen this message even on high wattage headlights which claims that they are for off road use only. That is how it is sold legally. Same would be the case with such accessories as well.

2. The upcoming BSNCAP will take care of cars like the bolero etc since they should pass the pedestrian and offset crash tests. At that juncture, maybe we will notice changes in the car, or I even doubt if the Bolero can continue to sell after that.

3. Mandate for ABS and Airbags is also coming up. I think this is also a part of BSNCAP but not sure about the same. Manufacturers who were non compliant earlier like Maruti are now beginning to tie the loose ends.

Such mandates are just steps towards a greater good. We cant expect things to change overnight. If so then majority of the vehicles on the road will end up becoming non-roadworthy.
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Old 19th December 2017, 21:29   #68
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

I have Mahindra OE ones on the front and rear, in my Thar. Now confused if its still legal or not. Hope to get an answer soon. I'm happy to remove and go back to the plastic ones.
But will be happy to have clarity on below points:
1) Clarity on not to modify the rear loading area of Ace, Dost and other similar vehicles. These guys intentionally crisscross knowing they have a extra steel to save them and scare others.
2) Public paid parking should have standard dimensions for each bay.
3) Transport buses in city should have rubber padding around them, these government and private buses scare the life out of a car driver. (because no one can teach common sense & these drivers will never follow traffic discipline). i know its not practical, just a wish.
4) Autos must not be cone shaped, (narrow in front and wide at the back). These guys have metal guards over the fenders and just squeeze past in traffic not bothered about scraping the nearby vehicles.
5) (Little out of topic) If a pedestrian jumps over median or just runs in-between out of no were to cross the road and gets injured by any vehicle, the case should not be filed on the vehicle but on the pedestrian instead.

Because these are the ones which scare a private car owner and force him for such mods. i have painted my Figo bumper 2 times on the front ( and replaced ones) and rear was repaired twice, painted for scratches twice and finally replaced once. And all of them happened in public paid parking, stand still and <15 km crawling traffic.
And trust me you cannot argue with Chennai Auto drivers.

The funny rule here is if there's an accident, the case will always be filed against the bigger vehicle (even if its not his fault) unless the opponent has any legal flaw (no license, drunk etc..)

My own experience, a motorcyclist came on the wrong side of the road at a good speed and hit my car standing on red signal waiting to turn left. he broke 3 bones and i had to pay from my insurance and the rest from my pocket. The cop simply said that its the rule. On top of spending for him i had to pay 80K to fix my front end.

If government fixes theses issues grey areas then most private vehicle owner will not have to go for these bull bars or crash bars.
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Old 21st December 2017, 10:32   #69
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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The government has deemed bullbars illegal and in violation of Section 52 of the Motor Vehicles Act, 1988; accessory negates effect of safety systems
Source: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...n-india-406856

Quote:
The Highway and Road Transport Ministry in India has issued an immediate ban on bull bars in cars in India. The order issued by Priyank Bharti, director, MVL under MoRTH ministry, states that, “The fitment of crash guards/bull bar is in contravention of Section 52 of the Motor Vehicles Act, 1988.” Violators will attract penalty under Section 190 and Section 191 of the Motor Vehicles Act, 1988. The penalty amount ranges between Rs 1,000 to Rs 5,000 or imprisonment from three months to three years
Source: https://www.carwale.com/news/bull-ba...inistry-32354/
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Old 21st December 2017, 14:09   #70
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

Does this qualify here? I know it is factory fit but I believe it will be one heck of a job to convince our over smart babu's.

Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards-crash.jpg
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Old 22nd December 2017, 00:41   #71
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

It is nice to see that bull bars are being banned, but the thing in India is that banning something on paper is one thing & implementing it is a different thing. Lets hope this is implemented like the sun film ban.

If a pedestrian is hit by a Bull bar/ Crash guard it can prove to be fatal, whereas there will be a lesser injury if hit by a soft plastic bumper. AFAIK metal bumpers is many old cars (e.g- Old Omni) were changed to plastic bumpers for pedestrian safety, by fitting a bar bull in front of it the whole purpose of the change was defeated.

Also with modern cars being equipped with crumple zones & airbags, having a bull bar can hinder the proper working of these. The Manufacturer does a lot of R&D to design the front of a Car in such a way that it keeps the passenger compartment intact in the event of a crash & by fitting a bull bar all of these are nullified.

Along with the ban of bull bars, I would like to see the following changes-

1) All buses & trucks have solid metal bumpers, I am sure these can be changed to better designed bumper made of softer plastic.

2) Small commercial vehicles like 207DI, Ape etc have a poorly designed rear loading area, some design changes could be made so that they don't rip apart every car panel they come in contact with.

3) Lane Discipline, AFAIK one lane should mean one vehicle whether it is a big SUV or a scooter. But I have seen most of two wheeler don't know/ care about lane discipline. This can be easily checked by traffic police at least in Junctions/ traffic crossings.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 00:42   #72
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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Does this qualify here? I know it is factory fit ... ... ...
That baffles me. Factory fitted accorded to what standards and rules? Mercedes: conforming to European safety rules? Really? I can't see how those tubular sections are any less harmful to a human body than any other. Maybe, if one has to be sliced, there might be some comfort in being sliced by something expensive?

I'd take the same angle grinder to these as I would to any other bull bars.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:13   #73
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

I feel banning crash guard is good but at the same time dashcam (front and back) should be made as mandate and car owners should just show the video to insurance to get their claims with no cost to owner.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:49   #74
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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That baffles me. Factory fitted accorded to what standards and rules? Mercedes: conforming to European safety rules? Really? I can't see how those tubular sections are any less harmful to a human body than any other. Maybe, if one has to be sliced, there might be some comfort in being sliced by something expensive?

I'd take the same angle grinder to these as I would to any other bull bars.
I agree with you. Everyone so vocal about bullbars on lesser SUVs suddenly went silent when a Merc pic sporting bullbars is posted. And the poster of the pic is even supporting bullbars. Just on this car, I'm sure. Wow! What can I say?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:58   #75
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Default re: Government to take strict action against bull bars & crash guards

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Does this qualify here? I know it is factory fit but I believe it will be one heck of a job to convince our over smart babu's.

Attachment 1708174
So what ? May be ARAI erred in providing certificate to MB or may be they got certification for G wagon without the bull-bar and later fitter the accessory without approval who knows.
In many countries bull bars are allowed but not on road.

AFAIK G Wagon is out of production now , Ambassadors and fiats of yore used to have metal bumper but that does not mean laws should not be enforced.

Last edited by amitk26 : 22nd December 2017 at 11:59.
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