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Old 21st February 2018, 17:10   #31
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

What a waste! 98 crores and the last semblance of pleasure in everyday life down the drain.

Why not install all cars with speed-limiters? Because, they don't fill state coffers with monies.

This initiative has nothing to do with safety.

Last edited by ashwin489 : 21st February 2018 at 17:15.
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Old 21st February 2018, 17:29   #32
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

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Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
The idea is to ensure people follow traffic rules while driving, not the ease/difficulty of selling and transferring a car.
This is my last post and I don't see any point debating further.

If that's the idea, the manual system that is used worldwide can be used here and the vehicles can easily be stopped at toll booths with immediate fine collection.

You can't implement advanced cameras when basic systems like name transfer are properly implemented.
You will understand this only when you sell a vehicle and the buyer refuses to do a name transfer .

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridharj77 View Post
While there are many reasons for accidents, the major reason is over-speeding.
There are no statistics to prove your point unless you quote newspapers and Indian cops who blame overspeeding for everything. On the contrary, there is enough evidence to show accident rates have decreased despite increasing speed limits in USA.

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I dont think that is strictly true. What is true is that relatively few accidents happen on motorways to start with.

Rural and cities areas are where the vast majority of accidents happen and it has been proven that putting speed cameraas in place does reduce the average speed and the number of accidents in that particular spot.
True enough . If only the cops and administrators realize this.

Most accidents in India happen at intersections and building underpasses would solve this. Let me give you an example.

I know of this particular spot on the entry to Sriperumbudur , an industrial town on the Chennai Bangalore highway where over a dozen fatalities have occurred. A friend of my friend was one of them.

The simple solution is to put up a signal or post a cop to direct traffic. Most victims were on a two wheeler and could have saved their own lives if they had a bit more patience and be considerate of trucks which have a longer stopping distance instead of taking them on.

Last edited by Ragavsr : 21st February 2018 at 17:30.
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Old 21st February 2018, 17:31   #33
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

I'm afraid it won't work or serve the real purpose

1) Now I really don't want to give the authorities new ideas but the Vellore to Krishnagiri stretch is probably one of the fastest and the most thrilling section down south. Ironically, it doesn't feature in the list! Why? Simple! Not many towns in between! It's the local traffic/pedestrians that are responsible for most of these accidents! For example
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/drive-...ml#post4359493

2) Speed limits will force people who are in a hurry to drive rash. And that's nearly 90% of road users.

3) Personally I've felt that sticking to 70-80 KMPH on those 4 lane highways in Kerala can give a false sense of security. I find it very easy to lose concentration! Maybe I need to downgrade my car since speed limits won't be raised for sure!

4) I'm 100% sure these guys will install the cameras in all the free sections and not before any accident prone zones, towns and junctions! Kerala did it and they're making hay!

I'm not completely against speed limits-they should exist in accident prone zones, towns and school zones.

Limiting speed is never a solution to the real problem. The correct solution is to make driver's licence a privilege and not an address proof.
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Old 21st February 2018, 18:34   #34
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

There are roads where speed limit would be 80 but we can hardly cross 40, then there are places where speed limit would be 60, but we can safely do 120! This idea will only increase the travel time further, making the driver more tired and impatient.

For reference, it takes 6 hours to cover the distance between chennai and my home town would increase even more if they limit the speed to 80 or 60. Rules can't be further away from harsh reality of road users.

Where is the infrastructure for which I paid for, during purchase of my car, countless toll-gates and countless tax on fuel?
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Old 21st February 2018, 19:03   #35
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

This covet is very powerful. They are implementing many rules on auto companies like compulsary electrification, BS VI, airbags, ABS, etc. Why don't they restrict the top speed to 60/80 kmph at the factory itself? Of course some people want to buy cars for racing which can have their restrictors removed at the are track by RTO authorities for a fee. Why allow cars which cannot even go to the top gear at 60 to be manufactured? Speed restriction must start at home of the vehicle itself.
Also there is a fundamental flaw to this system. If they are pointing one way, they will not be able to pick up speedsters who are traveling on the wrong side.
I don't see the problem of slow moving trucks and 3 wheelers on the highway. Except in slopes and ghat sections. Usually trucks are moving at 80 - 100 kmph and auto rickshaws are at 60 kmph.
Tamil Nadu has some lovely toll roads which are unfortunately not generating enough revenue to the govt as they have sold the roads through BOOT scheme to private players. Now this may be a new scheme to generate money. For sure the punishment will be restricted to a fine only and most people will just consider it as an additional toll to be paid.
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Old 21st February 2018, 19:35   #36
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

There are some, ahem, interesting viewpoints being expressed! Speed limits are there anyway: do some people think that enthusiasts should not be subject to them?

(disclosure: No, I do not always obey them.)
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Old 22nd February 2018, 00:11   #37
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Such kind of a system is already in place in Jaipur. Do you know how people beat it? They simply reduce the speed for the stretch where the camera and sensor range is active. Once you are out of it, the normal driving resumes.
One needs to understand the mindset of the people and then create such systems.
In UK they used to calculate the average speed of the vehicle between two points and issue a fine if the speed was above the limit.

The best system in the country will be to make the drivers wait for 30 to 60 mins when found flouting laws. This is being tried by Maharashtra police on Mumbai Pune expressway and it was pretty effective. In a country where everyone is in a tearing hurry this is the only approach that can work IMO.
Another approach is to impound the vehicles and get it released only after appearing before magistrate.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 00:48   #38
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

There is a similar or same system in operation in Kerala. I think the MVD Kerala had a BOT agreement with KELTRON initially to install and run the system. The revenues collected by the department from fines went to implementing agency. Greedy, the agency started to place cameras where one perceived no real danger, and cars would speed, well above the then limit of 70 kmph. The MVD wanted the cameras to be placed in danger prone areas instead of the high revenue generating open stretches. The MVD, after repeated and unsuccessful attempts to move the cameras to where they wanted, tamed the agency overnight by raising the speed limit to 90kmph on most roads. The revenues dropped as it is difficult to drive more than that speed limit on most kerala roads, unless one is really crazy. The declining revenues has reportedly lowered the agency’s enthusiasm.

But the real danger lurking on Kerala roads are the mobile or handheld radars. They change positions as the sun moves across the sky, looking for shade. Once caught, you need to pay the fine, waste 10+ minutes and the hassle. No vehicle, whichever state registered, is immune to this trap like the fixed speed cameras. But I must admit that this has brought my driving speed down to under the speed limit as I hate to be pulled up frequently. Not sure if it has made my driving safer. Since there isnt much interaction with the police personnel on the ground, people in Tamil Nadu need not fear, just scout around and locate the cameras for a few months before speeding again.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 08:01   #39
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Been pondering on this for a while .. instead of creating a whole new jing bang for detecting and levying fines on citizens and collecting those .. Wouldn't it be just easier to have vehicle manufacturers put an upper speed in the vehicles? Na rahega baas, na bajegi bansuri.

The enforcement of speed limits through fines is moronic to say the least, just like cops lying in wait at the end of a one way street to catch someone. Levying a fine on a speed offender after having broken the speed limit does not make any sense, by then they have already sped and endangered people's lives, just that they are now alive to be slapped with a fine. Additionally, every Johnny they catch, there are probably 1000's who got away.

With a combination of today's GPS and sensor technology, am sure that even road specific speed limits can be enforced. For example, if one is on a city road near a school, automatically the higher speed limit can be reduced to say 30 kmph and when one is on the highway it is increased to 80 kmph.

The same technology can be leveraged to enforce traffic lights or one way streets, ensure right of way to emergency service vehicles or trucks hogging the fast lane. Yes, cops wont be able to collect bribes, but overall road safety level can improve significantly.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 14:16   #40
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

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Originally Posted by kimmig View Post
With a combination of today's GPS and sensor technology, am sure that even road specific speed limits can be enforced. For example, if one is on a city road near a school, automatically the higher speed limit can be reduced to say 30 kmph and when one is on the highway it is increased to 80 kmph.
.
In countries such as the UK and the Netherlands we already have dynamic max speed on certain stretches of the motorway. Depending on the traffic, exits and entries to the motorway etc the system calculates the most optimum speed to try and avoid congestions as much as possible and displays that on the electronic board on gantries across the motorway. It measure the average speed of each car against the displayed speed and if you speed you get a ticket!

Whereas there are endless debate about to what extend speed cameraas ensure road safety, all experts do agree on one thing. Speed cameraas and especially average speed check do help stabilize the flow of traffic and can help reduce congestion and traffic jams.

Jeroen
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Old 23rd February 2018, 00:15   #41
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

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Originally Posted by sridharj77 View Post
While there are many reasons for accidents, the major reason is over-speeding. I fail to understand why we allow vehicles with with the ability to comfortably reach speeds of 150+ and then fine for over-speeding
Over speeding doesn't cause accidents. It is a multifaceted issue and we cannot just put the blame on speed. For reference, look up Germany's autobahns which have far less fatalities than Indian roads despite hosting supersedans that can do well above 300 km/h (and they frequently do those speeds on them roads too!).

Good, scientific road design such as elevated ramps with adequate run offs and wide shoulders apart from even something seemingly minor such as the selection of the correct type of road compound goes a long way in preventing accidents, no matter what the speed or vehicle.

And let's not even forget proper driver training which is non-existent in our country. It's a joke.

Last edited by rshnvjy : 23rd February 2018 at 00:16. Reason: Grammatical errors
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Old 23rd February 2018, 00:55   #42
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

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Over speeding doesn't cause accidents. It is a multifaceted issue and we cannot just put the blame on speed. For reference, look up Germany's autobahns
But nobody overspeeds on Germany's autobahns, so your example collapses.

Speed is implicated in many accidents, and even where it might not be responsible, it helps to make them worse.

Of course, it is possible to drive lethally dangerously at 40kmph. We see proof of that every day.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:05   #43
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

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But nobody overspeeds on Germany's autobahns, so your example collapses.
My mistake! I should have simply said 'speeding' But I hope you understand what I meant to convey.

Quote:
Of course, it is possible to drive lethally dangerously at 40kmph. We see proof of that every day.
Of course. Speed doesn't kill as such. Speed, when combined with factors such as excellent, wide-land motorways with traffic that signals early and is courteous to other road users is in fact quite a productive tool! But unfortunately, such an ideal world is indeed difficult to have.

But that does not mean we must limit every vehicle on the road to whatever speed someone deems fit. That would be a half-hearted, and frankly lazy measure as opposed to working from the root cause.

As Jeremy Clarkson once said, "Speed hasn't ever killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
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Old 23rd February 2018, 01:36   #44
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Quote:
Originally Posted by rshnvjy View Post
Over speeding doesn't cause accidents. It is a multifaceted issue and we cannot just put the blame on speed. For reference, look up Germany's autobahns which have far less fatalities than Indian roads despite hosting supersedans that can do well above 300 km/h (and they frequently do those speeds on them roads too!).
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But nobody overspeeds on Germany's autobahns, so your example collapses.
.
A couple of pointers on the German autobahn and German accidents and fatalities.

German Autobahns are very similar to European in the sense they carry a lot of traffic but have relatively few accidents. Google a bit and you will find somewhere in the region of 35% of the traffic and 10% of the fatalities But even so there are many accident and fatalities on the Autobahn. And speed is a big factor on the Autobahn and Motorway accidents. No matter what happens, if you go that fast any accident is going to be very major!

In general for many western European Countries the number of accidents and fatalities in general and motorway specific has come down. There are many factors involved, but the introduction of maximum speed is definitely a factor.

There are many misconception about German Autobahn. One is that there are no speed limits. This is simply not true. The so called unrestricted speed stretches have been greatly reduced over the years. By and large more than 60% of the Autobahn does have speed limits. On it could be anywhere between 80-130 km/h.

On average another 15-20% of the Autobahn is being repaired/maintenance work/extended and there are always heavy speed restrictions in place. So these days the actual unlimited speed Autobahn stretches are quite limited. And although technically unlimited, the German have an advisory speed limit of 130 km/h. Legally you can go faster, but you open yourself up for unlimited liability in case of an accident.

So these day you will be hard pressed to find a good stretch of Autobahn with unlimited speed. A couple of years ago I visited the Classic Grand Prix at the Nurburgring. On a piece of unrestricted speed I put the hammer down. I managed to get my Jaguar up to about 251 km/h. That was on the GPS and still accelerating, so my real speed was likely to be even higher due to the lag in GSP speed when accelerating. (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intl-m...g-germany.html (Oldtimer Grand Prix at the Nürburgring, Germany))

I am quite used to driving fast, but at that point I lifted as it was just getting ridiculous. Think of it like this, I was overtaking cars doing 130 km/h. I was doing double that speed. If somebody checks their mirror and pulls out I could be on their bumper before they knew what hit them!!

Now, I would consider the Germans one of the , if not the most, disciplined driver countries in the world. By and large, they stick to all traffic rules, including speed limits. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t overspending. Germany has thousands of speed cameras all over the country, not just Autobahn, but also rural and city road. And believe me it’s not as if those speed cameras don’t go off constantly!

Jeroen
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Old 23rd February 2018, 04:39   #45
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

My big feeling: don't improve the roads, improve the drivers. Roads that appear easy to drive fast on are highly dangerous. Incompetent people will drive fast.

And everybody thinks they are competent
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