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Old 19th February 2018, 12:55   #1
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Default Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Tamilnadu is setting up a high end vehicle-tracking cum speed enforcement device, installed on the road which would automatically trace the vehicle registration number and create an e-challan for the traffic violation, as per the article in Times of India.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62974617.cms

TOI states that it will be operational in the next 2 months, on three important highway stretches in TN where the accident rates are higher; Poonamallee-Vellore, Madurai-Villupuram and Salem-Krishnagiri at a cost of Rs. 98 Crores.
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Old 19th February 2018, 22:58   #2
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Thanks for sharing, Batman! Moving your post to a new thread .
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Old 20th February 2018, 09:12   #3
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Isn't this similar to the Mumbai Traffic Police e-challan initiative?

Rehaan's review of the system. (Review: Mumbai Police's Online System for Traffic Violations (eChallans))

News on same from 2016.

Brilliant initiative nonetheless.

The only issue with the entire system is that the police keeps issuing challans, but many offenders have incorrect phone numbers or address, so difficult to get them to pay fines.

Though I think once Mumbai police tried to catch them on the road too.

Hope too see more cities go online with traffic challans.
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Old 20th February 2018, 10:17   #4
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

This system was followed in UK around 10 years back and was very effective. 2 probable problems:

1. The address in many cases, would not be updated, along with the owner information.

2. Once the positions of the cameras are known, people will slow down near them and continue on their merry ways everywhere else. I feel average time within toll booths would be a better implementation.

Nonetheless, a good initiative, and hope that this reduces accident related deaths.
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Old 20th February 2018, 11:23   #5
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
This system was followed in UK around 10 years back and was very effective. 2 probable problems:

1. The address in many cases, would not be updated, along with the owner information.

2. Once the positions of the cameras are known, people will slow down near them and continue on their merry ways everywhere else. I feel average time within toll booths would be a better implementation.
The App 'mParivahan' has 'Challan' and 'Tow Away' in the App's notification section. I do not know whether anyone had got their Challan listed for their registered vehicle in the app. So, if properly implemented this may be useful to some extent, for the ones who are willing to pay on their own, if Challaned.

The article says that the "Speed enforcement system has checking points installed every 5kms". 5Km is 'too close' in highways. So even if you travel at 60 Km/hr, you are going to face the Speed camera every 5 minutes. So dodging the camera is practically very difficult. But all these would serve the purpose, only if they maintain the entire system properly.
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Old 20th February 2018, 11:46   #6
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

This can only work if every state starts maintaining records on a central database.

Imagine this. A car from outside TN is caught speeding. The system will capture the registration plate and it is possible to find out the owner details. The cops then send the challan to the owner. However, since it is an out-of-state car they can't do much in terms of catching the culprit and making him/her pay up for the challan.
If however, the records are maintained online and shared with all the states, then when this same car gets challaned, in its home state, for any other offence all previous offences will also show up. You could then penalise the owner for unpaid dues and subsequently even jack up the fines for long pending un-paid offences.

As fas as I know, this sharing of information is not happening. I maybe wrong though and there might be something being developed for law enforcement agencies.
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Old 20th February 2018, 13:17   #7
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
This system was followed in UK around 10 years back and was very effective. 2 probable problems:

1. The address in many cases, would not be updated, along with the owner information.

2. Once the positions of the cameras are known, people will slow down near them and continue on their merry ways everywhere else. I feel average time within toll booths would be a better implementation.
Speed cameras in UK dates back much further than ten years. Even average-speed tracking is older.

When I last drove in UK, which is quite a few years ago now,

--- Fixed speed cameras have signs advertising their presence. Even navigation software has their locations.

--- Road markings, a series of spaced lines used in time-marked photos to prove the offence, are very obvious.

They do cause panic braking, which would lead to more accidents here, and, yes, people simply accelerate again between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batman View Post
... The article says that the "Speed enforcement system has checking points installed every 5kms". 5Km is 'too close' in highways. So even if you travel at 60 Km/hr, you are going to face the Speed camera every 5 minutes. So dodging the camera is practically very difficult. But all these would serve the purpose, only if they maintain the entire system properly.
I don't think that this is the sort of instantaneous-speed device that I have just been talking about. I think this is an average-speed-over-distance system. The time between entry and exit of the zone is noted, the average speed calculated, any any offence inferred from the result.

These did exist in UK before I left. They are very hard to fool, because sudden braking is irrelevant. They are psychologically very uncomfortable, because one feels a permanent need to drive at a speed lower than the limit, in case any moments of acceleration take one over the limit. Or, to put that another way: they work! Always assuming that enforcement happens.

If I remember correctly, I encountered these on stretches of London's outer-ringroad motorway, the M25. They work well with variable speed limits, which (again, "iirc") are in use to help control congestion on that road.

The shortest such zone that I recall controls the speed at which drivers cross Tower Bridge (aside: it is not called "London Bridge"), which is very short indeed.
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Old 20th February 2018, 15:34   #8
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

The system if implemented in letter and spirit is a very welcome move in curbing overspeeding accidents at high population density stretches.
My doubt is will they install adequate warning signs indicating the drivers the actual speed limit? If this is not done, then the drivers are caught unawares.
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Old 20th February 2018, 16:00   #9
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Similar systems have been deployed for many years in various European Countries. In a small country like my home country the Netherlands we have thousands of fixed camera-s and dozens of average speed stretches on many motorways.

Systems like TomTom have the precise coordinates of all fixed cameraas and the average speed camera stretches as well. The TomTom tells you when you enter the stretch and even calculates your average speed and compares to the permissible maximum speed.

In addtion there are usually some 10 to 20 random mobile speed traps. Again, TomTom has all the well known positions in their database and there are several apps that will tell you where they are. Several radio stations will broadcast mobile speed traps as well.

Even so, you would be utterly amazed at how many speeding tickets are generated. You would think everybody is fully aware of just about every location, but still people get caught out over and over again.

Its all fully automated and has been for many years. These are all digital cameraas than are on 24/7. No need to change film! Summons is send to the home adress (which in the Netherlands is in one very accurate database) of the registered car owner. Once you receive the summons, you can check online and see the photograph of the car and position. All payment is online.

Some countries dont allow your navigation device to show locations of speed traps. E.g France. When I drive to France there wont be any speed camera warnings on my TomTom. To circumnavigate the legal side of things, they disable that as soon as you cross the border. But it does flash up a strecth of road 300-500 meter as "requiring extra attention" or something similar. So you dont get the exact location, but approxiametely. Perfectly legal apperently.

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Old 20th February 2018, 19:40   #10
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

This is a tragic day if this is implemented for so many reasons.Sorry in advance if you find the rant long.

The only parallels I can think of is making an one month old baby run marathons or for the guys who understand tamil : the vadivel joke of a guy who is not able to stand up on his own legs wanting to have ten wives.

1. They must overhaul the downright stupid 19th century name tranfer system that puts all the onus on the seller. The buyer should be liable as well and if the police and courts can't act to force the new owner to change the ownership name and considering an ownership transfer takes days, what leverage does the seller have to force the buyer to transfer the registration.

2. The third party insurance system is something that wouldn't fit even in the medieval era. Its inefficient and slow.I would pay even 3 times the existing 3rd party insurance rates if accidents could be solved in a civilized manner.

I remember my dad having a rear ending accident by a cab and the cop issued a worthless certificate and asked to claim our own insurance and simply discouraged us from filing an FIR to claim from the cab's 3rd party insurance.

Not to mention the thousands I have heard people pay to compensate the accidents where they were kind enough to accept their faults. I have heard a few cases even in team bhp where members have asked for the other person's original licence as collateral for the money . Glad, they didn't come across a person like me, else they would have gone back with a few missing teeth and a broken nose.

A functioning 3rd party insurance system in itself will bring accountability for causing accidents.

3. Speed cameras are known to be huge source of corruption even in the USA, where absurdly low limits are fixed just to generate revenue. I mean , I saw speed limit boards of 15 kmph . Even on hilly roads that is funny. What would stop a city from fixing 5 kmph as the speed limit a single and fining every single vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by varunsangal View Post
Brilliant initiative nonetheless.
Ah! I guess I will miss the soon to be good old days of unrestricted speeds on the unregulated roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arvind71181 View Post
1. The address in many cases, would not be updated, along with the owner information.
With a stupid name transfer system that puts all the onus of name transfer on the owner, I would be shit scared to sell a vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
In addtion there are usually some 10 to 20 random mobile speed traps.
There is no speed enforcement at all outside the city zones . Its virtually unregulated as of now. They should first start enforcement manually to avoid the various pitfalls I have mentioned below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Speed cameras in UK dates back much further than ten years. Even average-speed tracking is older.
The problem is in India we have name transfer laws that date back to the 19th century at best and non functioning driver education and third party insurance rules that no person with a brain could have come up with.

I am a regular on all the 3 stretches mentioned above and the main cause of accidents are the irritating trucks which move at 30 kmph. Fixing a thousand cameras won't help.

Speed enforcement is just a death to car transport my a thousand cuts and is just a revenue spinner. Improvement in driver training and enforcing basic discipline would bring about a bigger reduction in accident rates.

Last edited by Ragavsr : 20th February 2018 at 19:42.
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Old 20th February 2018, 22:03   #11
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Many speed cameras in UK generate good revenue. Of course, it is said that that is the whole point. The authorities say that they only put them in dangerous places.

Speed limits are a mixture of genuine safety and politics. My old city, London, for instance, has been anti-car for a very long time. You may indeed find low speed limits in residential areas, and even lower ones near, for instance, to schools. But no, you will not find utterly ridiculous limits in combination with cameras. As I said above, cameras are signed, not secret, and non-standard speed limits would have to be plainly signed. When authorities get this stuff wrong, they end up being to told by the courts to repay large amounts. It happens. But this adds another element into the mix: transparent law enforcement and judicial systems.

If I had the job, the first thing I would do is install cameras at all main-road signals, and prosecute harshly. I'm not saying that I would not advise speed cameras too, but I'm hard put to say that speed alone is more dangerous than ignoring signals. And one has to start somewhere.

Getting across the message that traffic signals are not advisory or voluntary is vital.

It is almost surreal, driving through a British town late in the night, empty roads, non-one else in sight, and stopping at all the red signals. But we do. And should.
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Old 21st February 2018, 00:19   #12
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

The only real benefit of this system is that it will generate revenue for the authorities. Nothing else. Anyone who has any experience of Indian roads will know this will do nothing to promote safety. What we actually need along with proper driver training is a concept of minimum speeds. I find idiots doing 40-45kmph in the fast and middle lanes far more dangerous than those doing high speeds. They are the ones who create nuisance for everyone else and cause them to swerve and change lanes abruptly. They cause the chaos.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 21st February 2018 at 00:20.
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Old 21st February 2018, 01:34   #13
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

All good.

I know nothing about these things. Does it cost so much for a system like this, that too for something locally produced? 98cr to cover about 500km of road is a lot. The technology isn't new.

Sending out notifications on violations is one thing. Is there anyone following up on them?

On a different note, I am glad that such a system is slowly coming into place. This also means our post offices will still have some revenue flowing through them.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 21st February 2018 at 01:35.
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Old 21st February 2018, 01:39   #14
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Agreed that India needs better driver training and other road safety measures, but why am I seeing so much negativity about the speeding cameras being installed! isn't this a step in the right direction?
Just because we do not have proper database of the current owners should it stop authorities from having the speed cameras and issue challans?
Even if a single life saved/accident prevented would be worth all the efforts.
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Old 21st February 2018, 06:09   #15
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Default Re: Tamil Nadu is setting up a high-end vehicle tracking cum speed enforcement device

Good to see slowly state authorities are adopting new technologies to reduce the over speed related offenses. Like everyone here commented, there are obvious drawbacks like ownership transfer problems, present address of the owner may not be updated or the driver may be different etc. But we need to start somewhere to fix the mess. I think with the majority of citizens have Adhaar Card it would be worth linking the Adhaar, License and Registration numbers, vehicle insurance together and the pending dues can be recovered during insurance/registration renewal etc.

Fixed speed cameras have their own disadvantages like everyone mentioned, but governments normally advertise the location of the camera. That itself shows the primary motive of government is to reduce the speed-related fatalities. I wonder why can't they use live GIS image to issue fines?

In my opinion, the onus is on the road users, authorities have their own limitations.
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