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Old 10th May 2009, 14:37   #151
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you can double declutch but the new synchro system brings it up to speed instantly. but in your 800 it would be silly to do it without the double D.
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Old 10th May 2009, 16:13   #152
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
I drive an 800. It has pathetic brakes.
Absolutely. I drove an 800 for 4 yrs and without engine braking would have totaled the car on many occasions. On the highway, I would gently tap the brake pedal after downshifting to alert the guy behind me. At 100 kph, without your brakelights coming on, the guy behind is likely to hit you when you decelerate.
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Old 10th May 2009, 16:24   #153
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
I drive an 800. It has pathetic brakes. On a flat highway I plan my braking (I do make good time nevertheless), however there are times when a speed breaker looms up suddenly. I do use engine braking then. I have to.

There is a difference albeit a subtle one between taking your foot of the accelerator and using the engine to slow down the car, I'm sure you know that.

There is a comon misconception about engine braking. I have a cousin who got a new swift. I showed him how to use the engine braking since his car isn't ABS. A month later sitting on the passenger seat I watched him shift down from 3rd/55kmph to 1st. If you don't how to use it properly, it will kill the transmission.
We have some difference of terminology: I regard any slowing effect of the engine as "engine braking"; now I understand that you are talking about changing down, which , of course, gives much more engine braking. I guess there are all shades of grey in this. I recall now, for instance, one of my driving instructors teaching me that I can change down from 4th to 3rd and let the engine take the strain, but if I then change to 2nd, I must brake as well, as the gear ratios are too much of a difference.

Changing down (or trying to) into too low a gear for the car speed is one of those embarrassments that goes with inexperience!

I would say that one should always be in the right gear at any given moment --- but that is utterly dependent on car, driver and circumstance.
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Old 10th May 2009, 17:43   #154
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Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
Ideally yes. They should be used for their intended directions. There is no debating that. The question here is do we go tell the majority of the highway users who use it otherwise? Unfortunately since we can't do that it is more effecient to use it the way they use it lest we end up getting rear ended because of someone else getting confused.

Of course you are perfectly entitled to disagree.
I do (disagree)-- I believe we should simply ignore incorrect practices such as this, not follow it merely because others do so.


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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
. They don't teach us ITIL in driving school, but truckers go to a different driving school! And when a 20-tonne behemoth is communicating with us 1- or 2-tonners in his own language, we had BETTER understand his language... or get driven over!
But hasn't simply reading this thread shown you that there is no such universally accepted language?

In any case, understanding is fine-- all I'm saying is that as responsible drivers we shouldn't practise such practices ourselves!

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Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
you can double declutch but the new synchro system brings it up to speed instantly. but in your 800 it would be silly to do it without the double D.
Are you saying the Maruti 800 doesn't have a synchromesh system in its gearbox? I'm certain that's not true. I don't think you're using 'double declutching' in its usually understood meaning. I'll let someone else clarify!
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Old 10th May 2009, 23:51   #155
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Originally Posted by Perakath View Post
I do (disagree)-- I believe we should simply ignore incorrect practices such as this, not follow it merely because others do so.

But hasn't simply reading this thread shown you that there is no such universally accepted language?

In any case, understanding is fine-- all I'm saying is that as responsible drivers we shouldn't practise such practices ourselves!
Hey Perakath: Indian highways are about survival. Do whatever you please, learn whatever techniques of driving and signalling you want to, and read however many threads you want. When it comes to an argument with a truck, you lose. Every time. With half a million km of driving experience on Indian highways, that's all the advice I can offer you...
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Old 11th May 2009, 10:45   #156
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
We have some difference of terminology: I regard any slowing effect of the engine as "engine braking"; now I understand that you are talking about changing down, which , of course, gives much more engine braking. I guess there are all shades of grey in this. I recall now, for instance, one of my driving instructors teaching me that I can change down from 4th to 3rd and let the engine take the strain, but if I then change to 2nd, I must brake as well, as the gear ratios are too much of a difference.

Changing down (or trying to) into too low a gear for the car speed is one of those embarrassments that goes with inexperience!

I would say that one should always be in the right gear at any given moment --- but that is utterly dependent on car, driver and circumstance.

I think that engine braking is compulsory for all most all the vehicles , not just like Maruti 800 alone. I agre that Maruti 800 brakes are much weak compared to an Indica for example.

In highways one should not use the clutch and brake together , which is generally done during city driving , in slow moving traffic.
In highways if one uses clutch as well, engine simply won't stop. Brake should be used directly, and as for engine braking , I uderstand it as shifting to lower gears. It is not possible many times, for example to shift directly from 5th to 3rd gear,not only that, some times you may get resistance even to shift to 4th.
So you have to press the brakes, leave it and downshift , it works .
An expert driver will do this very fast , just so as to downshift, to use the engine braking and then use brake without clutch to slowdown very fast and since it is in lower gear he would accelarate again as much fast.

You can watch a video of this technique on youtube.com. It is amazing to see this technique used by racing car drivers. The only difference I felt was that they use this same technique much faster than us, normal drivers.
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Old 11th May 2009, 12:24   #157
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Default Wrong Side travelling

on my way back from BLR to HYD through NH7 last night, one thing that I experienced and dreaded the most was driving on the wrong side of the road especially in places where the one side of the Four-lane is getting constructed /repaired /closed. I have also seen people driving crazily in those places and taking undue risks just to save a few seconds.

Also saw a head-on collision between the container carrying trailer and a APSRTC bus. Trailer was on the wrong side on the expressway. Didn't look like either of the driver would have survived.
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Old 11th May 2009, 12:40   #158
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Originally Posted by venuraja View Post
In highways one should not use the clutch and brake together , which is generally done during city driving , in slow moving traffic.
The way this is put, is misleading. One should never use the clutch and the break together --- not until the last moments of the car slowing to a halt, when the engine would stall if one did not, should the clutch be depressed.

Changing down always requires judgement (although it becomes unconscious) to correct engine speed to vehicle speed in the new gear, or gentle release of clutch to allow the car to slow to the appropriate speed. 5th to 4th is negligible difference, even at high speeds
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Old 11th May 2009, 13:18   #159
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That's dangerous. If I were behind you, I would take it as you flashed the left indicator to signal that you are going to move left / park on the left, and I would look forward to overtaking you more strongly since you have communicated that you are going to give me way by moving left.
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Dude, I was talking of a situation where the vehicle behind me was pulling a move in a blind corner!
I do not just slot in the indicator tab and let it flash away to glory (which would indicate that I was indeed moving over to the shoulder with an intention of halting); just hold it there for a couple of brief flashes, to warn the overtaking vehicle to get back in line!

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Originally Posted by sdmn View Post
Like mentioned by many in this thread, indicators must be used to signal your intention to move left or right, not to communicate to other drivers what they must do!
I don't understand this POV. If I were pulling a potentially risky move (having failed to spot a potential hazard), I would surely appreciate the driver ahead warning me to get back in line. Beats being in a head-on, any day
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Old 11th May 2009, 16:28   #160
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Originally Posted by Blur View Post
I don't understand this POV. If I were pulling a potentially risky move (having failed to spot a potential hazard), I would surely appreciate the driver ahead warning me to get back in line. Beats being in a head-on, any day
I guess here we are talking about two things.
1. Should you advice the guy behind you using your indicators (not hand ... but indicators) where that guy can go
and
2. How to understand what other guy is trying to tell you
Being on the road, it is easy to guess (not easy to understand though) the other guy's intentions

However, it is dangerous to be a good guy if you indicate one way and the guy behind you understands in a different way!! Is it not?
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Old 11th May 2009, 16:48   #161
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Yes, very much... but indicators is not the way to do it.

Or shouldn't be.

As others have said, whatever the ideal may be, we still have to live with what people are doing in the real world. However, just because they give ambiguous signals doesn't mean we should too
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Old 11th May 2009, 18:39   #162
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Engine Braking as part of your normal reflexes is a very good tool, and should be used regularly. But it is also important that one uses the brake to along with it, just to signal the guy behind you.
Having said, i have never encountered a slowing car without tail lights on, which means most of the folks already use brake with or without engine braking.
Personally i am in love with engine braking, as it gives me ultimate braking prowess along with supreme car control with the help of drivetrain.
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Old 11th May 2009, 21:55   #163
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But it is also important that one uses the brake to along with it, just to signal the guy behind you.
That is an excellent point; one can even touch the brake pedal enough to illuminate the brake lights as a signal.

When not accelerating, the brake pedal is a good place for the right foot to be --- "covering the brake" is what one of my teachers called it.
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Old 11th May 2009, 22:13   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Every time you release the accelerator to slow down, you are using engine breaking.

Even if you use the breaks as well, engine breaking is the best way to control your car. Changing down and light breaking, is better than heavy breaking.
Thad, I suppose you are referring to 'braking' and 'brakes' wherever you've mentioned 'breaking' and 'breaks' respectively?
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Old 11th May 2009, 22:46   #165
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Yes... I seem to be having a nasty attack of brake/break disease <Blush>

It gets to the point where I no longer know which is which even when I think about it.
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