Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > Travelogues > Route / Travel Queries


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd June 2010, 03:12   #1
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tamil Nadu
Posts: 25
Thanked: 5 Times
Default Kanyakumari-Leh "Cannonball Run"-

Mod Note : Please continue the discussion on TSK1979's excellent Leh & Ladakh Guide at this link (Leh, Ladakh and Zanskar - The Ultimate Guide)



After this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...ideo-logs.html (Madurai-Manali-Madurai [8083Km 15 days 13 states] Solo Drive- ( photos,video & logs ))

I am planning to drive from Kanyakumari to Leh sometime in July. The road from manali-leh is closed now, although I suppose it will be open by then.

Like my previous trips where I asked team-bhp for advice and then did the travelogue and excel sheets, this would be the same.
As usual, I will be solo in the Safari Ex 4x4 with everything stock.

Here is the first draft of the plan:
Day 1: Kanyakumari-Pune 1500Km - 20 hours (sleep 4 hours)
Day 2: Pune-Delhi 1500Km - 20 hours (sleep 8 hours)
Day 3: Delhi-Manali-Keylong -700Km - 15 hours (sleep 5 hours) [or delhi-srinagar]
Day 4: (sleep 5 hours) Keylong-Leh -400Km 12 hours (stop) [or srinagar-leh] maybe hit kargil to reach the northernmost bit.

(all figures are approximate values)

Goal- Try to do it within 80 driving hours and 4 actual days. (sleep time includes everything-food, fuel and other breaks)

Questions:
1] What fuel additives do I need to add to diesel at high altitudes. How much quantity. Which brand to buy?
2] Are oxygen tanks required for fast ascent without acclimatization?
3] I am not sure how long it takes to drive after manali, since I haven't gone beyond that point. Are those estimated figures correct?
4] Can I drive through srinagar after I reach leh? Is a special permit required to enter srinagar?

What else am I missing here?
Most important question is, beyond 10,000ft, how fast can I ascend to 17,000+ ft? Has anyone experienced any physical issues? I am reasonably fit although I have not made too many high altitude ascents beyond 10,000ft.

Are any extra/other permits required? How dangerous is the situation there?
I would like it if someone could suggest alternate stops/ideas after manali. I have read other travelogues although I couldn't glean much off of them.

I am sure many people have done this before in far lesser time. I would certainly like to get some advice from the team-bhp gurus.

Again, thank you for everything. I would not be at this juncture if not for team-bhp.

Last edited by GTO : 31st May 2013 at 10:31. Reason: Link to Guide
NihilisticLogic is offline  
Old 22nd June 2010, 09:44   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: tiruchirapally
Posts: 65
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

hi. sorry buddy, but can you tell me what do u get other than the driving pleasure out of this trip in such a short time and by taking only 4 hrs sleep i think that ur putting urself and other motorists too at risk. yeah i know that u had done some drives earlier like this, but isnt it high time that u really start enjoying your travel?
just a small suggestion and nothing personal buddy!
Just relax and enjoy the beautiful wonders of our country as you travel
benzbala is offline  
Old 22nd June 2010, 12:57   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
hvkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,369
Thanked: 3,354 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilisticLogic View Post
No problem. You can stretch it to Bombay if possible. 8 hours from KK to Bangalore, 12 from there to Pune/Bombay


Quote:
Day 2: Pune-Delhi 1500Km - 20 hours (sleep 8 hours)
Difficult in current day conditions. Heavy traffic in Bombay-Vapi section, road widening and ensuing slow traffic in Jaipur-Delhi.

Quote:
Day 3: Delhi-Manali-Keylong -700Km - 15 hours (sleep 5 hours) [or delhi-srinagar]
Very very difficult. Delhi-Manali takes minimum 10-12 hours, road traffic frustrating, especially till Ambala. From Manali to Keylong will take at least 5 hours. Make sure that you do not cross Rohtang Pass on a day it is not open.

Quote:
Day 4: (sleep 5 hours) Keylong-Leh -400Km 12 hours (stop) [or srinagar-leh] maybe hit kargil to reach the northernmost bit.
Possible to reach Leh the same day, assuming no dislocation thanks to landslides. Kargil is another 6-8 hours away. IN any case, Kargil is not the northernmost point, it is either Hunder or Turtuk in Nubra Valley. You cannot cross Khardung la (to go to Nubra V from Leh) after 2 pm, so that is out of question.

(all figures are approximate values)


Quote:
1] What fuel additives do I need to add to diesel at high altitudes. How much quantity. Which brand to buy?
None, diesel sold in those places already comes with anti-freezants. NO need for any additive fuel.

Quote:
2] Are oxygen tanks required for fast ascent without acclimatization?
No, you should have no problem with acclimatisation since you are staying in Keylong (3000 m) on Night 1, and then move on to Leh on Night 2 (3500 m).

Quote:
3] I am not sure how long it takes to drive after manali, since I haven't gone beyond that point. Are those estimated figures correct?
Drive duration depends on road conditions. Manali-Keylong in idea conditions is 5-6 hours, with very early morning start.


Quote:
4] Can I drive through srinagar after I reach leh? Is a special permit required to enter srinagar?
Srinagar is a different route: Leh-Kargil-Dras-Sonmarg-Srinagar, and a very very long drive from Leh, you have to cross Zoji, which has time restrictions. No permits for Srinagar. But if you want to go to northernmost point (i.e. in NUbra V0, you need a permit, which is issued only on arrival during working hours in Leh.

Quote:
Most important question is, beyond 10,000ft, how fast can I ascend to 17,000+ ft? Has anyone experienced any physical issues? I am reasonably fit although I have not made too many high altitude ascents beyond 10,000ft.
If you stay in Keylong on Night 1, you may still have altitude problems because you are coming from Delhi; however, I think you will get away if you are on a anti-AMS high water intake/Diamox medication plan.

Quote:
Are any extra/other permits required? How dangerous is the situation there?
I would like it if someone could suggest alternate stops/ideas after manali. I have read other travelogues although I couldn't glean much off of them.
When you are coming from Delhi, getting beyond Manali itself is challenging, and your target for Keylong is going to be very difficult to achieve. You have places to stay at Manali, Khoksar, Keylong, Jispa & Darcha (beyond Keylong), Sarchu and Pang.
hvkumar is offline  
Old 22nd June 2010, 13:35   #4
MX6
Senior - BHPian
 
MX6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: City of seven islands.
Posts: 2,882
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

He can stretch to mumbai from kanyakumari in 20 hours provided he choses the time he crosses Pune properly. With rains and traffic chaos surrounding pune, it might be extremely frustrating to cross the Hinjewadi stretch.
Ideally, he should be crossing the Pune stretch by midnight, which would enable him to reach Mumbai / thane by 2 or 2:30 for a quick 4 - 5 hour sleep.
HVK has answered most of the queries.
But why go to Delhi? I remember that one can bypass delhi to go to Chandigarh. If Delhi is just a place for pitstop, you'd rather avoid it.
MX6 is offline  
Old 22nd June 2010, 13:41   #5
Senior - BHPian
 
hvkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,369
Thanked: 3,354 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MX6 View Post
He can stretch to mumbai from kanyakumari in 20 hours provided he choses the time he crosses Pune properly. With rains and traffic chaos surrounding pune, it might be extremely frustrating to cross the Hinjewadi stretch.
Ideally, he should be crossing the Pune stretch by midnight, which would enable him to reach Mumbai / thane by 2 or 2:30 for a quick 4 - 5 hour sleep.
HVK has answered most of the queries.
But why go to Delhi? I remember that one can bypass delhi to go to Chandigarh. If Delhi is just a place for pitstop, you'd rather avoid it.
The "short-cut" from Rewari via Rohtak to Panipat is not a great road, especially during teh rainy season. It is faster and safer to go via Delhi.

As MX6 says, you have to reorient the trip to make the most of faster night driving conditions. E.g. Leave KK in the evening, cross Bangalore before dawn, cross Pune before evening peak hour traffic and stop by somewhere before Bombay. Then you can cross Bombay late in the night (after a few hours sleep), arrive in Delhi region in the late evening.
hvkumar is offline  
Old 22nd June 2010, 13:58   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

Also remember, the Delhi-Manali section has lots of traffic, esp in July with tourist season in full swing.
From Delhi - Manali it takes 12 hours minimum.
Keylong takes another 9-10 because of heavy traffic at rohtang.

Ideally, if you have to reach keylong, its better to start from Delhi around noon(after long sleep), cross manali around 9pm, and reach keylong early morning.
you will miss traffic.
The entire day and night can be spent in keylong and it will help in acclimatization.
tsk1979 is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 04:46   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tamil Nadu
Posts: 25
Thanked: 5 Times
Default Thank you for the advice-

First, a big thank you to MX6, tsk1979 and especially to hvkumar for the extremely detailed reply.
I don't know how I could even dream of doing something like this without your expertise and encouragement.

I have taken into account all your suggestions and made an excel file which is attached with this post.

Some new questions in congruence with your updated advice:

3 questions specific to hvkumar's post:

1] "Make sure that you do not cross Rohtang Pass on a day it is not open."
- I thought they would have people/police halting vehicles from crossing if that is the case. Is it best to check at manali? If so, whom to ask, any phone numbers? I know of the website at leh.nic.in.

2]"IN any case, Kargil is not the northernmost point, it is either Hunder or Turtuk in Nubra Valley. You cannot cross Khardung la (to go to Nubra V from Leh) after 2 pm, so that is out of question."
- What is the route to Hunder? Is it through Khardung pass? What is this 2pm time limit? Can I start extremely early from leh and hope to cross before 2pm and come back after hitting hunder the same day or is it possible/necessary to stay in hunder?

3]"Srinagar is a different route: Leh-Kargil-Dras-Sonmarg-Srinagar, and a very very long drive from Leh, you have to cross Zoji, which has time restrictions. No permits for Srinagar. But if you want to go to northernmost point (i.e. in NUbra V0, you need a permit, which is issued only on arrival during working hours in Leh."
- What are the time restrictions for zoji la? I can't find them online.

More queries:

a] Do I need to get separate permits for Khardung Pass, Hunder and Zoji Pass from leh? From an office that is open from 10am to 2pm?
b] What is a good route to circuit all these places around leh, through the Nubra Valley and thereabouts? I am not one for much sightseeing but I would like to do a quick drive through.
c] Is half a day enough to see the sights around Srinagar? Besides the dal lake, is there any other place that is worth driving to?
d]Can Srinagar-Delhi can be done in 1 day(12 hours)?

I do not know how well this trial is going to work out but I plan to give it my best shot. Sorry for asking too many questions. I have indeed read up on the details as much as I can online, but I am finding it hard to get accurate details like I get directly from you.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx trip draft.xlsx (9.4 KB, 236 views)
NihilisticLogic is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 07:26   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
MileCruncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,992
Thanked: 356 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilisticLogic View Post
1] "Make sure that you do not cross Rohtang Pass on a day it is not open."
- I thought they would have people/police halting vehicles from crossing if that is the case. Is it best to check at manali? If so, whom to ask, any phone numbers? I know of the website at leh.nic.in.
Well what HVK meant was Rohtang even when is open has a weekly closure on Monday. Please find this out and plan your trip accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilisticLogic View Post
2]"IN any case, Kargil is not the northernmost point, it is either Hunder or Turtuk in Nubra Valley. You cannot cross Khardung la (to go to Nubra V from Leh) after 2 pm, so that is out of question."
- What is the route to Hunder? Is it through Khardung pass? What is this 2pm time limit? Can I start extremely early from leh and hope to cross before 2pm and come back after hitting hunder the same day or is it possible/necessary to stay in hunder?
You can go to Hunder and come back if start early from Leh but that is ging to a be a very hectic driving. From Leh to Khardungla Top is going to take only 1.5 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilisticLogic View Post
3]"Srinagar is a different route: Leh-Kargil-Dras-Sonmarg-Srinagar, and a very very long drive from Leh, you have to cross Zoji, which has time restrictions. No permits for Srinagar. But if you want to go to northernmost point (i.e. in NUbra V0, you need a permit, which is issued only on arrival during working hours in Leh."
- What are the time restrictions for zoji la? I can't find them online.

More queries:

a] Do I need to get separate permits for Khardung Pass, Hunder and Zoji Pass from leh? From an office that is open from 10am to 2pm?
b] What is a good route to circuit all these places around leh, through the Nubra Valley and thereabouts? I am not one for much sightseeing but I would like to do a quick drive through.
You will need permit for Khardung La and Hunder from Leh. Nubra is north of Leh whereas the Pangong Tso is south. You can do Leh - Hunder - Pangong Tso - Tso Moriri - Keylong - Manali. Other way round is not possible as you need as you need permits for all the places from Leh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilisticLogic View Post
c] Is half a day enough to see the sights around Srinagar? Besides the dal lake, is there any other place that is worth driving to?
d]Can Srinagar-Delhi can be done in 1 day(12 hours)?

I do not know how well this trial is going to work out but I plan to give it my best shot. Sorry for asking too many questions. I have indeed read up on the details as much as I can online, but I am finding it hard to get accurate details like I get directly from you.
Srinagar can be seen in 1/2 day if you don't want to visit the "Baghs". Srinagar Delhi is a 20 Hr run. Srinagar - Udhampur 6 to 7HOURS and Udhampur - Delhi (660 Kms) 12-13 Hrs.
MileCruncher is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 09:01   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
hvkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,369
Thanked: 3,354 Times
Default

MC, Rohtang Pass is closed on Tuesdays towards Keylong side. NL, plan in such a manner that you don't reach there on Tuesday.

The road to Hunder goes via South Pullu Check Post and Khardung la. At the Check Post, they observe timings to let people through. What I meant wa sthat if you leave from Keylong/Sarchu in the morning, reaching Hunder the same day is ruled out, unless you drive through in the night from Sarchu side. I agree with MC that Leh-Hunder-Leh can be quite hectic but is possible. More than the distance, the high-altitude driving causes tremendous fatigue.

Currently, Zoji la has time restrictions - traffic starts from Dras/Kargil side at 430 am, and from Sonmarg side at 830 am. However, these are time-of-the-season timings, depends on level of traffic and road condition, and is not sacrosanct. Cars are normally allowed through, but it can be terrible facing oncoming traffic in a 1-lane cliff road. Later in the season (e.g. Sep), trucks are allowed from Sonmarg side from 2 pm onwards which means if you are late at Sonmarg, you will be stuck behind hundreds of trucks struggling up Zoji la.

Permits are issued in the morning, not sure of the timings. Open only on govt. working days.
hvkumar is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 09:10   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
hvkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,369
Thanked: 3,354 Times
Default

I have added some comments in the attached file that you sent. My comments are highlighted in red.

My overall comment is that it is going to be a slog of a drive, and you can expect time overruns in Bombay-Surat and Jaipur-Delhi sections on Day 1 and 2. Another problem is that if you drive Manali-Keylong by day time, you will get clobbered by day-tripping traffic to Rohtang Pass, hence you have to plan in such a manner that you reach Manali by early morning (5 am) and continue to Keylong via Rohtang Pass (before the crowd arrives).
Attached Files
File Type: xls trip draft 1.2.xls (20.0 KB, 305 views)
hvkumar is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 10:50   #11
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

Rohtang Tuesday closure is from 9am to 6pm. Thats what the board says. If you start 5am from manali, you will be beyond rohtang well before 9am..
tsk1979 is offline  
Old 23rd June 2010, 13:10   #12
MX6
Senior - BHPian
 
MX6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: City of seven islands.
Posts: 2,882
Thanked: 210 Times
Default

And rohtang is known for heavy traffic. I got stuck there with my wife for 4 hours at a stretch.
So start as early as possible if on a tuesday.
But I'd go with HVK. Avoid traversing that on a tuesday altogether. If you get stuck, it's an extra day in Manali.
MX6 is offline  
Old 24th June 2010, 08:43   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tamil Nadu
Posts: 25
Thanked: 5 Times
Default Complete Restructuring-

Thank you for the reply MileCruncher. That cleared a lot of stuff I had in mind.

Also, when you say "You can do Leh - Hunder - Pangong Tso - Tso Moriri - Keylong - Manali.", do you mean:

Leh-Hunder-Leh-Pangong Tso-Tso Moriri

I searched for road maps of Nubra valley for a couple of hours yesterday, looked in my gps, google maps and even hand drawn ones, but I am not able to accurately get a road that directly connects Hunder to Pangong Tso bypassing Leh, if such a road exists.

I am not able to find the road from Pangong Tso- Tso Moriri- Keylong. Do I have to return the way I came or does a road connect Pangong Tso to Keylong?


hvkumar, thank you for the details on timings and distances. Your comments in the excel file has made me completely rethink the schedule.
I have come to the conclusion that I need to do Madurai-Srinagar-Leh slowly (6-7 days or so). Then get used to the altitude, get permits and finally, on my way back, do the speed run.
That way, the run can begin at Turtuk which, as you said, seems to be the Northernmost motorable point.

tsk1979 and MX6, thank you once again for the lowdown on specific timings and traffic.

I am not able to get the Km/distance readings on most of these places.

Here is my restructured draft ( I haven't done the excel sheet since I have no clue on where I could stay/how much I could cover)
Run Begins;
Day7or8: Turtuk-Tanksey?/Pangong Tso (whichever has better places for overnight stay) (MC said Hunder-Pangong Tso is possible? If so...bypass leh; making it Turtuk-Pangong Tso)
Day9: Pangong Tso-Keylong-Manali (possible in 1 day?)
Day10: Manali-Behror(via Delhi)
Day11:Behror-Mumbai
Day 12:Mumbai-Kanyakumari

I do not want to keep asking further questions and bumping this thread up. I think I will give it a break for now and only do a final set of queries and excel sheet a few days before I leave.

Thank you so much for taking efforts and the time out to answer. After this trip, I am planning to make a comprehensive guide of all the trips I have done so I can contribute something back.
NihilisticLogic is offline  
Old 24th June 2010, 10:33   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
hvkumar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 7,369
Thanked: 3,354 Times
Default

There are 2 ways to go direct from Nubra V to Pangong without coming back to Leh.

The first is via Wari la, which means returning on teh Leh road till a little after Khalasar, turnimng off and going via Agham to Sakti where you join the Leh-Karu-Sakti-Chang la-Durbuk-Pangong road. Wari la can be a tough crossing, depending on teh condition of the road. It will take you almost a full day to drive to Pangong from Desikit.

The second is the just-opened route from Agham (on the Wari la road) via Shayok direct to Durbuk (Leh-Karu-Chang la-Durbuk-Pangong road). This is a very tough route not meant for small cars yet.

Ideally, you should go to Turtuk and return to Hunder/Desikit since Turtuk has no stay facilities, besides it will increase your travel time to Pangong.

You can follow the route/distances for the Wari la sector in my log book from Sep 2009 trip:

LADAKH Sep 2009 - hvkumar | Google Groups

Pangong-Manali is a very very difficult drive for anyone. I would not suggest it for someone who is on such a long driving holiday, the high-altitude fatigue can hit you badly. Assuming you want to do it in one shot, leave early in the morning (5 am), and you should cross Sarchu by 5 pm (not easy), Keylong by 9 pm and be in Manali by 2 am, assuming fair weather and no dislocation thanks to landslides or repair work.

Bombay-Kanyakumari can be done in one shot.
hvkumar is offline  
Old 24th June 2010, 10:49   #15
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,646 Times
Default

I have recently mapped this direct route on OSM. Check out open street maps of the area for details.
tsk1979 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
Turtuk-Kanyakumari Solo Speed Run [9595Km] 12 days- NihilisticLogic Travelogues 37 12th August 2010 16:41
Cannonball run agentsmith Int'l Motorsport 4 6th November 2007 12:16
Gumball 3000 or Cannonball videos torqueunlimited Shifting gears 2 14th February 2006 04:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:32.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks