Automatic below 16 lakhs

[Vid6639]

The best engine and gearbox combo is the Altis AT with the 7 speed CVT-i. You get tip tronic as well.

FE is probably the best as well and the ride is very good in the Altis. The new G version makes more sense as you lose only leather, electric seats and xenons in terms of features.

Size wise it's actually just a shade more than the City.

Besides getting a Toyota you can never go wrong. Your at low risk here with girl friend and her dad.

[seedyk]

Originally Posted by vcash

I am surprised you found the Verna interiors cheap. I thought it was the best of the bunch with perforated leather seats, nice quality plastics and chunky switchgear.

Well, i wouln't exactly call them cheap, just that the look of the centre console is not to my liking.
BTW, i love the automatic gear knob, one of the best looking.

And why have you ruled out the vento ? i dont think it has reliability issues and the long time service would be quite easy on the pocket.

Moreover, i doubt if you would get a similar quality the germans offer in the japanese or the koreans. Do check it out before you make a decision.
For now, you can refer to the reviews of the vento on our forums.

[iliketurtles]

Noops' post quite below is a very accurate assessment of things, almost exactly what I'd say barring the recommendation of Skoda on account of spotty A.S.S.

Originally Posted by noopster

Get the Corolla Altis AT now available in lower G trim as well. But for sure more expensive than 14 lac on the road.

Honda City V AT with optional sunroof is also a cool and safe option.

If you can stretch your budget a bit get the Skoda Laura 2.0 Crdi DSG. Best gearbox in this class period.

Vento/ Rapid are petrol only and the engine lacks low end punch. Cruze AT is not that great from what I hear.

The City and Corolla are great options, particularly from the point of view of efficiency, comfort and ease of maintenance. That's something your GF's dad seems to like with a couple of Jap cars in his garage. So why recommend something else? Either the Honda or Toyota are great options, in all fairness.

Personally, I'd stretch my budget and go for the Laura. That diesel auto would be a boon in traffic and easy on the pocket. But it might be too flash for him and it will definitely not be cheap to maintain always, it is a European brand after all. Plus you can't recommend diesel for him since his running is limited and all that. The TSI Laura then becomes a great option, but for Skoda's *** concerns.

I digress. City; Corolla. Go for it, you can't go wrong really. Chauffeur driven, self driven, doesn't matter. Easy to run, easy to own, spacious, comfortable, the list goes on. Go for the Japs. Your GF's dad would surely agree with that wholeheartedly.

Edit: What about ze Civic? It gives all that you need and is a great car to own too. Consider it as an option, if it fits in the budget. But hey, if you can stretch the budget for the Corolla, do so for the Civic too. Totally worth it.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by vcash

Cars short listed
None Yet. But as far as I know the auto options in the given range would be:
1. Honda City
2. Hyundai Verna
3. Suzuki SX4
4. Ford Fiesta
5. VW Vento \ Skoda Rapid
6. Toyota Corolla
7. Chevy Cruze
8. Suzuki Dzire

Price range
On-road: 12L to 14L

Maintenance & After Sales Service (A.S.S.) expectations
Not too worried on this front but something that is light on the pocket to maintain in the long run would be a big plus since he is retired and would like to keep unexpected expenses down to a minimum.

Average distance traveled per month
<500kms

Where car will be mostly used (city / highway / rough roads etc)
City only. Specifically, South of the Sea Link so dense traffic but overall smooth roads.

Chauffer driven / self driven
80:20 split in favor of self driven

Any specific requirements from car (ex. Better luggage space, responsive engine, rear seat comfort)
1. Boot should be large enough to fit a golf bag.
2. Should have good ergonomics and ingress / egress. Higher seating would be a plus. He is older so it would be a big boon if the car is comfortable.
3. Spacious front seats - He is 6Ft 2 and has a wide frame. Supportive front seats and an airy cabin will be appreciated.

How long you intend on keeping this car (and how important resale is to you)
5 to 7 years. I think it's safe to say that AT + Petrol Pricing (Projected at Rs. 300 plus your first born) + Age of the car at time of disposal will lead to poor resale. So not really expecting anything.

I plan on driving some cars this weekend and then making my recommendation, but any feedback or suggestions would be much appreciated!

Cheers,
V

Given his requirements, and needs, I would actually suggest the Corolla as well. It is spacious, with higher seats than most cars, with good service backup, low running costs, and a large boot. Size wouldn't be a big bother, as anyone who travels around South Mumbai would know that the traffic out here is quite disciplined.
Next up, would be the Rapid/Vento A/T (assuming he cannot stretch for the Laura, which though best in class, will also be the most expensive to maintain should anything go wrong).
Follow this up with the Fiesta - which is just being mentioned here due to the DSG, good visibility, supportive seats (maybe overly supportive), and FTD characteristic.
The SX4 - everything said and done, it meets his requirements to the T - big boot, A/T, features, high seats, etc. Just doesn't have great interiors, an average ride, and no snob value.

The Honda City, and Cruze would be a little small for him, and the low seating doesn't help matters at all. Similarly, the Dzire with its small boot, lack of rear legroom, etc. would be a no-no as well. The Verna is also a little low, and doesn't boast of a great ride/handling combo.

[vcash]

Originally Posted by vb-san

My second suggestion is the Fiesta AT. It may be a bit funky for the age, but with a good front seat, dual clutch transmission, and added safety features like ESP, it’s worth doing a TD.

Will check out the Fiesta. It looks like it has a tall seating position too.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The best engine and gearbox combo is the Altis AT with the 7 speed CVT-i. You get tip tronic as well.

FE is probably the best as well and the ride is very good in the Altis. The new G version makes more sense as you lose only leather, electric seats and xenons in terms of features.

Size wise it's actually just a shade more than the City.

I am actually quite sold on the Altis. In fact I had a chat with him and he is open to Toyota as well.

Originally Posted by seedyk

And why have you ruled out the vento ? i dont think it has reliability issues and the long time service would be quite easy on the pocket.

Apart from speculating on reliability, I find the Vento very cramped and I am only 5'8".

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

Edit: What about ze Civic? It gives all that you need and is a great car to own too. Consider it as an option, if it fits in the budget. But hey, if you can stretch the budget for the Corolla, do so for the Civic too. Totally worth it.

It's too low for him. Also the model is being phased out this year, right? Unless the new one is around the corner and it rectifies the low ride height.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Given his requirements, and needs, I would actually suggest the Corolla as well. It is spacious, with higher seats than most cars, with good service backup, low running costs, and a large boot. Size wouldn't be a big bother, as anyone who travels around South Mumbai would know that the traffic out here is quite disciplined.

I agree. Was a little concerned with the size because he lives in a tight lane off Pedder and it can be a pain to park a larger car on the street. But as I said above, he is open to the Corolla (He owned the previous generation in 2003 before trading it in for the Accord).

He has also increased his budget to 15L. I am driving the cars on Saturday and will make a decision. Incidentally check out the pricing by Shinrai - How does a 14.4L for the G model go up to 16.3 Lakhs?!



By my calculation - I can get Insurance from ICICI at 35K, not pay them 3.5K for "Depot Charges", Opt out of the "TGA" package worth almost 9K and save 32.5K straight there. On top of it, I am going to get a breakup of the Registration & Service charges to see what other items are inflating the on-road price.

Why can't we have dealers who are happy making fair margins on sales \ spares? There would be no need for all this unpleasant negotiation. Ugh - Rant over.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by vcash

It's too low for him. Also the model is being phased out this year, right? Unless the new one is around the corner and it rectifies the low ride height.

Yup, word is that it just might be phased, but one can only speculate without ever being really sure. Still, if that (the new model looming imminently) is a concern, then the Civic should surely not be on the shortlist.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by vcash

I agree. Was a little concerned with the size because he lives in a tight lane off Pedder and it can be a pain to park a larger car on the street. But as I said above, he is open to the Corolla (He owned the previous generation in 2003 before trading it in for the Accord).

He has also increased his budget to 15L. I am driving the cars on Saturday and will make a decision. Incidentally check out the pricing by Shinrai - How does a 14.4L for the G model go up to 16.3 Lakhs?!

By my calculation - I can get Insurance from ICICI at 35K, not pay them 3.5K for "Depot Charges", Opt out of the "TGA" package worth almost 9K and save 32.5K straight there. On top of it, I am going to get a breakup of the Registration & Service charges to see what other items are inflating the on-road price.

Why can't we have dealers who are happy making fair margins on sales \ spares? There would be no need for all this unpleasant negotiation. Ugh - Rant over.

I think its mainly due to the RTO taxes. At least it isn't company registration!
Do find out what the RTO tax rate is, as it will be of a help to everyone here.
Also, call up some other dealers and get information from them as well. My experience with Shinrai hasn't been the best - still waiting for my 3M underbody coating warranty, some TGA not been given yet, and RC books taking awfully long!
The Corolla would be the best bet, unless you stretch for the Laura. Just get parking sensors, and it shouldn't be a big hassle. Know a few friends who stay on Pedder Road, and nearby - driving nice cars, without any parking complaints!
Alternately, he could always look at leasing out a spot nearby.

[vcash]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Know a few friends who stay on Pedder Road, and nearby - driving nice cars, without any parking complaints!
Alternately, he could always look at leasing out a spot nearby.

Already lease one spot and no more available. Street parking is the only option, I am afraid. There are several nice cars on the street in his lane (including a Panamera) but those usually have chauffers hanging around to help with the parking. And while his chauffer can park from time to time, he wants something small that he can park on his own. Anyway, we digress.

So this weekend, I drove the following:
1. Honda City V AT
2. VW Vento 1.6 Highline (AT)
3. Hyundai Verna VTVT SX 1.6 (O) AT
4. Toyota Corolla Altis 1.8G Automatic
5. Ford Fiesta 1.5P Titanium A\T
6. Skoda Laura Ambition 2.0 TDI AT

Here are my observations:
Honda City V AT: Solid engine and good gearbox. Above average quality. The safest bet in the sub 12L category. Body tends to bottom out on speed bumps and has very utilitarian interiors. Slightly low seating position and only one with no climate control. On road price post discounts:10.68L

VW Vento 1.6 Highline (AT): Solidly built car. Great pricing on the 2011 models and can get an optional touch screen navigation \ reverse camera to spruce up the spartan interiors. However, it has a cramped rear seat plus the worst mileage of the bunch. Also will be a 2011 model so would have been the stockyard for a few months (Basically an inventory clearence) - On road price post discounts: 9.61L

Hyundai Verna VTVT SX 1.6 (O) AT: This was my favorite as it is fully loaded and has a responsive mill. Great equipment levels and the best quality in the sub 12 Lakh bracket. However, it had a sluggish gearbox and nervous handling at high speeds with body roll and a disconnected steering. Cramped headroom amd slightly lower seating make for a slightly dissapointing cabin experience. On road price sans any discounts: 11.41L

Toyota Corolla Altis 1.8G Automatic: Toyota Quality is impeccable. Most comfortable to get in and out off and to sit in. Decent equipment levels too. But honestly, I think it is way overpriced for what it offers over the other options. Can't recommend this one as it is ~50% more than the City! On road price post discounts: 15.65L

Ford Fiesta 1.5P Titanium A\T: Best Gear Box amongst the petrol options. Lovely European build but unfortunatley let down by cramped interiors and odd styling. The engine feels a bit sluggish as well. On road price post discounts: 11.27L

Skoda Laura Ambition 2.0 TDI CR AT: Superb gearbox and stonker of a diesel engine. Considerable savings in fuel over petrol and has the largest boot space. BUT Skoda after sales and service is not the best. If anything goes wrong, very expensive to repair when out of warranty. Very Expensive too and his running does not warrnt a diesel. On road price post discounts: 16.82L

So at the end of all of this, I was confused as ever and decided to create a small excel model, where I compared quantitative and qualitative specifications and ranked the cars across the following parameters using these weighting:

1. Exterior Dimensions (How important is it that the car is small on the outside and easy to drive and park in traffic?) - 15.0%
2. Interior Space (How important is it that the car is large on the inside?) - 15.0%
3. Engine and Gearbox (How important is power and smoothness of gear changes to you?) - 5.0%
4. Ground Clearance (How important is ride height to you?) - 5.0%
5. Fuel Economy (How important is reasonable mileage?) - 5.0%
6. Resale Potential (How important is it to get a good price while selling the car?) - 5.0%
7. Cost of the Car (How important is the initial capital outlay?) 30.0%
8. Qualitative Feedback (How did the car feel overall?) 20.0%

The top 3 choices after the calculation in order of ranking:
1. Honda City V AT
2. VW Vento 1.6 Highline (AT)
3. Hyundai Verna VTVT SX 1.6 (O) AT

While I know that some of you may frown upon using mathematics and logic in arriving at a conclusion, since the passion componenet is taken out of the decision making process (Having owned a Palio 1.6 GTX, I should curse myself for looking at this so calculatingly!), I am afraid that this will be an appliance and I want to make the best recommendation possible.

So, I am getting the 3 cars for him and letting him select the one he feels most comfortable in. That is unless anyone can pursuade me otherwise

Will let you folks know how it turns out.

Cheers,
V

[noopster]

Originally Posted by vcash

The top 3 choices after the calculation in order of ranking:
1. Honda City V AT
2. VW Vento 1.6 Highline (AT)
3. Hyundai Verna VTVT SX 1.6 (O) AT

While I know that some of you may frown upon using mathematics and logic in arriving at a conclusion, since the passion componenet is taken out of the decision making process (Having owned a Palio 1.6 GTX, I should curse myself for looking at this so calculatingly!), I am afraid that this will be an appliance and I want to make the best recommendation possible.

Cheers,
V

Not at all. In fact, that has to be the most comprehensive AT comparo onthe forums in recent memory. Hats off !!

Am happy that my Vento made it to your top 3 and feeling a little bad that I didn't reccomend it to you right away Had just assumed automaticaly that the AT price had increased as it had with the TDI (they were almost identically priced when I bought it). But given the price difference between the Vento & City on one hand and the Verna & Fiesta on the other, it's a no-brainer.

For City vs Vento, test drive both and go with your heart. Some of us, self included, value the build quality that only Germans can conjure, others prefer the sweet VTEC engine of the Honda. Some of us like the flashiness of the arrowhead City shape, some prefer the classic understated Teutonic looks. It's a close fight, and everybody wins!

Good luck.

[lamborghini]

I would push for the Vento.
When he drives, the space would be adequate - however, he would have to adjust the seat as if not done properly, the steering will foul, and if he is driven around, a simple push to the front passenger seat and he should have about enough space to relax. Throw in the better ride, better seating comfort, peace of mind over bad roads, he will be a happy camper.
Biggest plus is better interior quality. My friend's city with 20Kkm of usage, has aged very poorly compared to another's Vento.
Plus at the price you are getting it for, coupled with extended warranty, it should cover the difference in fuel as well as higher maintenance of the VW - do keep in mind that if anything does go wrong in either, spares are expensive for both! Its just that the Honda should be more reliable.

The Verna has a very poor back seat, so I would give it a break. Instead, throw in the Corolla. It might be more expensive, but has better kit, a better engine, better interiors, more space, and is better suited for our road conditions compared to the City. In fact, it is a whole class bigger, and technically speaking better VFM than his Accord too

[Turbo_Charger]

Am in the same boat as the Thread Starter and have been looking for a decent Automatic car in the 10L variant. Have checked out Fiesta, City & Vento.

The Fiesta's interiors rival the swift (no offense to anyone) and it just feels a size smaller than the City and Vento. True, it has all the gizmos and everything but even the interior quality leaves a lot to be desired.

The City is the most spartan kitted car among the 3. Does not even have Auto AC. Although the space and interior quality are quite good when compared to Fiesta.

The Vento 2012 TDi I checked felt the most luxurious of the 3 from in the inside. It had Beige + Brown Interiors. VW is also offering IPL II kit with Highline Models. There's confusion if the Highline Auto is included or not (People from the same dealership gave contradicting answers). There are mouth watering deals on the 2011 Edition but don't think they have Steering Controls which is not a necessity.

My only concern about the Vento is :

1. Is the Low mileage of Vento really what it's made out to be ? Even if it has the worst mileage, how does it compare to Fiesta and City ? Vento can partially compensate the low mileage with the lower acquisition cost so am flexible in that regard.

My guess is that all of them can run 11-12 kilometers to a liter in the city. Hope am correct.

I don't worry that much about "Kitna Deti Hai" but in times of 70 bucks a litre, if there's a significant difference, you can't blame me


2. Can the Audio System be upgraded from VW to have Bluetooth/Navigation/Reverse Camera in the 2011 Vento ?

Am asking because the Sales Personal was claiming that 2012 Vento even has Bluetooth by showing me the dummy call button on the steering.


My current favorite is Vento, let's see how it goes.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Charger

Am in the same boat as the Thread Starter and have been looking for a decent Automatic car in the 10L variant. Have checked out Fiesta, City & Vento.

The Fiesta's interiors rival the swift (no offense to anyone) and it just feels a size smaller than the City and Vento. True, it has all the gizmos and everything but even the interior quality leaves a lot to be desired.

The City is the most spartan kitted car among the 3. Does not even have Auto AC. Although the space and interior quality are quite good when compared to Fiesta.

The Vento 2012 TDi I checked felt the most luxurious of the 3 from in the inside. It had Beige + Brown Interiors. VW is also offering IPL II kit with Highline Models. There's confusion if the Highline Auto is included or not (People from the same dealership gave contradicting answers). There are mouth watering deals on the 2011 Edition but don't think they have Steering Controls which is not a necessity.

My only concern about the Vento is :

1. Is the Low mileage of Vento really what it's made out to be ? Even if it has the worst mileage, how does it compare to Fiesta and City ? Vento can partially compensate the low mileage with the lower acquisition cost so am flexible in that regard.

My guess is that all of them can run 11-12 kilometers to a liter in the city. Hope am correct.

I don't worry that much about "Kitna Deti Hai" but in times of 70 bucks a litre, if there's a significant difference, you can't blame me


2. Can the Audio System be upgraded from VW to have Bluetooth/Navigation/Reverse Camera in the 2011 Vento ?

Am asking because the Sales Personal was claiming that 2012 Vento even has Bluetooth by showing me the dummy call button on the steering.


My current favorite is Vento, let's see how it goes.

As a driver, nothing would come close to the Fiesta for its handling. Even the DSG gearbox is superb! However, it has no tiptronic mode, and for spirited driving, you would have to use 'L' mode. I would expect this and the city to be amongst the more FE, and if you an enthusiastic driver, I would urge you to have a look at the car once again.
Personally, though the feel of the dashboard is a segment lower, it felt quite solid and long lasting - compared to a friend's city which had some interior parts coming loose.

The Vento on the other hand has a better ride, good handling (though the fiesta has the edge here). I would rate it as a step above the City with regards to comfort, handling, interiors, and practicality - though the City should be more reliable. If the fiesta is out, I would recommend the Vento, even though the FE might be a little on the lower side.
A lot of Polo users have switched their HU to a Witson one from China - which requires no cutting of wires, is touch screen, has GPS. You can check it out on the Polo threads.
Alternately, the VW Dealer in Mumbai was charging 50K to switch over to the Caska unit (or the IPL one) which would have some of the features you require.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Charger

The Fiesta's interiors rival the swift (no offense to anyone) and it just feels a size smaller than the City and Vento. True, it has all the gizmos and everything but even the interior quality leaves a lot to be desired.

I got a chance to test drive the Fiesta this previous weekend, and I really liked it. Yes, the interiors seem a bit spartan and space at the back is a bit less compared to the City/Vento, but it comes with tons of gizmos and will be a joy to drive. I think that will offset the interior/space issue for many.

Noops will be well placed to answer any and every thing Vento-related, but here's my 2 cents nonetheless

Originally Posted by Turbo_Charger

1. Is the Low mileage of Vento really what it's made out to be ? Even if it has the worst mileage, how does it compare to Fiesta and City ? Vento can partially compensate the low mileage with the lower acquisition cost so am flexible in that regard.

My guess is that all of them can run 11-12 kilometers to a liter in the city. Hope am correct.

I don't worry that much about "Kitna Deti Hai" but in times of 70 bucks a litre, if there's a significant difference, you can't blame me

The Vento and City don't have that much to choose between them. Both will return approx8 KMPL in stop-start traffic with or without the A/C with some heavy-footed driving. I get about 11-13 KMPL on the City while Noops reports about 11-12 on the Vento, so really, there's nothing to choose there. I get 18-20 on the highway at steady speeds of 80-100 KMPH, and I don't think the Vento is really far off that. Honestly, there isn't much to choose on that front.

So yes, these two will definitely do 11-12 in the City, although I suspect the Fiesta might do (marginally) better if driven sedately in the same traffic conditions on the same route, thanks to it's dual clutch tranny.

Originally Posted by Turbo_Charger

2. Can the Audio System be upgraded from VW to have Bluetooth/Navigation/Reverse Camera in the 2011 Vento ?

Am asking because the Sales Personal was claiming that 2012 Vento even has Bluetooth by showing me the dummy call button on the steering.

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I think it was subodh or anilkalvani (don't remember the username well) who added a CASKA to his Vento. It then did most of that stuff, barring perhaps bluetooth calling. Check out their Vento ownership threads. I'm sure it's possible.

[ra'ul M]

Originally Posted by vcash

The top 3 choices after the calculation in order of ranking:
1. Honda City V AT
2. VW Vento 1.6 Highline (AT)
3. Hyundai Verna VTVT SX 1.6 (O) AT

While I know that some of you may frown upon using mathematics and logic in arriving at a conclusion, since the passion componenet is taken out of the decision making process (Having owned a Palio 1.6 GTX, I should curse myself for looking at this so calculatingly!), I am afraid that this will be an appliance and I want to make the best recommendation possible.

So, I am getting the 3 cars for him and letting him select the one he feels most comfortable in. That is unless anyone can pursuade me otherwise

Will let you folks know how it turns out.

Cheers,
V

Hi,
We were in a similar position some time back and ended up with the City AT. The clinching factor was the seating comfort. The Vento is cramped compared to the City.
My brothers and I are all 6 feet plus and found it to be the most comfortable of the lot, especially the shoulder and headroom.
It's not as solid as the Vento, but you don't really need that tank like build for day to day city use. The light, flickable nature of the City would ensure a stress free drive as well.

Also, you might need to look into the A.S.S. of VW in your city. It is more suspect than Honda in most cases.

Cheers!

[vcash]

Hello Folks,
Just wanted to update everyone that the Verna has been selected. He felt that it was the more comfortable of the bunch to drive and that is what clinched it in the end.

Unfortunatley because of some delays, I could not locate any pre-excise priced cars and we will need to place a new order. This translates to a 3 week wait and an OTR price of roughly 11.8L - That's a ~40K increase in barely 2 weeks all thanks to the new excise structure and the pending state tax increases!