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Old 26th June 2011, 15:41   #31
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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That is true. An SUV is vastly easier to "drive" in the city because people just give away when they see a hulk looming up in their RVMs (assuming they have 'em). I distinctly remember how I felt like Moses parting the Sea when driving a Safari in crowded Bengaluru.

It's a different issue when it comes to parking or taking quick U-turns.

On the length issue: While you're true that width matters more in terms of navigating thick city traffic, a vehicle too long leaves with you little safety margin when overtaking heavy (read: high-momentum and can't brake fast enough) vehicles from the slow lane. Why are such moves even necessary? Think of a situation where there's an auto-rickshaw/tempo or another truck in the slow lane. One vehicle type can't move (truck), the other won't (auto/tempo) and you'll be stuck behind them forever. I found this vastly easier to do in my old puny 800 than with my current Civic, despite the significant power advantage.



The running costs would be pretty high given where petrol prices are. I don't know if that's a concern. Probably isn't, considering you're open to getting an RS!

EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but increasingly I think the DSG-equipped Lauras seem the best bet given your needs. If only something like the Civic Type-R or Octy vRS was around...

If you're OK with buying used, you'll get a *good* used Civic for a song. Warranty is no longer a concern. Soup 'er up with them Koni FSDs (takes care of soft suspension and scrapes), throw in exhaust and air intake mods (takes care of low-end grunt) and an ICE of your choice and you've got pretty much the perfect car. At the end of it all, you'll be left with enough cash to do it all over again!

Regards,
spadix
The petrol prices and poor FE of the Outlander are what scares me. I just came back from a TD of one, and though I enjoyed driving it, there were a few negatives. Firstly, the interiors felt a little bit worn out and didn't look very appealing. They seemed to age fast, and inputs from other outlander owners would be appreciated. Secondly the CVT gearbox and performance didn't feel up to the mark. I was expecting more it seems. However, I loved the driving position and feel of the car and it is there on the shortlist, though it could be kicked out soon. A rough calculation shows that I would spend 6K extra on fuel every month given the current difference between petrol and diesel prices. Convert that into EMI, and that is how much I would pay for a 3L loan for 5 years, and if I add the 6K and a little bit more to the EMI I would pay for the Outlander, I can get an Audi A4 2.0TDi.

About the length of the car, I get your point. However, I rarely indulge in such moves that could be risky. I enjoy driving fast when I can and the road allows me to, but I am not one to zig-zag around. After driving the E60 5 series, and W211 E Class for a while, I didn't mind the length as much as I minded the additional width. Even parking and u-turns are not much of an issue for me, as more often than not I have a driver present in the car whose job is to simply park the car, and ensure its safety, and most of the places I visit have a safe and big parking spot, be it my home/office/friends places/majority of restaurants. Times when I have had issues with parking and u-turns have been very few.

The fiesta's width and length combination coupled with its excellent visibility, crisp handling, and responsive engine is what endeared me to it so much, and is what I am looking for in a new car. In fact, I am so close to just getting a Fiesta SXi 1.6, it isn't funny. However, a lot of people don't understand that and want me to upgrade, rubbishing my talks of another fiesta.

As for the idea of a pre-owned car, I am getting increasingly tempted by a used Civic with some mods. I found one 2010 version done 13Kkm with an asking price of 10L. Is it worth it?
The shortlist as of now reads as:
- Outlander
- Laura 1.8 TSi Classic with mods/stock 2.0 DSG Elegance/L&K (as the additional 4 airbags make no sense to me simply due to the fact that I can't control who might sit in the car and not wear their seat belts when I am not around, and airbags without seat belts are a big NO-NO, even for those in the rear seat. 2 airbags or 4 airbags would be ideal for the front seat occupants who are always buckled up, but the remaining 2 airbags for the rear passengers poses more of a risk than a safety device IMO. Correct me if I am wrong.) The vRS at 22-23L would be very expensive to run, due to high price. However, the TSi at 14.5L would save me 4L over a diesel DSG and that would cover the additional fuel costs and then some.
- Pre-owned Civic with mods, but after a Test Drive on the roads I travel on.
- A Fiesta 1.6 Classic SXi (if all else fails)
- Audi A4 2.0TDi - As I mentioned earlier, a little bit more and I can get the Audi over the Outlander, thanks to the superb 4L discount the dealership is offering. However, I am not at the right stage of my life to drive such an expensive car, and I know that I would leave it parked in the garage and opt for a cheaper car when going out to a few places. This is just there as a fun option, after all, a test drive is free

Last edited by lamborghini : 26th June 2011 at 15:43.
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Old 26th June 2011, 16:02   #32
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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As for the idea of a pre-owned car, I am getting increasingly tempted by a used Civic with some mods. I found one 2010 version done 13Kkm with an asking price of 10L. Is it worth it?
If it's in excellent condition, it's worth considering. I think 10l is about par for a 2010 Civic (assuming it's a stock V M/T) that has done ~13-15k kms, unless it's been knocked/dented and not serviced regularly.

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The shortlist as of now reads as:
- Outlander
- Laura 1.8 TSi Classic with mods/stock 2.0 DSG Elegance/L&K
- Pre-owned Civic with mods, but after a Test Drive on the roads I travel on.
- A Fiesta 1.6 Classic SXi (if all else fails)
- Audi A4 2.0TDi
I forgot mentioning this in my previous post, but a *new* Cedia (~10-11 lacs OTR) followed with mods could be an option. Or if warranty is an issue, a used Cedia which you can mod later. It's a brilliant handler, isn't it? And it doesn't have the suspension/GC issues the Civic has in stock form. All you need to worry about is the power/torque. Even a used RS for that matter. I mean, if you're open to considering pre-worshipped cars, let's have all options on the table . A cousin picked up one last year here from a trusted source for around 6 lacs. It had done around 35k kms. Once the new RS comes in many would probably trade in their older RS', methinks.

You're right about the safety aspects of overtaking of the kind I mentioned. Just wanted to point out what I observed with the Civic vis-a-vis a much shorter car.

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spadix
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Old 26th June 2011, 17:29   #33
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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Originally Posted by spadix View Post
If it's in excellent condition, it's worth considering. I think 10l is about par for a 2010 Civic (assuming it's a stock V M/T) that has done ~13-15k kms, unless it's been knocked/dented and not serviced regularly.



I forgot mentioning this in my previous post, but a *new* Cedia (~10-11 lacs OTR) followed with mods could be an option. Or if warranty is an issue, a used Cedia which you can mod later. It's a brilliant handler, isn't it? And it doesn't have the suspension/GC issues the Civic has in stock form. All you need to worry about is the power/torque. Even a used RS for that matter. I mean, if you're open to considering pre-worshipped cars, let's have all options on the table . A cousin picked up one last year here from a trusted source for around 6 lacs. It had done around 35k kms. Once the new RS comes in many would probably trade in their older RS', methinks.

You're right about the safety aspects of overtaking of the kind I mentioned. Just wanted to point out what I observed with the Civic vis-a-vis a much shorter car.

Regards,
spadix
Hey spadix,

Thanks for your reply.
A used Octavia RS would be too old for my liking. Ideally I would like a 1 year old car at the most as we want to keep it for a good 6-8 years.
Warranty concerns are valid, and hence I am willing to pay a slightly higher amount for some accessories provided they are provided by the dealer and do not affect my warranty. That is the case with the Laura TSi.
The Civic is something I shall look at, but the low GC and low ingress coupled with poor visibility are disheartening. However, it is on the shortlist and shall be considered.
I personally found the Cedia to be too dated for my liking, and it would still be an option if it weren't for the recent updates they carried out by changing the interior color scheme and replacing the ICE with something more basic. However, I shall give the dealer a call and see what the price looks like. If it is a difference of 1-2L between this and the Laura, I would still get the Laura for the superior power and feel it offers, even though it may not be as well equipped (leather seats and climate control ac). If I do get a good deal, I shall definitely book a TD.

After a talk with my dad, the Outlander is out, as is the A4. Just got off the line with the dealer and the price is around 33L for a 1.8TFSi A4 after discounts. At that price, I would prefer dad increasing his budget after a while and getting himself an A6 2.0TDi once it comes out in August (according to the dealer), as that is a car he really wants and 2.0TDi would do justice for a primarily chauffeur driven car.

So as of now, the list stands as:
- Cedia
- Laura TSi (we skipped the TDi. With diesel prices on the rise as well in the long run, it won't make much of a difference, and 4L is too much to pay for an auto gearbox and diesel - what say guys? Akshay?)
- Fiesta Classic 1.6 SXi
- Pre-owned Civic V M/T

Hope I am making some sense, as I am very very confused myself!

Edit: There is a 3L difference between the Cedia and the Laura TSi. Both have similar levels of equipment, with the Laura coming with Projector HL and a better engine and interiors. The Cedia on the other hand just has ACC and alloys, but the engine isn't as impressive. Should I still look into it? Would it have the feel good factor of the Laura?
I wouldn't be asking this question if I was going pre-owned, but new?

Last edited by lamborghini : 26th June 2011 at 17:40.
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Old 26th June 2011, 18:02   #34
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

If you can get a nice big discount, I think the current Jetta is in many ways better than the upcoming one which has the new VW breadbox look. As far as I can tell it does not have any new innovations.
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Old 26th June 2011, 18:39   #35
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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The fiesta's width and length combination coupled with its excellent visibility, crisp handling, and responsive engine is what endeared me to it so much, and is what I am looking for in a new car. In fact, I am so close to just getting a Fiesta SXi 1.6, it isn't funny. However, a lot of people don't understand that and want me to upgrade, rubbishing my talks of another fiesta.
The Fiesta Classic SXI is not available yet, and Harpreet Ford says it could easily be 45-60 days away. The Fiesta Petrol engine is very responsive. I did see your earlier post where you felt your existing Ford engine was underpowered? If that is your concern, it may be time to try something more powerful.
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Old 26th June 2011, 19:18   #36
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Originally Posted by lamborghini
With diesel prices on the rise as well in the long run, it won't make much of a difference, and 4L is too much to pay for an auto gearbox and diesel - what say guys?

Edit: There is a 3L difference between the Cedia and the Laura TSi. Both have similar levels of equipment, with the Laura coming with Projector HL and a better engine and interiors. The Cedia on the other hand just has ACC and alloys, but the engine isn't as impressive. Should I still look into it? Would it have the feel good factor of the Laura?
I wouldn't be asking this question if I was going pre-owned, but new?
If the difference is only 3L OTR (surprise to me!) stick with the TSi especially as you say the interiors and ICE of the Cedia have been toned down and that Skoda dealers are willing to accessorise you up while preserving the warranty.

You make a good point about staying off older designs on used cars.

In stock form it's only the Laura and Cruze AT which come closest to your needs. The Jetta in a pinch. The new vRS is anyway ruled out per your current list. Is the DSG available *only* in the L&K diesel? I haven't looked at the spec sheets lately. After 60 kms of peak-evening in-city driving on a Saturday (worst day of the week traffic-wise) my left foot is crying out loud for an auto-box in my next car.

By the way the government is currently subsidising diesel onto to the tune of INR 6.5 per litre. It doesn't look like diesel prices will rise to petrol levels in the short-to-medium term. To top that you have diesel's inherent better FE (comparing same-capacity engines in the same cars). Don't rule out that TDi just yet!

Regards,
spadix
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Old 26th June 2011, 19:39   #37
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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If the difference is only 3L OTR (surprise to me!) stick with the TSi especially as you say the interiors and ICE of the Cedia have been toned down and that Skoda dealers are willing to accessorise you up while preserving the warranty.

You make a good point about staying off older designs on used cars.

In stock form it's only the Laura and Cruze AT which come closest to your needs. The Jetta in a pinch. The new vRS is anyway ruled out per your current list. Is the DSG available *only* in the L&K diesel? I haven't looked at the spec sheets lately. After 60 kms of peak-evening in-city driving on a Saturday (worst day of the week traffic-wise) my left foot is crying out loud for an auto-box in my next car.

By the way the government is currently subsidising diesel onto to the tune of INR 6.5 per litre. It doesn't look like diesel prices will rise to petrol levels in the short-to-medium term. To top that you have diesel's inherent better FE (comparing same-capacity engines in the same cars). Don't rule out that TDi just yet!

Regards,
spadix
The DSG is available in Ambiente as well. But either ways, the minimum price difference is 4L, and if we convert that into a loan for 5 years, it works out to a difference of Rs. 8,000 a month. According to my calculations, at the current difference between petrol and diesel, the difference in my bill should be Rs. 4,000. Even if I look at it the other way, the auto box deserves a premium of Rs. 1L, and the resale value would fetch me 50K extra for a diesel. However, I would still be paying Rs. 2.5L extra, which at the current difference in fuel prices would allow me to drive 80,000kms before I break even. In comparison, our 04 E270 has only been driven 60Kkm, our 07 Octavia a meagre 33Kkm. The Fiesta did 80Kkm in a matter of 5 years but that was with me travelling 50km a day for the first year, and then home, office and guest use for the rest of the time. I expect my daily running to be 25km.
Nevertheless, I have asked my friend to take me for a drive in his Laura Ambiente TDi, and the dealer will bring the 1.8TSi Classic for me to drive. Once I have driven both, I will make up my mind as more than a few laks here or there, I am concerned about the everyday performance of the car. While I really want the TSi, there is a little voice inside my head egging me to get the Elegance TDi which comes with 16" alloys and leather.

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Originally Posted by raj_srini View Post
The Fiesta Classic SXI is not available yet, and Harpreet Ford says it could easily be 45-60 days away. The Fiesta Petrol engine is very responsive. I did see your earlier post where you felt your existing Ford engine was underpowered? If that is your concern, it may be time to try something more powerful.
The dealer here gave me a quote of 9,26,000 for the SXi OTR Company registration with octroi. Do check with another dealer.
While I don't feel it is underpowered per say, there is no doubt that it does run out of steam. The 1.6 petrol however is another beast all together.

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
If you can get a nice big discount, I think the current Jetta is in many ways better than the upcoming one which has the new VW breadbox look. As far as I can tell it does not have any new innovations.
I will check it out, but I am not a big fan of the design. Love the interiors though. I believe it doesn't come with an A/T and has the 110bhp engine in it. However, I shall call the dealer and see if I get a good discount and put it on the consideration list.
Tomorrows TD's include:
- Audi A4 1.8 TFSi
- Skoda Laura TSi and TDi

Thanks once again guys, and keep the suggestions pouring in!
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Old 26th June 2011, 19:43   #38
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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So as of now, the list stands as:
- Cedia
- Laura TSi (we skipped the TDi. With diesel prices on the rise as well in the long run, it won't make much of a difference, and 4L is too much to pay for an auto gearbox and diesel - what say guys? Akshay?)
- Fiesta Classic 1.6 SXi
- Pre-owned Civic V M/T

Hope I am making some sense, as I am very very confused myself!
Out of the list mentioned here, I feel Laura TSI is the option to go for, followed by the pre-owned Civic.

On a separate note, any reason for not considering the new Fiesta. There is some negative publicity on the 1.5 v/s old 1.6 engine, but it may not be a bad idea to do a TD.
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Old 26th June 2011, 20:00   #39
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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I will check it out, but I am not a big fan of the design. Love the interiors though. I believe it doesn't come with an A/T and has the 110bhp engine in it. However, I shall call the dealer and see if I get a good discount and put it on the consideration list.
I think they switched over to the 140 bhp 2-lt engine after BS4 came into effect.
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Old 26th June 2011, 20:01   #40
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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So as of now, the list stands as:
- Cedia
- Laura TSi (we skipped the TDi. With diesel prices on the rise as well in the long run, it won't make much of a difference, and 4L is too much to pay for an auto gearbox and diesel - what say guys? Akshay?)
- Fiesta Classic 1.6 SXi
- Pre-owned Civic V M/T

Hope I am making some sense, as I am very very confused myself!
Good you left out the A4 (2.0tdi is not exactly quick, and the 1.8t is a not worth it IMO.)

Cedia is just too dated, good or not good.

Bro you have the budget, why are you looking at the Fiesta and a pre-owned Civic.

Frankly since you will keep this car for a few years and will drive it yourself. I'm still suggesting you get an a/t, will make a big difference with the kind of traffic we have here. Take the Laura DSG for a spin, and only then cross it off.
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Old 26th June 2011, 23:51   #41
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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Good you left out the A4 (2.0tdi is not exactly quick, and the 1.8t is a not worth it IMO.)

Cedia is just too dated, good or not good.

Bro you have the budget, why are you looking at the Fiesta and a pre-owned Civic.

Frankly since you will keep this car for a few years and will drive it yourself. I'm still suggesting you get an a/t, will make a big difference with the kind of traffic we have here. Take the Laura DSG for a spin, and only then cross it off.
The more I thought about it, the more the L&K makes sense. Your inputs are a big factor in this as well! Thanks a lot man!
The reason I was looking at the Fiesta was because it seems like the perfect city car, and if all else fails, this would be it.

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I think they switched over to the 140 bhp 2-lt engine after BS4 came into effect.
According to their website, it is still the 110BHP variant. However, will give them a call and arrange for a TD if I get a good deal. The looks are so-so, but according to the T-BHP reviews the handling is superb as is the equipment levels. However, there is no A/T as well.

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Out of the list mentioned here, I feel Laura TSI is the option to go for, followed by the pre-owned Civic.

On a separate note, any reason for not considering the new Fiesta. There is some negative publicity on the 1.5 v/s old 1.6 engine, but it may not be a bad idea to do a TD.
The new Fiesta isn't being concerned because it looks quirky, and as a drivers car, the old fiesta with its more responsive engine and hydraulic P.S. still beats it hollow. Maybe if the hatch were out, things would be different.
As of now, the standings look like this:
- Laura L&K (actually sounding like VFM!)
- Laura TSi
- VW Jetta
- Fiesta 1.6
- Audi A4 (Test drive tomorrow, but doesn't sound as exciting. Will most likely be dropped).
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Old 27th June 2011, 00:21   #42
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Default Re: Replacement for the Fiesta TDCi

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I think they switched over to the 140 bhp 2-lt engine after BS4 came into effect.
The current Jetta comes only with the 2.0 SOHC 110hp 250nm Common Rail TDi. There is no DSG option.
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Old 27th June 2011, 00:40   #43
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The current Jetta comes only with the 2.0 SOHC 110hp 250nm Common Rail TDi. There is no DSG option.
OK, this is same engine as the facelift Laura M/T but not the old PD engine. Correct?
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Old 27th June 2011, 00:42   #44
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OK, this is same engine as the facelift Laura M/T but not the old PD engine. Correct?
Yes this is same engine as Laura MT. Very nice Engine with Zero lag, starts making 250nm from as low as 1500rpm.
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Old 27th June 2011, 08:37   #45
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The dealer here gave me a quote of 9,26,000 for the SXi OTR Company registration with octroi. Do check with another dealer.
While I don't feel it is underpowered per say, there is no doubt that it does run out of steam. The 1.6 petrol however is another beast all together.
Checked with another dealer (Delhi Ford, Vasant Kunj). They don't have it on the price list yet and no date commitments from Ford as well. What delivery period is the dealer quoting you for SXi? I'm assuming you are referring to the Diesel version?
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