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Old 30th July 2012, 21:35   #106
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Hi everybody,
Now that Hyundai Elantra is going to be launched, anybody thinks it will be good to wait for few months more to see how it runs in real life and also hoping Skoda may put out a new Laura considering the fact that its time for a facelift for same? Some test drive reports for Elantra were positive regarding interior and drive quality. Also worth considering in its favour will be wider availability of service network. I think postponing my D1 sedan buy (right now VW and Skoda Laura both in diesel are serious contenders with Fluence waiting to be interviewed in person) for next year will be worth the wait. what do you people say?
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Old 30th July 2012, 22:12   #107
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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Hi everybody,
Now that Hyundai Elantra is going to be launched, anybody thinks it will be good to wait for few months more to see how it runs in real life and also hoping Skoda may put out a new Laura considering the fact that its time for a facelift for same? Some test drive reports for Elantra were positive regarding interior and drive quality. Also worth considering in its favour will be wider availability of service network. I think postponing my D1 sedan buy (right now VW and Skoda Laura both in diesel are serious contenders with Fluence waiting to be interviewed in person) for next year will be worth the wait. what do you people say?
all I can say is, if you postpone your purchase to next year, theres no guarantee that you wont be in the same quandary at that time. there might be new launches or new versions of existing cars by that time (e.g new civic). all the new merc a class might come that will be in your budget. think about it - u could be driving a merc!
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Old 31st July 2012, 09:12   #108
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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Originally Posted by dezrskb View Post
Now that Hyundai Elantra is going to be launched, anybody thinks it will be good to wait for few months more to see how it runs in real life and also hoping Skoda may put out a new Laura considering the fact that its time for a facelift for same? Some test drive reports for Elantra were positive regarding interior and drive quality. Also worth considering in its favour will be wider availability of service network. I think postponing my D1 sedan buy (right now VW and Skoda Laura both in diesel are serious contenders with Fluence waiting to be interviewed in person) for next year will be worth the wait. what do you people say?
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all I can say is, if you postpone your purchase to next year, theres no guarantee that you wont be in the same quandary at that time. there might be new launches or new versions of existing cars by that time (e.g new civic). all the new merc a class might come that will be in your budget. think about it - u could be driving a merc!
Agree with what Joslicx mentioned. Newer models will keep coming in, and you need to decide based on your requirements Ė whether you need a new car now, next year or beyond. For e.g.; you wait for the new Laura /Octavia (something which is not announced yet), and when you are ready to buy, there is a possibility that another two models are announced. So it really depends on whether you really need a new car now, or itís more like a nice-to-have

On a side note, do a TD of the Elantra and see if satisfy your requirements. I donít think you need to wait for a stabilizing period, as the car is already having a good run in other markets.
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Old 1st August 2012, 22:24   #109
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Hi people,
Now that I have nearly zeroed on VW Jetta / Skoda Laura (with slightly higher affinity for Jetta, this being more premium than the other), I started reading opinions from various forums and other available information on net. However its saddening to know that as per customer opinions / surveys Japanese brands like Toyota and Honda still are much more reliable compared to European brands though these claim being technologically more advanced, have more powerful engines, probably more comfortable and better built etc and Volkswagen group products in particular including Skoda have fared poorly as far as reliability is concerned. It’s also saddening to know that after being ready to shell out huge money to the tune of 20L, we don’t get a European vehicle which ticks a box labeled “reliable” like Toyota. Having owned two Maruti Suzuki cars now, reliability was never an issue for me. Of course no company manufactures 100% reliable cars with all having their positives and negatives. Now comes the Hyundai Elantra which seems to be good in features and is a Korean brand with a fairly reliability record in India (or so I feel). I guess a perfectionist like me pays a heavy price in terms of sound sleep and mental peace while choosing a premium car and one who goes by heart and not by his brain is happier. What do you say?
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:00   #110
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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Originally Posted by dezrskb View Post
Hi people,
Now that I have nearly zeroed on VW Jetta / Skoda Laura (with slightly higher affinity for Jetta, this being more premium than the other), I started reading opinions from various forums and other available information on net. However its saddening to know that as per customer opinions / surveys Japanese brands like Toyota and Honda still are much more reliable compared to European brands though these claim being technologically more advanced, have more powerful engines, probably more comfortable and better built etc and Volkswagen group products in particular including Skoda have fared poorly as far as reliability is concerned. It’s also saddening to know that after being ready to shell out huge money to the tune of 20L, we don’t get a European vehicle which ticks a box labeled “reliable” like Toyota. Having owned two Maruti Suzuki cars now, reliability was never an issue for me. Of course no company manufactures 100% reliable cars with all having their positives and negatives. Now comes the Hyundai Elantra which seems to be good in features and is a Korean brand with a fairly reliability record in India (or so I feel). I guess a perfectionist like me pays a heavy price in terms of sound sleep and mental peace while choosing a premium car and one who goes by heart and not by his brain is happier. What do you say?
Hi dezrskb. I was in a similar dilemma a year back. I wanted a change from a Toyota Corolla to another sedan from the same segment as I am self driven, extra large dimensions were not desirable. THe new Jetta was not launched yet and the only 'Euro' option I had was the Laura. Having owned Martuis, Hyundais and a Toyota in the past I had my apprehensions in going for a Euro car. Reliability was one major concern. I did my research and the model I had zeroed in on had been in the market for more than a couple of years and owners seemed to be happy. Even worldwide owners seemed to be happy and reliability issues reported were on par with the Japs. The internet is flooded with reviews from unhappy Skoda owners here in India. Just google for unhappy Hyundai customers and you will be surprised with the results.

THe Laura is my first car from a Euro marque and I can tell you I am totally smitten and am going to need a hell a lot of convincing if I am ever going back to the Japs or the Koreans for for my sedan needs. So far my car has not suffered from any reliability issues and for me it is as trustworthy as my old Toyota. THe experience with the A.S.S. has been better than Maruti, Hyundai and Toyota so far. Of course when nothing goes wrong with the car everything is hunkydory with A.S.S as well.

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 2nd August 2012 at 11:01.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 13:11   #111
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Hi Santhoshbhat
Thanks for your opinion. Your words do give me some comfort and courage. Of course one can get a lemon from even the most reputed auto maker and in spite of doing lot of research. No amount of research helps you to avoid getting a lemon. Research only shows you whether there are any consistent issues with a particular car or its part that too if many of its owners frequently suffer from same problem and then too only if they put their opinions on forums like these. Of course so-called taxi image of Skoda in European countries says that it is not sold as a sophisticated premium car there. I’m not worried about that. It worries me when I read reports saying consumers vote it as an unreliable brand / make and susceptible for frequent breakdowns needing costly maintenance. It is not acceptable when a car breaks down in the middle of the night during a long drive with family leaving me stranded in the middle of nowhere in spite of regular maintenance as advised by the company. The frequency with which such problems are reported from a particular brand makes it reliable / un-reliable. I heard lot of Toyota Qualis owners previously complaining about the looks and interior, and forums joining the criticism saying Toyota has dumped a phased off vehicle from western country on India etc but never saw the word “unreliable”. Japanese seem to be consistently making reliable vehicles and I guess such an impression from customers needs decades of hard work and commitment to quality. Most probably I will take my expensive jump (Laura / jetta) in near future because I don’t find anything similar in the price band (15-20L) from Toyota (it might have been Corolla if it was launched with revamped interiors and more powerful diesel engine) / Honda (lack of diesel) / Suzuki (Kizashi – no diesel) / Nissan (Teana only in petrol) and Europeans seem to be having what I want (though supposedly less reliable). I spoke with 3 Laura owners recently and all of them are very happy with their vehicles and strongly recommended me same. So it’s a mixed response from the forums. But let me experiment this time and I pray god this experiment will not leave me bankrupt. [FONT=Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings]J[/FONT][/FONT]
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Old 2nd August 2012, 13:37   #112
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Your search has now taken you to another thread (15-18 Lac Rupee cars).
BTW did you TD the Linea T-Jet. I am sure it is still the best one available in that price bracket.
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Most probably I will take my expensive jump (Laura / jetta) in near future because I donít find anything similar in the price band (15-20L) from Toyota (it might have been Corolla if it was launched with revamped interiors and more powerful diesel engine) / Honda (lack of diesel) / Suzuki (Kizashi Ė no diesel) / Nissan (Teana only in petrol) and Europeans seem to be having what I want (though supposedly less reliable).
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Old 2nd August 2012, 19:49   #113
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Originally Posted by carwatcher
Your search has now taken you to another thread (15-18 Lac Rupee cars).
BTW did you TD the Linea T-Jet. I am sure it is still the best one available in that price bracket.
Thanks for the suggestion carwatcher.
I haven't test driven a T jet yet as my preference was for a diesel sedan. I did read the review of the car on this forum. But felt that space at backseat may be a small issue with this car though for me such need for seating 3 adults at backseat may come only once in a while. But will look at the car definitely. The ride quality and the dynamics seem to be in place. A similar one in diesel would have ticked more boxes for me
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Old 2nd August 2012, 20:01   #114
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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It is not acceptable when a car breaks down in the middle of the night during a long drive with family leaving me stranded in the middle of nowhere in spite of regular maintenance as advised by the company. The frequency with which such problems are reported from a particular brand makes it reliable / un-reliable.
Your point is completely valid and reliability is something every customer needs to be assured of, in every segment. I personally know some Skoda owners, across segments, myself own a VW, and no one I know has had any major issue thus far. We have to understand that a machine is a machine and may have shortcomings, every machine does.
From all I've read 'bout these Euro car issues etc I've always found the dealer and seller at fault, seldom the company. As long as the vehicle delivered to you is a new vehicle straight from the stock, I see a very very low probability of failure (and every vehicle would have that one percent chance).
Take the jump and get a Euro beauty, they're no nonsense performers.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 21:19   #115
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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Thanks for the suggestion carwatcher.
I haven't test driven a T jet yet as my preference was for a diesel sedan. I did read the review of the car on this forum. But felt that space at backseat may be a small issue with this car though for me such need for seating 3 adults at backseat may come only once in a while. But will look at the car definitely. The ride quality and the dynamics seem to be in place. A similar one in diesel would have ticked more boxes for me
Tjet would be my suggestion as well if your budget is <10L and you want a MT car.
However since you are willing to go upto 20L you have choice of better cars. Amongst the current lot, the Laura 2.0Tdi is awesome (MT or AT is your call). Solidly built car, its the car to buy in that segment.

If you are willing to wait then I guess you might have some more interesting choices in a years time. The new Civic will be coming. Also the Merc A class. And Skoda might just launch the MissionL (european Rapid) as the new Octavia. Now that is a fantastic looking car. I think all we are doing is to just confuse you further
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Old 2nd August 2012, 21:53   #116
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Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by negativeH

Your point is completely valid and reliability is something every customer needs to be assured of, in every segment. I personally know some Skoda owners, across segments, myself own a VW, and no one I know has had any major issue thus far. We have to understand that a machine is a machine and may have shortcomings, every machine does.
From all I've read 'bout these Euro car issues etc I've always found the dealer and seller at fault, seldom the company. As long as the vehicle delivered to you is a new vehicle straight from the stock, I see a very very low probability of failure (and every vehicle would have that one percent chance).
Take the jump and get a Euro beauty, they're no nonsense performers.
Thanks for the opinion negativeH
While I'm going to do all I can to ensure that I don't get a defective vehicle, I'm quite determined to go European way and get one of them this time. Having experienced the Japanese reliability, let me also experience the European build quality and driving dynamics. By the way is there a thread somewhere in this forum to tell me what I can do to ensure I get a brand new vehicle without defects ? I know I can ask for the engine and chassis number of the vehicle allotted to me after I order it from the dealer even before the vehicle is dispatched from the factory. I can also look at odometer. May be I can inform the dealer beforehand that I will look for manufacture dates etc. Will be taking test drive of Jetta and Fluence day after tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by joslicx

Tjet would be my suggestion as well if your budget is <10L and you want a MT car.
However since you are willing to go upto 20L you have choice of better cars. Amongst the current lot, the Laura 2.0Tdi is awesome (MT or AT is your call). Solidly built car, its the car to buy in that segment.

If you are willing to wait then I guess you might have some more interesting choices in a years time. The new Civic will be coming. Also the Merc A class. And Skoda might just launch the MissionL (european Rapid) as the new Octavia. Now that is a fantastic looking car. I think all we are doing is to just confuse you further
Thanks for the suggestion
Waiting is not a problem as my Dzire is in mint condition. But I'm determined to go for the best possible in the category. Not automatic even though I can afford it. I believe MT is good for an enthusiastic driver in me. I have heard lot of good things about the DSG box in Laura / Jetta though. Will be Any idea when are the new vehicles you mentioned about will be launched? Even if that happens in first quarter of next year, I'm not in a hurry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dezrskb

Thanks for the suggestion
Waiting is not a problem as my Dzire is in mint condition. But I'm determined to go for the best possible in the category. Not automatic even though I can afford it. I believe MT is good for an enthusiastic driver in me. I have heard lot of good things about the DSG box in Laura / Jetta though. Will be Any idea when are the new vehicles you mentioned about will be launched? Even if that happens in first quarter of next year, I'm not in a hurry.
Edited : I just browsed some information on Skoda Mission L and Merc A class. But Mission L seems to be in one segment lower probably replacing present rapid (?) and Merc A class is a mini. I'm looking at something which is in the category of Laura / jetta. Probably they should launch a new Laura

Note from Team-bhp support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread!

Last edited by GTO : 3rd August 2012 at 14:29. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 2nd August 2012, 23:10   #117
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

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Edited : I just browsed some information on Skoda Mission L and Merc A class. But Mission L seems to be in one segment lower probably replacing present rapid (?) and Merc A class is a mini. I'm looking at something which is in the category of Laura / jetta. Probably they should launch a new Laura
MissionL, if launched in India, is not going to replace present Rapid. The Indian Rapid is not even 1 year old! Surely it is not going to be replaced in near future. If anything, it will be launched as a new car between Rapid and Laura in the 12-15L space (purely my view)

A-class is a Merc sir. If you look at dimensions it is as big as my vento! It is a super big hatch. As per Autocar it will come with 1.8L turbocharged engine (or maybe even 2.2L from the C class) and it boasts 0-100 in under 8s!!! There is no other car in that price range that can come close. If you are looking for a self-driven car then it has to be under consideration. I know that if I had 20L to burn then this would be the car I'd wanna drive. It will be comfortable for 4 people only though.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 23:17   #118
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Thanks joslicx for the information.
Yes. I know a Mercedes is a dream vehicle to drive. If its spacious enough for 4 with reasonably good luggage space (I still would prefer a 3 box design of a sedan with a separate luggage space), and also if it is reasonably priced (I Know we will have to pay a premium for this badge but the company too has same thoughts in mind and ends up putting a good chunk of it), I can go for it. But as of now, the upper limit of 20L OTR may not be stretchable further for me.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 12:17   #119
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Lightbulb Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Turbocharged-KC, I guess that has to be one of the biggest paradoxical lines in the current Indian automotive space. That for a million rupee car, the words "elusive" and "perfect" can still so easily find their way into the same sentence. This for a fairly diverse market such as ours and plenty of options across badges/cars/trims to pick from.

On a side note, I gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised with discovering so many (secret?) admirers of the Chevy Optra Magnum in the course of your thread. I have a 2009 Magnum Diesel with over 70K on the odo and can report first hand that the car has exceeded all my expectations. It has a stonker of a mill, impressive overall ride quality and handling across varied Indian road conditions, sturdy build and interiors and comes with all-discs brakes. The last yet a segment first, IIRC. Not to mention, it hasn't been tugging hard at the purse strings too - especially if averaged over 3 years of ownership. Admittedly, it is a tad Plain Jane and lacks those bells and whistles that the Koreans/Japs routinely throw in nowadays. However if you're looking for sheer performance and driveability at an affordable price point, the Optra Magnum TCDi's audaciously powerful 2.0L is sure to get your adrenaline pumping. It will keep pace with most of its peers and seniors (even from a segment or 2 above) if not completely blow them away. So if you're hardcoded on the 14 Lac ceiling, don't put it on the back burner just yet. I don't see how you won't be breaching that with the new Elantra or the Jetta.

That being said, it would be unfair to compare it with the likes of a Jetta, Laura, Cruz etc. Besides being a segment higher, they will set you back well over 3 Lacs over the Optra. I doubt any of those diesels will be under 15 Lacs OTR anywhere in India - certainly not one registered in Mumbai.

Last edited by Omtoatom : 3rd August 2012 at 12:22.
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Old 4th August 2012, 23:26   #120
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Default Re: The ever-ELUSIVE "perfect car" for 10 - 14 lakh rupees!

Hi guys,
As a part of my search for a good sedan I test drove VW New jetta and Renault Fluence today. Below is what I felt
Fluence first: Test drove E2 Diesel but older engine with the turbo lag. Sales Agent mentioned same to me and also told me it has been completely removed in latest 110ps Engine. I am in the habit of not believing a letter of what these guys say. So yet to test same. I had the New E4 diesel to look at inside show room. Lot of crowd around the Duster and I guess its overbooked. No wonder. Myself and my wife too just had a look out of curiosity though it was not in our mind. My wife liked it immediately. I liked the driving position and the plenty of space around, good visibility etc. But quality of interior plastics is not good enough for me. Anyway we didn’t test drive it and let me not deviate from my topic.
Fluence Looks: I felt it’s a beautiful vehicle, a stunner (beauty is in the eyes of beholder. I have read posts saying its ugly. I cant imagine anybody doing that). Paint quality top notch. Build quality – looks sturdy. Doors and bonnet are quite heavy unlike my Dzire which feels tinny. Boot space good enough.
Interiors: Space: very good. Back seat would be seating 3 adults for quite some distance but for the central hump and intruding rear AC vent. Plastic quality much better than Duster anyway. Driving position fairly good. Seat height adjustment mechanical. But fair enough. If I am going to drive it daily, I can’t imagine why I would need different driving positions everyday. Road visibility for a person 5’4” is fine (me). Steering wheel felt fine. Power steering good. Feedback: fair enough. I haven’t tried many hydraulic power steerings to comment. Engine felt smooth enough. But oh yes, turbo lag is felt till about 2K after which it takes off. Ability to absorb road irregularities appeared about equivalent or slightly worse than Corolla Altis which I would rate as best in the category. Brakes are very good.
Sales agent at Renault Mangalore could not dedicate his whole attention on me as too many prospective customers around. I tested it at 120kmph for a short stretch, felt steady enough. Wife at back seat felt good. My 2 knowledgeable kids of 5 and 2 agreed it feels good.

Then we proceeded to VW
No separate showroom / test drive vehicle. They used their boss’s Jetta for demo. It’s a Highline Diesel DSG. First time for me to drive an automatic.
Exteriors: Understated elegance is correct word. Build quality is solid (Fluence too was similar). Lookwise I place it below Fluence.
Interiors: Beige leatherette is ligher than beige of Fluence which I felt was better shade. It’s a maintenance nightmare in Jetta. Sales agent enquired whether I drove any automatics before. I said no. He feels apprehensive and sits beside me and asks me to keep my left leg folded. Ha Ha. He says at least intially my foot will reach for clutch and habit dies after some time. But believe me when I say I felt completely at home with the automatic and not a single time my left foot searched for a clutch. May be I am made for an automatic. Space seems good enough. Driving position and visibility is fair. Steering felt very good. I felt the DSG was brilliant but it shifts up slower than I like. I felt I would be able to utilize power better with manual. I felt the acceleration was better and I got a better driving thrill with Laura manual. I also felt sudden accelerations for overtaking would take some time to judge and get used to. Suspension is firm and you feel the road irregularities bit more than in Fluence.
So in a nutshell about all the vehicles tested till date
Power drive and driving thrill: Laura manual >Jetta Automatic > Fluence manual> Corolla Altis manual. However I should mention Corolla had a sort of linear acceleration and felt nice too. Turbo lag was most in Older engine Fluence.
Back seat comfort: Corolla Altis>Fluence> Laura = Jetta
Brakes: Laura>Jetta> Fluence >Corolla

As of now my preferences: Laura = Jetta (but Skoda horror stories and A.S.S quality rumors may make me go Jetta’s way)>Fluence > Corolla Altis. But if somebody questions me which is most reliable, I would vote for Corolla Altis.
I have a more disturbed and confused soul in me after this test drive now. Let’s see how things shape up in near future.

Last edited by dezrskb : 4th August 2012 at 23:29.
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