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View Poll Results: Verna Fluidic Vs Honda City Vs Fiat Tjet
Verna Fludic 1.6 62 16.10%
Honda City 129 33.51%
Fiat Tjet 185 48.05%
Any other option 9 2.34%
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Old 16th September 2014, 14:59   #181
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
.. Someone who's owned a Vento/Polo DSG for a reasonable time period can give you first-hand feedback..
Yeah I read the statements by VAG but would be great if first hand owners here can share their experience. Any turbo lag issues like the Ecoboost at lower revvs?
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Old 16th September 2014, 15:03   #182
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Yeah I read the statements by VAG but would be great if first hand owners here can share their experience. Any turbo lag issues like the Ecoboost at lower revvs?
I've only driven a borrowed car for a limited time so you'll need further corroboration on this by an actual owner, but I found the DSG a hoot to drive with the 1.2 TSI (lag, if any, was superbly masked by the transmission). The only car in the same budget that's as much fun is the (not available in India) Fiesta 1.6 Petrol with the Powershift dual clutch transmission. No offense to Ecoboost (it's terrific technology), but it's not in the same class as TSI as far as refinement and driving pleasure is concerned.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 16th September 2014 at 15:06.
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Old 16th September 2014, 16:06   #183
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
Yeah I read the statements by VAG but would be great if first hand owners here can share their experience. Any turbo lag issues like the Ecoboost at lower revvs?
There is hardly any turbo lag in the TSI. The peak torque comes in at as low as 1500 rpm, and most of the times you are doing above that. (idling RPM is 1000). I have seen it drop below the boost a few times when I am driving it very gently at 60-70 speed in 7th gear in D mode, but any dab on the throttle wakes up the transmission which drops a gear and off you go. alternately, i just put the DSG in S mode, which drops 2 gears instantaneously.
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Old 16th September 2014, 17:28   #184
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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1. How's the performance compared to HONDA city? Straightline and Handling curves.
Don't know the real world results, but I think Honda city maybe slightly faster than Vento.
Reason: Lightning quick upshifts from the Vento's DSG can help it gained the lost milliseconds.

Never driven both cars(yes, but driven a polo TSI), handling is good in the Polo TSI. Can't compare it though.

Quote:
2. On paper the power seems more in the HONDA but the torque in TSI is more. How's the real world result?
Torque is really good in the TSI. It has a good torque plateau(175 Nm from 1500~3500 rpm), whereas Honda city will have an increasing torque and a peak torque of 145 Nm @4600 rpm.
Vento can really do better than the city.
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Old 16th September 2014, 20:45   #185
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

I will take some liberty to answer your questions despite not owning one, my schoolmate picked a Polo TSI and I have driven it multiple times, just to add, in the first month itself he met with an accident and the damage though cosmetic, the dealer took close to a month to get the car back in shape, so much about VW dealers, of course the car is back in top shape now.

Having said that my friend having a City ZX had to leave the car for more than a month with the local Honda dealer to get it back in shape after a minor shunt. So with neither can expect sterling service like from Maruti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
1. How's the performance compared to HONDA city? Straightline and Handling curves.
I think straight line should be close but curves, Vento is quite better, straightforward winner actually.

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
2. On paper the power seems more in the HONDA but the torque in TSI is more. How's the real world result?
In gear acceleration or off the block, torque wins. Couple that to the brilliant DSG which lets you gain advantage with those shift times (damn quick shifts, its only the RPM's that are a give away, its quite smooth, though you know it shifts). And if at all that motor has turbo lag, this DSG masks it well.

I may be wrong but horse powers will give you a better top-end which I have no doubt that the City will have.
But for all of us it is how we get there that matters, flat torque makes the 1.2TSI+DSG combo lethal, anyways top-speed is reduced to a mere statistic on Indian roads.

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3. I hear everyone say the DSG reliablity is questionable, but did anyone face any real issue till now in the indian POLO/Vento equipped with the DSG?
I haven't come across any negative feedback on this install, it was with the previous Jetta/Laura/Superb with 7 speed that has issues, VW addressed it with the oil change.
Moreover that gearbox is rated for 250 torque, this 1.2 TSI makes less, so it isn't putting it at its limit either.

Let me add FTD factor is infinitely better in the TSI+DSG unless you are one of them "give me a stick shift any day", as all autos will pale in comparison.

To cite an example, on an inclined 2 lane highway, the vehicles ahead are crawling due to a truck in front, I approach, brake, fall in line, as there is a constant stream of cars approaching downhill in the opposite lane, and I join the traffic crawling upwards, waiting for an opportunity. On spotting a gap in oncoming traffic, floor the pedal, and presto I have cleared the cars and the truck in one go and while overtaking the DSG upshifts as well to remain in peak power band, the response is instantaneous, now this could be done with a manual as long as you downshifted to the right gear and upshift, of course this 1.2 TSI does not have that huge surge or leap like in other bigger models or turbo diesels, but that DSG always picks the right gear and right RPM to be in power always.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 16th September 2014 at 21:14.
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Old 16th September 2014, 21:44   #186
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Don't know the real world results, but I think Honda city maybe slightly faster than Vento.
Think you meant the other way around because of this -
Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Reason: Lightning quick upshifts from the Vento's DSG can help it gained the lost milliseconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Vento can really do better than the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Handling is good in the Polo TSI.
Regarding handling, let me add for the benefit of the OP, those tires on the City do it little justice, broader tires maybe 195 width should do much better, of course still won't hold candle against Vento.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 16th September 2014 at 21:48.
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Old 16th September 2014, 22:01   #187
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by s_pphilip View Post
Think you meant the other way around because of this -

Quote:
Reason: Lightning quick upshifts from the Vento's DSG can help it gained the lost milliseconds.

I meant what I said, because City has got more power than the Vento.
But due to lightning quick upshitfts from the DSG and Vento's torque plateau, the Vento can gain lost milliseconds.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Looks like we don't have a shootout between Automatics anywhere online.
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Old 16th September 2014, 22:29   #188
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
I meant what I said, because City has got more power than the Vento.
But due to lightning quick upshitfts from the DSG and Vento's torque plateau, the Vento can gain lost milliseconds.
Sorry, I am no expert, I thought it was a typo as both lines countered each other, I thought you said the City is faster, reason being the DSG's quick shifts, I didn't quite figure that.
Read again and now understood you meant the Vento bridges the gap due to the quick shifts. :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Looks like we don't have a shootout between Automatics anywhere online.
Right here, but I think between these auto's the DSG reins supreme and despite the power, City has a delay inducing CVT. I think the Vento TSI+DSG is even faster in practical world than City MT, of course I don't have any stats till another comes up with some.

Flat out may be different where the Vento may chew on dust spewed by City MT ahead.


Thanks D4D, yes I figured it, sorry for the confusion.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 16th September 2014 at 22:43.
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Old 16th September 2014, 22:32   #189
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by s_pphilip View Post
Sorry, I am no expert, I thought it was a typo as both lines countered each other, I thought you said the City is faster, reason being the DSG's quick shifts, I didn't quite figure that.
I just meant that City might be slightly faster than the Vento as it's got more BHP. But Vento's DSG will almost bridge the gap is what I feel.
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Old 17th September 2014, 12:49   #190
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Looks like we don't have a shootout between Automatics anywhere online.
No. We do have. Here's one from Autocar.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-fea...-368657.aspx/2

Despite having the smaller, less powerful 103bhp engine, the Vento is approximately a half a second quicker to both 100 and 120. Various factors contribute to this slightly stronger performance. For one, direct injection and turbocharging both help make additional torque, and with 17.4kgm of pull from just 1,500rpm, the Vento has plenty of it. But it’s the wide spread of ratios of the seven-speed twin-clutch gearbox that squeezes the best out of the engine.
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Old 17th September 2014, 13:28   #191
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

Reliability debates aside, the DSG is probably one of the best auto-boxes available in the market today. You may find users who'll complain about its reliability, but I've never met one who said the DSG can't PERFORM!
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Old 17th September 2014, 16:46   #192
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post

Despite having the smaller, less powerful 103bhp engine, the Vento is approximately a half a second quicker to both 100 and 120. Various factors contribute to this slightly stronger performance. For one, direct injection and turbocharging both help make additional torque, and with 17.4kgm of pull from just 1,500rpm, the Vento has plenty of it.
Well thanks for the Article. So Vento's high tech motor does beat the City CVT. Impressive.
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Old 17th September 2014, 19:45   #193
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TSI engine supercharged? There shouldn't be any lag as the supercharger should kick in at low rpms to counterbalance the turbo lag. The turbo would boost performance at the higher rpm bands. Which is why in theory the TSI should be an exciting drive!
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Old 18th September 2014, 03:29   #194
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by SoumenD View Post
No. We do have. Here's one from Autocar.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-fea...-368657.aspx/2
Thanks SoumenD, Valuable.

2 interesting observations from the review which I thought is different from what I felt - I found the DSG immensely practical in sort of 'in-gear acceleration' moments.

Regarding power train/slush box - favors City

The Vento, however, isn’t as peppy or responsive from low speeds as the Honda. It feels quite flat footed at first – it has no torque converter or torque multiplier, so there’s a bit of a delay when you floor the throttle. On part throttle, the TSI motor works well, but it’s not as perky as the City in slower traffic. Also, at low speeds, the twin-clutch gearbox doesn’t work as seamlessly as the City’s CVT.


Whats also interesting is the handling/ride/steering bit - Hmmn again favors City

.... but the relatively softly sprung VW has a tendency to pitch a bit over rough patches and there’s a fair bit of vertical movement on an uneven road. The City, on the other hand, ..... and the ride improves dramatically as you go past around 40kph. At speed, the City’s ride is settled and flat, with almost no vertical movement.

The City also has the nicer steering. Though it’s a bit numb, it weighs up well at speed and is quite free of slack. What’s truly impressive is the City’s straight-line stability, which gives you good confidence at speed.



So I thought the opposite - flat out City should be better than the DSG and in-gear the DSG better, well I am wrong here on both counts, but never the less I quite like that DSG.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 18th September 2014 at 03:33.
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Old 18th September 2014, 13:39   #195
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Default Re: Verna Fluidic 1.6 Vs Fiat Tjet Vs Honda City

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Originally Posted by dingolphie View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TSI engine supercharged? There shouldn't be any lag as the supercharger should kick in at low rpms to counterbalance the turbo lag. The turbo would boost performance at the higher rpm bands. Which is why in theory the TSI should be an exciting drive!
nope, its just a turbocharger. You wouldn't expect to find the Twin turbo or a Supercharger-turbocharger combo at this price point. the manufacturers barely give a variable geometry turbo under 10L
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