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Old 19th September 2011, 17:35   #46
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

IMHO first of all buying a diesel car is good choice considering your monthly running & honestly diesels are now one of the much more refined engines of today's automobile scene.

My opinion of the choices you have poised here:

1. Etios D - This car comes from a well known stable hence, you can rest assued of the build quality & the engine durability. However, it comes as a budget segment car of their line up hence some amount of cost cutting would be apparent. From the reviews that I have read on Team BHP & online have adjudged it as a car which does not like to be revved as much however, would be a breeze to drive within the city. The claimed mileage figures are also quite high in comparison to the actual mileage figures i have seen for the dzire. All in all it's a good family car & will be much less headache to own due to the T badge.

2. DZire - I have personally not been a fan of the humpback whale since its launch however, when you compare it with any other sedan for it VFM characteristics it beats them black & blue.

That said it is true that MSIL is introducing a new version of the Dzire which is planned to be a sub 4 meter car, to reduce the duties levied & in turn reducing it's price however, that said this makes this car as a very prospective choice for tourist cars as well. If you are a person who regards this as a important point for your choice then, this is not the car for you. The car comes with a easy & comparatively lower A.S.S costs. Spares will not be challenge. But, the dzire will have to be held back for a long time considering the fiasco in the MSIL assembly plants in North India. The car orders are queuing up but, the deliveries are not happening. I cancelled my swift booking for the same reason & switched to the i20 CRDi.

Now, to give my cents about other offerings in the market, if you are looking for a car which has a capacity to sit 5 people & has a decent boot space as well. Will also be a slightly more equipped than the earlier two choices:-

Hatchbacks:-
i20 CRDi
Jazz (Its a petrol but a great car nonetheless !)
ix30 (Yet to be launched from Hyundai)

Sedans:-
Vento (Polo does not have a back seat comfort for 5 people hence excluded)
Indigo CS
Manza Elan
Fiesta Classic
City (Its a petrol but a great car nonetheless !)
SX4 Diesel
Linea (You can get good discounts considering its not selling as much)

So to sum it up i suggest you go for the Etios D or pick up a car from the list above. However, your choice is the last choice.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 10:35   #47
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

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Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
Guys, help me out on this -
I've booked an Dzire ZDi on Ganesh Chaturti. I was very happy with my decision, that's until the Etios D came to the party. And now I'm in a fix. Checked out the Etios yesterday & came out somewhat impressed.
I have a Dzire ZDI, and IMO if you are looking for a spacious car then it should be Manza.
If its between Dzire and Etios then I won't prefer Etios because of the interior quality and the sound insulation. Dzire is better in these areas and has a fantastic engine.

The leg room in Dzire is not bad and we are fine with it. We have gone on long drives with 4 adults + 1 Kid and didn't face any issues with the back seat legroom. However, 3 people in back seat will not be comfortable for long drives. 2 adult+1 kid in back seat should be fine. Also, the effect of AC is very good. I have driven 10500Kms in 5 months with no rattles yet and very happy with my buy.

IMO for your requirement, Dzire ZDI should work out well.

Also, Is there a solid/confirmed news that the Dzire is getting phased out? Because it was doing 10000+ sales every month and it is way ahead of Manza/Etios in the sales number. So, will MSIL stop the current model after the new Dzire is launched? Already Dzire is not as spacious as Manza/Etios and new Dzire with less boot space may attract only Swift customers who are looking for a better boot space. Hence I think new Dzire(<4m) can't be compared/compete with Manza/Etios.

MSIL will require the current Dzire to compete with Manza/Etios.


Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsinner View Post
you are consider the Dzire & Etios D, both look ugly. So one question - why are you not considering the verito?
IMO Verito has a taxi image, almost 90% of Verito/Logan that I see on road are taxi's
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Old 23rd September 2011, 11:05   #48
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

I would say Etios D. The Dezire is going to get a lower cost version soon, with a shortened boot, like Indigo CS - sub 4m. That's going to impact the image/resale of the car.

I see it Etios as a much more spacious Sedan. It also has the T badge and it is not far away from the Suzuki in terms of cost. For me its a clear winner.

Caveat: If you are a spirited driver, highways might be more enjoyable with Dezire. Check reviews of both.
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Old 23rd September 2011, 11:28   #49
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

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Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
My main reason for considering Dzire was that I wanted a reliable runner. I hate being stranded THe Manza, I agree has better looks,features & legroom, but it's reliablity is comparatively lesser.
I cannot comment about the reliability of the Manza, but Tata's authorized service station network has come under criticism in the past. Maruti actively addresses customer complaints with respect to its authorized service stations and I would highly recommend a Maruti.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vishnugs View Post
I have owned Swift diesel in the past and had driven more than 1.25 lakh KM on it and I own Etios P as a second car currently.

Swift Dzire in my assumption is similar to Swift in comfort, road handling, performance, fuel efficiency, reliability, after sales service, etc.

But I have serviced my car in different outlets, and so far experience has been outstanding. Believe it it not, they can do any service 5k or 50k in one hours time and return the vehicle. They claim 7 teams work parallel on your car. There is a status dashboard in the customer waiting place which gives you realtime status of work done on your car.

+ Maintenance costs are very much affordable, estimate for 5k, 10k, 20k all together in Smiles package is Rs. 3000 and odd bucks for Petrol, this includes two services where engine fluid replacement included.
From what I hear, the Swift DZire is not as capable as the Swift on highways, because of the higher center of gravity, but it still gives you better handling than an SUV. If you abide by the speed limits, this should not be a concern.

I have never been able to get my Maruti serviced in 1 hour, but with the premium that servicing a Toyota would cost (roughly 20-30% less, especially with the discounts that Varun Motors, Hyderabad, offers) waiting for another 2 hours isn't something I would discount the Maruti authorized service station network for. If you want cheaper spares and a lower running cost, Maruti is always among the top cars of the list.
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Old 28th September 2011, 18:44   #50
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Default Booked Etios V-D !!!!!

OK Guys, just came back after booking the Etios V-D !!!!!!!!
Thanks all for helping me out. Will give out the booking info tomorrow.
Regards
Varun
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Old 28th September 2011, 19:00   #51
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
I see it Etios as a much more spacious Sedan. It also has the T badge and it is not far away from the Suzuki in terms of cost.
It is this aspect that worries some people. A Toyota at the price of a Suzuki? Something must be amiss. Unless there has been some serious cost cutting, the price of a Toyota would be higher. While these concerns are true and visible in the low-grade plastic interiors and some quality slip-ups on the door seals, the vehicle does not compromise on safety and performance for an entry-level vehicle.
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Old 28th September 2011, 21:08   #52
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_nitin_r View Post

From what I hear, the Swift DZire is not as capable as the Swift on highways
You heard it right, it doesn't.Spirited runs are a no-no.Excessive body roll. An owner's account.


Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
OK Guys, just came back after booking the Etios V-D !!!!!!!!
Thanks all for helping me out. Will give out the booking info tomorrow.
Regards
Varun
Congrats on your yet-to-be-delivered car!
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Old 29th September 2011, 09:10   #53
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Smile Re: Booked Etios V-D !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
OK Guys, just came back after booking the Etios V-D !!!!!!!!
Thanks all for helping me out. Will give out the booking info tomorrow.
Regards
Varun
Varun,

Congratulations on the Etios booking. So finally what tilted in the favour of Etios? Eagerly awaiting your perspective and other booking details too.
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Old 29th September 2011, 14:37   #54
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Default Re: Booked Etios V-D !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
OK Guys, just came back after booking the Etios V-D !!!!!!!!
Thanks all for helping me out. Will give out the booking info tomorrow.
Regards
Varun
If you are not in a hurry I would suggest waiting for the Nissan Sunny D. You'll get the same Japanese reliability + good VFM pricing + much better quality interiors/features comparable to C segment + almost same rear space/seating. Check out the Nissan Petrol review on TBHP.

I have owned a Nissan earlier and own an Etios now. Do not have any problems with the Etios. But if I was in the market today, I would definitely take a look at Nissan.

Last edited by andromeda : 29th September 2011 at 14:38.
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Old 29th September 2011, 15:20   #55
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Default Re: Booked Etios V-D !!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda View Post
If you are not in a hurry I would suggest waiting for the Nissan Sunny D. You'll get the same Japanese reliability + good VFM pricing + much better quality interiors/features comparable to C segment + almost same rear space/seating. Check out the Nissan Petrol review on TBHP.

I have owned a Nissan earlier and own an Etios now. Do not have any problems with the Etios. But if I was in the market today, I would definitely take a look at Nissan.
Hey andromeda, tell me more about it! I am gradully turning into a fan of Sunny for the price at which the good-looking caaar is on offer.

Is Nissan really as good in terms of reliability as the other big two - Toyota & Honda? My question arises, because, in US, a similar specced Nissan sells at a substantial discount to a Toyota. Also, the quality surveys I have seen (though not sure to what extent to believe in them) place Nissan well below these two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
OK Guys, just came back after booking the Etios V-D !!!!!!!!
Thanks all for helping me out. Will give out the booking info tomorrow.
Regards
Varun
Congratulations on the decision! Pl. do share the details along with promised delivery period.

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 29th September 2011 at 15:41.
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Old 29th September 2011, 15:36   #56
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

I would say Dzire-D. I have driven petrol variants of both these cars and am not impressed with either. But, if I would have to chose between these 2 cars alone, I would suggest the Dzire.

There should not be a problem of the resale value after 5 years as a Sub-4 meter Dzire would be smaller than this one and probably after 5 years, this Dzire would still sell at a premium over the smaller Dzire.
And, we drive our car pool Zen which is a 1998 car, and we still have no problems with any of its spares.

The problem with Etios for me is that it is the Tinniest car. (I felt as though I was driving my old Omni when I drove the petrol Etios).

Factors that Dzire beats the Etios:
Steering-handling
Interior quality
Build
Music system

The best thing about the Etios over the Dzire is its ride.
I cant see anything else that the Etios can better the Dzire. (Cant comment on its performance as I have not driven the Etios diesel)
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Old 29th September 2011, 16:12   #57
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Default Re: Booked Etios V-D !!!!!

Firstly, I do not want to hijack another person's thread. But was searching for Etios reviews/recent sale numbers after the competition turning on the heat - found this thread. Saw a full page ad in Sunday's paper here in Bangalore that Etios Petrol is available off the shelf for Rs.1 insurance. Looks like Etios P sales have gone down considerably. Not sure if it's due to Etios D or the competition. My gut feeling says it's the later (after reading about Etios D's NVH issues in the official TBHP reviews). The Sep-Oct sales numbers will confirm this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Hey andromeda, tell me more about it! I am gradully turning into a fan of Sunny for the price at which the good-looking caaar is on offer.

Is Nissan really as good in terms of reliability as the other big two - Toyota & Honda? My question arises, because, in US, a similar specced Nissan sells at a substantial discount to a Toyota. Also, the quality surveys I have seen (though not sure to what extent to believe in them) place Nissan well below these two.


You bet.
My 2 cents.
In terms of quality/reliability of the core parts (Engine/Drivetrain, etc) Toyota/Nissan/Honda are pretty much on the same scale. Do remember that Nissan was the top Japanese car maker (if not for their financial mess in the early 90s, due to which Carlos Ghosn had to pick up stake and fire 25k Nissan employees). Even Renault agreed at that time that Nissan engineering was ages beyond the best Renault has/had. In fact, the mess Nissan encountered was nothing to do with their Engineering - it was a marketing failure. They just had too many products/variants and their marketing guys just didn't know which to promote . Now they are back to being the 2nd top Japanese carmaker in the world. Hope they catch up and bypass Toyota soon.


Coming to the practical experience, I have owned Nissan Sentra, Altima, and still own Toyota Corolla/Sequoia here in the US. My Altima is 120000+ miles and still going without any major issues. I'm not looking to sell it till it reaches 250000+ OR I end up getting a fat estimate which is more than 50% of the car's current worth. Japanese cars last 250k - 300k with proper maintenance (regular oil change, fluid topups, electronic checks, etc..).
Ask 99% of the desis, they stick to Nissan Altima, Honda Civic/Accord OR Toyota Camry - for a good reason (we desis need a car which does not fall apart as long as we want it and need the bang for every buck).

Did buy a used Toyota Sequoia as well for using it as people mover + experiencing the SUV factor and I got a very good deal (or so I thought, unfortunately). Unfortunately my timing (2007) was horrible since the gas prices shot up through the roof once I bought it. It's a little bigger than Scorpio and little smaller than Land Cruiser. It's a white elephant now and I use it sparingly. Do have issues with braking at high speeds and the high speed-stability issues (due to very high GC). My ODO says 65k miles and I had to change the Alternator once (which is unheard off when it comes to the Jap. cars). The recent unintended acceleration recalls (of pretty much all the recent year Sequoias, but not mine yet) have added to my apprehension.

Next up, I was looking for a no-nonsense/niggle free (even feature free would have done) car in India sometime late last year. For any so-called international car, I didn't want to pay double the amount in India. So that pretty much left out the cars at 10+ lakh (due to any reason like taxes, excise, customs, etc....) After checking out all of them I ended up buying Etios P due to these reasons (strictly in that order).

1. Didn't find a better available no-nonsense car in the 5-8L petrol car among the Manza/Dzire/Etios/Verito.
2. Among the lot, found the driveability (esp. the low end torque, turning radius, etc..), space (rear legroom, boot, etc..) to be better in the Etios.
3. @ that time, I could safely say 'beggars are not choosers'. So was ready to compromise with the NVH (since I had to get it fixed later outside).

As I said in my earlier post, I do not have any issues with the Etios P as of today. But if you ask me do you like it as I used to when I bought it - it's unquestionably NO. Will I drive my car for the next X years - Yes, since I do not have the luxury of trading it now.

Reason - It's not a VFM anymore, when you look at the market. For this reason, if someone asks me if Etios is VFM today or even going forward (when competition will only increase), I would unequivocally say NO. In fact, I would not even recommend it to anyone.

In the next 2-3 months, I see Toyota going the Honda way (either slashing the Etios prices substantially OR match the real 'Q' class interiors/features provided in Sunny).

Remember guys, I own more than one Toyota product and DO NOT have any issues with Etios (neither any grudge against the brand). But when it comes to money, I just feel they are fleecing the public's hard-earned money by dubbing it as 'Q' class.
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Old 29th September 2011, 22:07   #58
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

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Originally Posted by andromeda View Post
Firstly, I do not want to hijack another person's thread.
.................................................. ....................
.................................................. ...................

Remember guys, I own more than one Toyota product and DO NOT have any issues with Etios (neither any grudge against the brand). But when it comes to money, I just feel they are fleecing the public's hard-earned money by dubbing it as 'Q' class.
Thanks andromeda, for sharing your perspective and experience. I am also wondering if OP's thread is being hijacked. But since we've started the game, let's now finish it off too, else we would be doing disservice to the OP. Where are you powertrain? You might be wondering that just now you've booked Etios and now this?!

Anyways, let me clear the air from my side. Andromeda, I think you are coming down too hard on Etios. As far as I know, Toyota is not known to typically provide either great looking cars or great interiors for the segment. What it does provide though, considering reliability aspect as equal for all three Japanese majors, is user-friendly vehicles with emphasis on "Function over Form". Of course, your disappointment with Etios interiors is understandable, you're a desi having spent considerable time in US gotten used to way superior cars and their interiors. For most of us poor Indians, that can do just fine, if other things are in place.

We also have the fact that Etios, from a well-entrenched brand in India, is priced lower than Nissan having hardly any brand recall. To what extent can we expect from Etios?

Even if you disregard this aspect, product to product, Nissan has messed up on the following functionalities (based on my understanding from the official review of Sunny):
  • Rear head room
  • Vague gearbox
  • Brake pedal feedback
  • Missing USB
  • Did Etios steal the storage spaces in cabin and glovebox?!

On the other hand, Etios has following advantages:
  • Superior engine performance and marginally better driveability
  • Established & respected A.S.S. of Toyota - Nissan is X-factor here
  • Lower turning radius
  • Bigger bootspace
Overall, I feel that Etios pricing is still par for course, though minor corrections may be required as is normal in most of the cases.

So in my view, if I'm aesthetically inclined, and am willing to shell out a little more dough, it should be Sunny. But if I can accept the interiors and certain missing features (many of them I can easily do without) and am more focused on basic functionalities being in place, Etios is still the car for me.

Rest my case here.

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 29th September 2011 at 22:17.
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Old 30th September 2011, 09:01   #59
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
As far as I know, Toyota is not known to typically provide either great looking cars or great interiors for the segment. What it does provide though, considering reliability aspect as equal for all three Japanese majors, is user-friendly vehicles with emphasis on "Function over Form".
No questions - Completely Agree to this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
We also have the fact that Etios, from a well-entrenched brand in India, is priced lower than Nissan having hardly any brand recall. To what extent can we expect from Etios?
Well, I beg to disagree here. If you are taking about TV commercials, then yes quite a lot of them are seen pretty regularly. From what I have noticed among people (friends, neighbors, colleagues, etc..) - general car buying public (not enthusiasts like us) have heard of Dzire/Manza better. This might be Etios is pretty new, I can understand. Maybe the brand-building is still in process. Also I've hardly been spotting Etios'es on the road here in Bangalore (in-spite of the 2000+ combined bookings claimed by the dealerships when I bought it). This leads me to believe that the huge booking numbers / waitings they quoted might not be genuine. Of course, manufacturers do this to boost up the demand (New Ford Fiesta - supposed to have 2 months waiting but no cars seen on the road as mentioned by different TBHPians in different cities)

By the way, Qualis was/still is an awesome product by Toyota (typical form over function) and still command decent resale prices way after it's been discontinued. How many TV/Newspaper ads did we see for Qualis at that time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Even if you disregard this aspect, product to product, Nissan has messed up on the following functionalities (based on my understanding from the official review of Sunny):
  • Rear head room
  • Vague gearbox
  • Brake pedal feedback
  • Missing USB
  • Did Etios steal the storage spaces in cabin and glovebox?!
On the other hand, Etios has following advantages:
  • Superior engine performance and marginally better driveability
  • Established & respected A.S.S. of Toyota - Nissan is X-factor here
  • Lower turning radius
  • Bigger bootspace
Overall, I feel that Etios pricing is still par for course, though minor corrections may be required as is normal in most of the cases.

So in my view, if I'm aesthetically inclined, and am willing to shell out a little more dough, it should be Sunny. But if I can accept the interiors and certain missing features (many of them I can easily do without) and am more focused on basic functionalities being in place, Etios is still the car for me.

Rest my case here.


When you compare features 1:1 from Etios & Sunny, we'll find some subtle things like low end torque, engine performance, turning radius, etc better in Etios. Other things like rear A/C blower, dead pedal, ABS+EBD, etc. are available in the lower end Sunny XE (compared to Etios G which is pretty much priced similarly). Yes, the things available in the Etios are appreciated more by TBHP enthusiasts more than the aam-aadmi.

Do note that in the Indian market, we have a decent chunk of people being chauffeur driven (for them the drawbacks in Sunny might not matter) private cars. I believe Sunny is targeting them. Agree that only time will tell us about A.S.S, on-road--mileage and other nitty-gritty things about the Sunny.

Again, I'm not saying that Etios is functionally bad in anyway when it comes to comparison with Sunny. All I'm trying to put across is that the Etios is now turning up as an overpriced vehicle (for all the function + features it's offering) compared to the competition. Please take note of what happened with Honda's overpricing strategy (the reason I did not buy the Honda City in spite of it having the gem of an engine, fantastic ride quality, A.S.S, etc.. ). They got away too long fleecing the poor India customer until the Government (to the most extent) + Competition (to some extent) stepped in and jacked up Petrol prices. Now Jazz is VFM and TBHPians in other threads say City has still some margin for price correction. Our market is now mature and enough to decide which ends up being the winner.

Car market is more ruthless than the cellphone market (due to external factors like taxes, fuel prices, etc.) which change by the day and force the manufacturers to take decisions very quickly. As the new model/competition comes up the existing ones need to discount OR add more features to stay in the reckoning.

No offense guys, All the above is just my take !!
The coming month's sales numbers will all our speculations to rest.

Here are my request/suggestion to powertrain.
If you have the the luxury of time on your side, just wait till the beginning of next year.

1. You will get a new year model car (depreciation benefits) and Nissan D will be released by Nov-Dec (heard that Nissan is in pushing to launch Nissan D soon after being caught off-guard with the recent Rs.3/- petrol hike).
2. Depending on the sales numbers you might get some discounts on Etios D. Might not get any discounts on Etios D now since it's just been launched.

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Old 30th September 2011, 11:19   #60
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

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Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Where are you powertrain? You might be wondering that just now you've booked Etios and now this?!
I am right here,buddy !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda View Post

Here are my request/suggestion to powertrain.
If you have the the luxury of time on your side, just wait till the beginning of next year.

1. You will get a new year model car (depreciation benefits) and Nissan D will be released by Nov-Dec (heard that Nissan is in pushing to launch Nissan D soon after being caught off-guard with the recent Rs.3/- petrol hike).
2. Depending on the sales numbers you might get some discounts on Etios D. Might not get any discounts on Etios D now since it's just been launched.

I wish I could take your suggestion, Andro. Unfortunately I cannot cause,-
- I have booked Etios D after canceling 2 vehicles previously.If I cancel Etios, my wife's gonna divorce me !!!!
- I drive a Santro now. the way petrol prices are, it will negate any savings I might have over the Santro.
- There is no official statement as of when the Sunny D will be launched. I have heard that it will be launched at the 2012 Auto Expo. Let's say they take 1 month for delivery.That's a delay of 4-5 months. And I doubt that the Etios D will have discounts.

Here's why I chose Etios over Dzire :-
- Space & lots of it.
- T badge. Although I hope it does not find favour as a 'T'ourist car !!!
- Longer service intervals.
- Call me blind, but I feel the Etios looks better than Dzire.
-

Last edited by powertrain : 30th September 2011 at 11:36.
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