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Old 14th September 2011, 20:00   #1
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Default What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Guys, help me out on this -
I've booked an Dzire ZDi on Ganesh Chaturti. I was very happy with my decision, that's until the Etios D came to the party. And now I'm in a fix. Checked out the Etios yesterday & came out somewhat impressed. Somewhat, because they did'nt have the car for test drive. I will finalise only after I've test ridden it. But before that I would like to have bhpians opnion.

MY USAGE
- 12,000 KM TO 15,000 per year.
- 3 people max for 80% of time & 5 for the remaining period.
- Light luggage in boot.
- Highway : City usage = 60:40.
- Intend to keep it for the next 5 years.

MY PRIORITIES
- Abs & Airbags are a must.
- Great A.S.S
- Comfortable seats on long journeys.It will be self driven for the most part of it's life.
- Cheap/ Reasonable to maintain.

MY CONCERNS
- The Dzire will be discontinued early next year. I've seen reports of non avaliablity of spares for Baleno/Old Zen. Will the Dzire go the same way?? I had compromised on this aspect, but since I have a choice of Etios D, I'm having second thoughts.

- How are the spare prices of Toyota Etios ?? Will it burn my pockets?

- Is the engine noise that bad in Etios D ? Can anything be done about it?

- I'm basically looking at the G-D variant. Compared to Dzire Zdi , the Etios G-D[SP], loses 2 tangible things - Tacho & rear defogger. Although i'm OK losing the former, I have reservations regarding the latter. To be frank I have'nt used defogger on our Indigo much,But you never know?! Or should I stretch for the V-D ??
So there you have it Guys, I'm expecting a miracle in your answers!!!!

Thanks & Regards
Varun
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Old 14th September 2011, 20:36   #2
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Varun, my $0.02...

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post

MY PRIORITIES
- Abs & Airbags are a must.
- Great A.S.S
- Comfortable seats on long journeys.It will be self driven for the most part of it's life.
- Cheap/ Reasonable to maintain.
That is a good solid wishlist. IMHO both Maruti and Toyota will be able to live up to your expectations.

Quote:
MY CONCERNS
- The Dzire will be discontinued early next year. I've seen reports of non avaliablity of spares for Baleno/Old Zen. Will the Dzire go the same way?? I had compromised on this aspect, but since I have a choice of Etios D, I'm having second thoughts.
The 1st generation Swift and its sedan avatar have been selling around 15,000 units between them consistently over the past year or so. What on earth are you worried about?

Quote:
- How are the spare prices of Toyota Etios ?? Will it burn my pockets?
No firs-hand experience here, but why should they? I suspect Toyota prices its spares pretty competitively, especially in the Etios/Liva segment where it has started getting volumes.

Quote:
- Is the engine noise that bad in Etios D ? Can anything be done about it?
Diesels are clattery by nature but the Etios D review is rather charitable on this front. I don't think this should be a big issue- do take a TD before you buy, however.

Quote:
- I'm basically looking at the G-D variant. Compared to Dzire Zdi , the Etios G-D[SP], loses 2 tangible things - Tacho & rear defogger. Although i'm OK losing the former, I have reservations regarding the latter. To be frank I have'nt used defogger on our Indigo much,But you never know?! Or should I stretch for the V-D ??
Defogger is required in cool, wet climes. I've found the need for it in the heavy monssons we're having in Pune but to my disappointment the Vento's defogger isn't as good as what my 2000 Accent's used to be. I guess you can learn to live without it. I use the tacho pretty regularly, but since you say that's something you can live with, should be fine!

All the best
Anoop
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Old 14th September 2011, 21:43   #3
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Varun, as you stated, dzire is in its mid ages and may be discontinued sooner. Although spares should not be a problem. The Etios is a new product. I am sure they are here to stay. IMHO the car would not have a facelift or any changes for the next 3~4 years.
Also i feel that the comfort of the etios will be more than the dzire as it is a well designed hatch.
Personal opinions differ, but i would have gone for the etios.
If i had to go for a suzuki apart from the dzire, it would be the SX4.
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Old 14th September 2011, 21:54   #4
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Well here opinions can vary but If I were in your place than I would have definitely gone for the Etios D. There is no issue with Dzire except that it will be discontinued very soon. But Dzire has 7 horses more than Etios D but that will not matter much as power to weight ratio is almost same.

It is up to you now; if you want to own a car for next 5-7 years than go for Etios, if for a shorter period say 2-3 years than go for Dzire.
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Old 14th September 2011, 22:01   #5
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

This is a tough one. The Etios is an unproven product, more so the diesel, while i personally don't think much about the Dzire. You have mentioned that you will occasionally be taking 5 people in the car and i can tell you the 3 at the back are not going to be very happy.

From your posts looks like you have an Indigo, so you are familiar with Tata. If your rapport with your service centre is good (just in case the famous niggles crop up), I'd suggest the Manza. Its got loads of space, a more powerful diesel engine than the two cars you're considering, comes with the safety option and is light years ahead on the quality front compared to the last gen Indigo.

If you are serious about the Dzire, spare part availability is the last of your problems. I have an old Zen and MASS are pretty well stocked. Even parts like the timing belt cover were in stock.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 14th September 2011 at 22:04.
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Old 15th September 2011, 05:11   #6
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

I would recommend stick to the Desire, the concerns around it being discontinued are not rightly placed. Like spare part availability and support should not be a problem for next 10-15 years at the minimum.

Etios also is a good car but the cost cutting does put off some folks, do go to a showroom and check yourself (and for this reason i would stick to Desire if i was you. Also Etios is an unproven car on Indian roads. As far as pricing of repairs is concerned i am sure Toyota have done their homework.
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Old 15th September 2011, 07:55   #7
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Dzire - I don't think the rumours about Dzire being discontinued in a year are true (the new model will be a sub-4 metre car but that's to get the small car benefit as per the government's definition) - it's a very successful entry level sedan and I don't believe it will go away so quickly. Remember how long MSIL actually took to phase the Esteem out ? Parts and service also should not be a concern at all since it's Maruti.
Etios - new to the market, not proven yet. Lots of reviews on TBHP and other sites mention cheap plastics, etc (cost cutting is very evident). There are even some posts/threads about folks complaining about Etios - engine sound, water entering cabin during rains, etc so you may want to really check/confirm all of this. Can't comment too much on parts but I know that Toyota's service credentials are good.

I own a Dzire petrol and couple of friends have Dzire D's and I know for sure that both variants are good. In my opinion, a minor drawback is:
Initially, you don't get a lot of confidence when backing up the car (reversing) since you don't get a very clear view of the rear. This is caused by the thick C-Pillars and position of the boot. I got a Red Soul reverse sensor fixed to take care of this (camera might be a better choice).
Don't want to seem biased towards Dzire, but I don't have first-hand knowledge about Etios in these departments - ground clearance, excellent driver seat position, nice steering, etc are all positives with the Dzire.

Take TD's of both cars, calrify/verify all grey areas, do a good comparison and then make your own decision, you will feel much happier later.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by NPV : 15th September 2011 at 08:01.
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Old 15th September 2011, 08:30   #8
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

When did Maruti ever speak of discontinuing the Dzire? And for the matter of spare parts, I am still able to get parts for my 20 years old M800, please rest assured so will be the case for the Dzire for atleast for the next 10-15 years if not longer!

@Varun,
If you are fine with the looks of the Dzire, then continue with your booking. That is the best car for you. The Etios-D might be a new car; and Toyota after-sales service might be as good as Maruti, but what it still can't match is the extensive reach of Maruti to all the nooks and corners of the country.

Only concern with the Dzire w.r.t. to your priorities is the seats (especially back) aren't the best in the segment (try out the Manza, you'll understand).

Also I'm assuming you are fine with the waiting period of the Dzire. If you go for Etios D immediately, you might be one of the early birds, but expect the waiting periods to go up for the Etios too.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 15th September 2011 at 08:34.
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Old 15th September 2011, 08:56   #9
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
Guys, help me out on this -
I've booked an Dzire ZDi on Ganesh Chaturti. I was very happy with my decision, that's until the Etios D came to the party. And now I'm in a fix.

Varun

The Maruti Swift DZire is a popular car (and shares a lot of parts with the more popular Maruti Swift hatchback) on the streets and so you can find parts for it rather easily. Pretty much any workshop would carry spares for it and you can find Maruti Authorized Service Stations even in the smaller towns! You may need to get after-market seat fittings or at least well-shaped padding if you want to have comfort because the rear seats on the Swift and Swift DZire have a bench-like feeling. However, the DZire does easily fit five adults comfortably. The DZire does not have the looks but it definitely is a VFM purchase.

The Toyota Etios comes from the Toyota stable and is popular for its diesel engine. However, with serious cost-cutting, quality has been known to suffer too. The gaskets around the doors and windows on the Etios tend to leak. The noise level in the cabin is high (and very noticable after a ride in the Maruti Swift DZire) but is something you would eventually learn to ignore.

Maruti still has parts available for the old Zen. I should know because my 2004 Maruti Esteem Di shares a lot of parts with the old Maruti Zen Di (the pre-International Zen, yup it's that old). The service station may take a day longer for repairs of uncommon parts but just one day in a year is not too big of a deal.

The defogger is not really a necessity in our climate. The only time my rear window and windshield need a defogger is whenever it rains... and the air conditioning does a pretty good job of getting the glass clear again. You can also get a 3M spray for the purpose.
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Old 15th September 2011, 08:56   #10
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Everybody is so convinced of the glaring cost cutting and shoddy material used in the Etios. what we don't realise is that we are saying this because we are used to seeing the innovas and the Altis. But if you compare the Etios head on with Dzire, does it still has those faults?

As far as the water leaking issue is there, lets put it to rest because the incident that everyone refers to is happened with a non bhpian whose credibility is under doubt. A lot of Etios owners are there on TBHP and the general feeling about the car is good amongst all of them.

Some people also mentioned the glaring engine sound in the Etios. I havent driven it but I recently drove the Dzire for a week. And the engine sound was pretty much evident in that too. Diesel engines do make some sound. Moreover Vid mentioned in his review that engine sound increases after 3000rpm. But the fun of driving a diesel engine is to keep it around 1800-2500 rpm righ where all that torque lays. I drive a Innova from last 6 years and I have never seen my car go beyond 2500 rpm except the highways may be.

All in all this is a tough choice. Both brands are great in terms of reliability.
Looks wise etios wind any day over the Dzire. Also I am not too comfortable with the famous rattles that plague maruti cars.
Take a TD of both cars and go for whichever your heart wants. You cannot go wrong with either. Although my personal suggestion will be Etios because of slightly better interior space, better looking then the Dzire and less common on the road. Dzires and Swifts are like present on every corner, every signal..

Last edited by drmohitg : 15th September 2011 at 09:00.
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Old 15th September 2011, 09:04   #11
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
I was very happy with my decision, that's until the Etios D came to the party.
Toyota has skimped on a lot of basic essential stuff for the Etios/ Liva' in the name of cost cutting, which hasn't left a lot of satisfied owners. You might want to check these out before buying Etios-

my-toyota-etios-sedan-homepage

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
MY USAGE
- 12,000 KM TO 15,000 per year.
- 3 people max for 80% of time & 5 for the remaining period.
- Light luggage in boot.
- Highway : City usage = 60:40.
- Intend to keep it for the next 5 years.

MY PRIORITIES
- Abs & Airbags are a must.
- Great A.S.S
- Comfortable seats on long journeys.It will be self driven for the most part of it's life.
- Cheap/ Reasonable to maintain.
Why not the new Swift diesel instead of DZire diesel? Anyways, you dont need the additional boot space. Its a newer generation product, better build quality, better interiors, looks better (Personal opinion though) and will be easier to handle in the city as well.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 15th September 2011 at 09:06.
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Old 15th September 2011, 09:25   #12
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

You have quite the dilemma here.

Are you hell-bent on owning and driving a diesel car? If not, I suggest you check out some petrol alternatives too. Since 12,000-15,000 is not too much to justify a diesel car purchase, but at the same time, it's quite a lot of distance to cover for a petrol. It's some where in between.

The cars in question aren't the best you've selected, IMO. The Dzire is at the fag-end of its life, and it isn't the car I'd recommend right now. The Etios is a good car. Toyota reliability is a good thing, but the 'made-for-India' tag that the Etios comes with is a real put-off.

The reason why I suggest you buy a hatch is because there are some great premium hatchbacks available today that fall in the same price bracket. The VW Polo, the Skoda Fabia, the Fiat Punto and the Honda Jazz are all wonderful and desirable cars. All of them have respectable highway manners and decent boot-space that you would be content with.

If you don't mind checking out a petrol car, then the Jazz would fit the bill perfectly. Great FE of 15-20 km/liter is expected in mixed-driving conditions. It packs quite a boot too, and can rival some C Segment sedans. It's a comfortable car too and can notch up the miles quite easily. Hondas are not too expensive to maintain either.

If it's a diesel car, do check out the Fabia 1.2. The engine is a bit wheezy and lacks grunt, but can do the job. The Fabia is a great mile-muncher and is even better than the Jazz. It's more composed over long distances and also has a good boot. And the diesel should be quite frugal too.

The Ford Figo is a good car too. Has the space and comfort and packs a good boot as well. The diesel is adequately powerful and quite frugal, and the car has good highway manners. After-sales-service may not be as good as Honda or Maruti, but there are several people who are content with their Figos, especially on Team BHP. Be warned, some have had bad experiences too.

All the best!

Last edited by suhaas307 : 15th September 2011 at 09:26.
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Old 15th September 2011, 09:57   #13
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Toyota has skimped on a lot of basic essential stuff for the Etios/ Liva' in the name of cost cutting, which hasn't left a lot of satisfied owners. You might want to check these out before buying Etios-

my-toyota-etios-sedan-homepage
With all due respect, please tell me how do you honestly feel about that above URL? I just visited it and its just a load of crap. My observations:
1. You start a similar site for any car in the Indian market today right from the Alto to the Mercedes. You will find innumerable people who will have problems with there cars. Many of them are just arm chair critics.
2. Here are some problems posted on that site which should give you an idea of the kind of people I just referred to:
-My car was dirty at the time of delivery with plastic covers missing - Car fault? Go fight with the Dealer!
-I discovered the next day that only 1 reverse light is working -
-The rubber gaskets are missing from the doors due to which water seeps in and so do insects, lizards and rats - OMG! Seriously rubber gaskets keep the lizards out of your car? I feel sorry for the owner.

The list goes on. The site has started hosting a lot of adds as I see. Kudos to the guy who runs the site. He just came out with a fantastic idea to make some quick money.

Please I sincerely request everyone to read the stuff being posted on that above URL properly and draw your own conclusions. We have another thread dedicated to that URL. I will anyday trust Tbhp owners and there reviews rather than this guy.

I am in no way trying to defend Toyota or anything. The whole idea is to not to make a wrong decision based on this guys site. Do read it for atleast 10-15 minutes before drawing your conclusions.

Edit: here is another guy and his master piece from the same site. Sorry if its offtopic but I just felt it might help in establishing if these faults with Etios are real or not, So mods please don't delete this.
Quote:
The engine of the Etios produces a lot of noise which is not at all expected from a luxury car that is Etios. Other cars in the same range and of the same class have a lot better engines, in the noise department. I have experienced the comfort of other cars and after driving them, I honestly feel that I have settled for a lot lesser than I could have got had I gone for another car, like the Swift Dzire or the Honda City. I am a Doctor, and after looking at the noise levels produced by the engine, all the talk about the comfort of the Etios go down the drain.Any noise higher than 20DB is harmful for the human ear if heard continuously. That again harms the ear, since the continuous noise produced by the Etios’ engine is up to that level.

Being a Doctor myself, I can say that the vibrations of the etios are far higher as compared to other cars, and this cannot be blamed on the 1.5 L engine of the etios, as cars in the same as well as other classes do not have such vibrations in them. These vibrations reduce the comfort factor of the Etios to a great extent, and are also harmful considering the ergonomics of the human body. Every chair manufacturer, every office nowadays is focussing on the ergonomics of their employees and customers. Looking at that, a car is supposed to be luxurious and comfortable for the customer as the owner spends much more of his time driving in the car.

Last edited by drmohitg : 15th September 2011 at 10:04. Reason: Text added
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:31   #14
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Well, I never thought I would say this, but the Manza Elan is way ahead of the Dzire. Definitely in terms of space and comfort but also in terms of overall look and feel. At least in the TD cars; forget how the SA behaved or answered questions.

No offence meant, but my preference list would be Manza Elan > Etios > Dzire if you are only considering these three cars.

Of course if you would like to bring in other cars and petrol options into this discussion that would be opening a new box.

Last edited by selfdrive : 15th September 2011 at 10:32.
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Old 15th September 2011, 10:45   #15
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Default Re: What do I do - Dzire D or Etios D ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
MY CONCERNS
- The Dzire will be discontinued early next year. I've seen reports of non avaliablity of spares for Baleno/Old Zen. Will the Dzire go the same way?? I had compromised on this aspect, but since I have a choice of Etios D, I'm having second thoughts.
I disagree with the availability of spares with old Zen. They were readily available at any MASS. Cant comment anything about Baleno.

IMO Etios offer more space than the Dzire. Not just more much more. Infact there is no competetion.
Not sure how the etios diesel drives, but Dzire is not that bad. If you can wait for a few more months, you can get hold of the new Dzire, which is supposed to have the Swift's interior.

As for your requirements, may be Etios is a better deal since you intend to travel loaded.
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