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Old 8th March 2006, 18:21   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
You probably are mistaking quality engineering for enginering design.
My mistake. What I meant was engineering design.
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Old 8th March 2006, 19:35   #32
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@ jkdas dont quite remember but i thin it was the overdrive websit.. ran a search on google
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Old 8th March 2006, 19:40   #33
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@xcentric.. fords are not too popular in the fuel effn stakes as has been mentioned earlier quality isnt that great.. as for the accent gls my personal opinion is stay clear of them.. outdated engines bad effn but service is said to be pretty good.. go for a new gen vehicle makes resale a lil easier.. accents are poor on resale.. btw have u thought of second hand cars?? for bombay its a good idea judgin by the way cars gat dinged in these traffic conds.
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Old 8th March 2006, 23:24   #34
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
Shelf life ? Are we talking dairy products here ?
aseem, all you have to say about the Baleno are good things (no problems, great engine, good FE, great great car etc), but then you still don't recommend it. Instead you recommend the Fiesta just on the basis of being a new car. Is that a crucial parameter while deciding to plonk 6L odd rupees of hard-earned money ? While being a new car has a few pluses, does it not carry with it unknown risks also which could surface only later ?
Agree that the rear of the Baleno couldn't get any uglier. But then, I did not find the Fiesta to be a paradigm of beauty too ? What's so great about the Fiesta's rear, buddy ? And, when it comes to the factors that will really matter in the long run like performance, low maintenance, FE etc, there is no way a Ford can beat a Jap car.
Well if you know marketing, than all products have a shelf life. Thats why manufacturers keep bringing new models, even if they have no new technology to offer, they still come out with a newer look, as people get bored of seeing the same car.
If you would have asked me in 1980's, pre Zen era, than I would have said buy a Maruti 800. It had everything going for it, better FE, lower cost of ownership, cheaper spares, great engine etc. However when Zen and Santro came in the 90's everyone sold their 800 and graduated to Zens and Santros.... Why? They were higher priced, had higher cost of ownership, were not tried and tested, and had a lower FE. The people moved to the newer cars as they were more current with the times and had newer technology, look and appeal.
Now just as I cant advise someone to buy an Esteem today, even though, Esteems have low cost of ownership, great FE, good engine, cheap sapres etc. similarly I cant advise anyone to go for Baleno. Its ugly, its old, it doesnt have any modern safety features including ABS or airbags, and it wont hold its resale in the longer run, as it would be replaced in the near term by a new product.
Just like Petra is a great car, but it would be stupid to buy it. Similarly it would be stupid to buy Baleno at the present time, 3 years ago, it would have been a very good buy.
Lastly, as your name suggests, you own a Baleno. So of course your logic and judgement is clouted by the car you own. We all are very possesive about the vehicles we own and dont want to hear anything bad about them. Your vehicle is not bad, its just dated. Its a fact, not an opinion!
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Old 8th March 2006, 23:53   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrag
Totally and to be taken in a lighter vein.

Aseem - I can't believe you're against somebody buying the Baleno. A few months ago, the Baleno was the answer to everything in your posts.



http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/137538-post52.html
See the qoute about the shelf life of Zen came true, they have stopped production of Zen. A guy who would have bought Santro on my advise would be happy. And this doesnt mean that Zen is a bad car, on the contrary its a great car, however it was simply toooo old!

Lastly I have nothing against Baleno, or buying a Baleno. Its not my money, so I really dont care. However a forum is a place where everyone can come and voice their opinions. Baleno lovers vouch for Baleno, as a neutral person, its my duty to highlight to the prespective buyer that even though Baleno is a great car, but its really old. Its upto the person whose advise he takes.
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Old 9th March 2006, 00:32   #36
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Hrag, i too remember the times when aseem used to recomend the Baleno like anything. Common SupremeBaleno, Aseem is a known critic who i feel just likes to go against everyone in the forum. No offence meant aseem bhai.

Coming back to the discussion, i would suggest you to go for the Baleno. Bottom line is that IMHO, Baleno is a better car than the Fiesta.

If resale value is a concern then knowing ford and how their sales go, i wouldnt be suprised if the fiesta sales will dwindle shortly just like how the ikon sales were on fire when it was launched and within a year or so the numbers dropped which also affected the Resale of the car. Just to give you an example even a 2000 model esteem sells for a much higher price than the ikon (2000) (even though ikon is a whole decade newer than the esteem). By this i mean to say is that even though the baleno is a generation older than the Fiesta but maybe 3-5 years down the line a Baleno will surely fetch a better resale than the Fiesta.

Also with a Baleno you have the peace of mind coz its a Maruti which you will never get with a ford. Go for the Baleno dude, its a gem of a car .

Cheers

Last edited by prince85 : 9th March 2006 at 00:37.
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Old 9th March 2006, 00:57   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prince85
Hrag, i too remember the times when aseem used to recomend the Baleno like anything. Common SupremeBaleno, Aseem is a known critic who i feel just likes to go against everyone in the forum. No offence meant aseem bhai.
No offense taken, however I am not stating what I m stating for the sake of argument. And trust me, everyone is not buying a Baleno, look around you, and see how many you see.
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Old 9th March 2006, 11:56   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
Well if you know marketing, than all products have a shelf life.
Looks like it is you who needs a lesson in marketing.
As per Wikipedia,
"Shelf life is the length of time that corresponds to a tolerable loss in quality of a [COLOR=#0000ff]processed food[/COLOR] and other perishable items."

See the dairy connection ? Shelf life indicates that beyond that period, the product could diminish in quality. A car does not become bad just because it has been in the market for a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
If you would have asked me in 1980's, pre Zen era, than I would have said buy a Maruti 800. It had everything going for it, better FE, lower cost of ownership, cheaper spares, great engine etc. However when Zen and Santro came in the 90's everyone sold their 800 and graduated to Zens and Santros.... Why? They were higher priced, had higher cost of ownership, were not tried and tested, and had a lower FE. The people moved to the newer cars as they were more current with the times and had newer technology, look and appeal.
I have been using cars since the 80s, M800 era that you mention. As far as car buying logic goes, identify your needs and buy the car that matches it. Do you think no one is buying M800s anymore after 23 years of their launch in India? If so, Maruti would have discontinued the model. If my needs are a small car, great FE, low and cheap maintenance, good A.S.S, I would still go for an M800 today.

This is Xentric's call and his money. He mentioned his needs and limitations. Budget of 6.5L is the constraint, within which he needs a car with looks and FE. Within these parameters, I find the Baleno a good match due to which I recommended it. Looks are subjective. You think a Baleno is ugly - this is a democracy and everyone is entitled to their opinion, however stupid it might be. But there are others (very few, though) who think it is a looker. And there are still others like me, who know that it is not exactly a good looking car from behind, but does not qualify to be called ugly. Anyway, the rear of the Baleno will be seen only by others, when Baleno drivers leave them far behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
Now just as I cant advise someone to buy an Esteem today, even though, Esteems have low cost of ownership, great FE, good engine, cheap sapres etc. similarly I cant advise anyone to go for Baleno. Its ugly, its old, it doesnt have any modern safety features including ABS or airbags, and it wont hold its resale in the longer run, as it would be replaced in the near term by a new product.
Let's not bring Esteem into this bcos it is another nice car, if your needs match what it has to offer.

[/quote] Lastly, as your name suggests, you own a Baleno. So of course your logic and judgement is clouted by the car you own. We all are very possesive about the vehicles we own and dont want to hear anything bad about them. Your vehicle is not bad, its just dated. Its a fact, not an opinion! [/quote]
I do own a Baleno and having used it for 1 year, I know that the FE is pretty good in its class (NHC might be more FE, but then it costs another 1.5L atleast). Have done no maintenance in a year except for the free services for which all I was charged was for oil/filter change, so I know that maintenance is low. This is why I recommended the Baleno, not because I own one.

And BTW, I don't give a rat's a** if it is dated, as long as it is a better car. If I were a guy who buys a car, sells it after 1-2 years, buys another one, then resale value could be an issue with Baleno. I don't plan to sell it for atleast 6-8 years. And this is not an empty claim. My 1st car was sold after 19 years, the 2nd car is still with me after 7 years.
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Old 9th March 2006, 11:58   #39
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Aseem, just curious as to what car you own/use ?
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Old 9th March 2006, 12:30   #40
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Wow. Despite the abundant use of smilies, this is getting pretty heated. Also, I think it's going off topic.

Baleno to me is:

1. Good performance
2. Good fuel efficiency
3. Good after sales service
4. Lower cost of maintenance

But it is also:

1. Old
2. Not very good looking
3. Very low badge value (no prestiege)
4. Crudely put together (no offense to all the Baleno lovers, but the car felt very cheap to me, as if lots of corners had been cut to bring down the price. This is what put me off buying one)

In the end I guess it depends on what you want out of your car.
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Old 9th March 2006, 12:38   #41
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Agree that we are getting quite off topic. I apologize, guys.
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Old 9th March 2006, 12:45   #42
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Hey SupremeBaleno... I have been watching this heated thing going on between you and aseem. And I know you are pretty fired up. I just decided to intervene because you seem to have got that "shelf-life" word straight jacketed, probably based on some bookish definition (wikipedia?!). Well the fact is Aseem is definitely right... Shelf life is a regular marketing word... Anything and everything which is out to be sold has a shelf life... This is the time after which people will start ignoring the product. You will need to come out with a replacement for it. Why product, even an advertisement campaign may get dated over a period of time (say the original Nirma adv) and then it can be safely said that it is over its shelf life. You can not go by the plain simple bookish definition of things. I felt it necessary to call it a halt as I myself am a B-school product with international marketing as a specialization subject. So it offended my sensibility when you said that Aseem is the one who seems to need a lesson in marketing and then went ahead quoting a bookish definition (which is the generic definition) to support your verbal assault.

Now carry on with your arguments guys
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Old 9th March 2006, 13:17   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
Hey SupremeBaleno... I have been watching this heated thing going on between you and aseem. And I know you are pretty fired up. I just decided to intervene because you seem to have got that "shelf-life" word straight jacketed, probably based on some bookish definition (wikipedia?!).
OK, let me get you a marketing definition for that term. And since your specialisation is "Int'l Marketing", let me quote from what the American Marketing Association has to say,

shelf life - The length of time a product can safely remain in storage between production and consumption. After this period, deterioration makes the product unfit for sale and/or consumption. Virtually every good has a shelf life, but services (if totally intangible) do not. Shelf life is not related to product obsolescence.

See, shelf life is not the same thing as product obsolescence, which was my point. This term is about stuff that has been produced and is sitting on the shelves of the seller. A car that remains in the dealers warehouse will not get bad - it only gets dated. And both terms are not the same, is what I meant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
Well the fact is Aseem is definitely right... Shelf life is a regular marketing word... Anything and everything which is out to be sold has a shelf life...
I never said that shelf-life is not part of marketing lexicon. I was pointing out that it was different from dated-ness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo
I felt it necessary to call it a halt as I myself am a B-school product with international marketing as a specialization subject. So it offended my sensibility when you said that Aseem is the one who seems to need a lesson in marketing and then went ahead quoting a bookish definition (which is the generic definition) to support your verbal assault.
We do not necessarily need to hold a degree in any stream of knowledge to know the basics. And BTW, I also have a PGDiploma in Marketing, if that helps.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 9th March 2006 at 13:21.
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Old 9th March 2006, 13:28   #44
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i am sorry to say aseem, but i see alot more balenos than the fiestas registered after the later half of 2005 and early 2006 atleast in mumbai. Sorry buddy
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Old 9th March 2006, 13:46   #45
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Supreme Baleno, if my memory serves me right, then aseem uses a 2003/4 esteem and 2005 swift zxi
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