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Old 20th January 2012, 12:34   #16
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

I know some people who have spend 2 lacs rupees in 3 yrs on maintenance for a Fiesta. Fiesta what I heard goes on fine for say 3-4 yrs or 80k kms. After that the FORD ghost comes in. Iam not saying big failures or parts, but maintenance IS HIGH.

And despite the new Chennai Ford plant, what some fiesta owners tell me is that the Figo like cheaply priced parts is not applicable for Fiesta. Fiesta's go for service and come out as killers! Fiesta still, is attributed as a rich mans car.

Now that Fiesta Classic is coming out in very high numbers in Taxi market, very soon it will attain a Taxi image. Manza is not into Taxi for some reason. Strange!

Manza owners who have run more than 50-60k on their Qjt's can throw some light on Manza's long term durability and maintenance costs. If that is fine, I mean atleast 60% close to what Swift Qjt had acheived, then my gut feeling for now is that Manza might have an upper hand over the Fiesta Classic.

In terms of space, Fiesta Classic in the era of Esteem's and Accents. Rear is not roomy by any standards, nor the leg room. But then a USP of Fiesta is that it can be driven like a hatchback and parked like a hatcback since it is very compact.

PS: Some sense of urgency is there in this decision for me since I feel I wont get the 5 lacs tag for my Swift D for long. Currently the high demand in Used car segment for Swift D is attributed to the long waiting periods. My Original ex-showroom price was 4.9 lacs. So quite a deal if I close it at 5 lacs after 1.5 yrs or use and 27000 odd kms.

Last edited by sam_sant2005 : 20th January 2012 at 12:38.
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Old 20th January 2012, 12:45   #17
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Unhappy Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
I know some people who have spend 2 lacs rupees in 3 yrs on maintenance for a Fiesta. Fiesta what I heard goes on fine for say 3-4 yrs or 80k kms. After that the FORD ghost comes in. Iam not saying big failures or parts, but maintenance IS HIGH
Whoa either you have got wrong information or you are exxagerating. In my two years of Fiesta usage the total amount spent on maintenance till date is around 15K max which includes the Right OVRM replacement too. This I am sure is at par with other sedans in the category.

Quote:
Now that Fiesta Classic is coming out in very high numbers in Taxi market, very soon it will attain a Taxi image. Manza is not into Taxi for some reason. Strange!
I am yet to see a Fiesta taxi in Mumbai/Thane not on Meru/Easycabs atleast. Private tourist taxis maybe.

Quote:
In terms of space, Fiesta Classic in the era of Esteem's and Accents. Rear is not roomy by any standards, nor the leg room. But then a USP of Fiesta is that it can be driven like a hatchback and parked like a hatcback since it is very compact.
You got that right IMO.
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Old 20th January 2012, 12:57   #18
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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Although Manza has oodles of space and back seat comfort it fails in handling and performance where Fiesta scores over it. Although the engine in Manza is same as Swift it has been tuned differently for the Tata's hence expecting swift like perfomance in manza is not correct. Also the niggles in Manza are too hard to be accepted. For that peace of mind Fiesta is the right choice.
Wanted to clarify a point. Performance, yes you might be right, but I felt better low speed drivability for Manza when I did my test drive. Swift kind of jerks in 2nd gear @15-25kmph. but Manza was smooth. 15 extra horses did make a difference I felt. But again, gears are slotting good in a new Manza, but after say 50k kms, I really donno what will happen to those.

I test drove a Petrol Manza which had done 15000kms and it was HORRIBLE. Gears, engine, electricals everything was bad. Yeh brutally abused during TD's. But if you drive a similar Swift/Dzire TD car you will know what engine and gearbox quality and durability means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Whoa either you have got wrong information or you are exxagerating. In my two years of Fiesta usage the total amount spent on maintenance till date is around 15K max which includes the Right OVRM replacement too. This I am sure is at par with other sedans in the category.
It is a guy who drove 1 lac plus in 3 yrs. I too have friends who have no issues with Fiesta but haven't driven much. Hardly 30-40k in 3 yrs say. Agree that generally Fiesta is good but odd cases parts failures are there. A/c coil 10000rs is a common failure replacement I have known. And no one can deny that Fiesta will call for really pocket burning experience after 5 yrs for a normal user who is expected to hit 1 lac kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I am yet to see a Fiesta taxi in Mumbai/Thane not on Meru/Easycabs atleast. Private tourist taxis maybe.
Bangalore has LOTS.



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Old 20th January 2012, 13:08   #19
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
It is a guy who drove 1 lac plus in 3 yrs. I too have friends who have no issues with Fiesta but haven't driven much. Hardly 30-40k in 3 yrs say. Agree that generally Fiesta is good but odd cases parts failures are there. A/c coil 10000rs is a common failure replacement I have known. And no one can deny that Fiesta will call for really pocket burning experience after 5 yrs for a normal user who is expected to hit 1 lac kms.



Bangalore has LOTS.

Sam, its your choice here.
The manza suits you to a tee, but the numbers youre giving out are not correct.
Ac coil is 4k at ford.
Its not a common failure as far as all the fiesta owners i have met at harpreet are concerned.
Just a couple of comparo's for you.
Front brake pads at ford:1300 rs.
Front shocks set: 4000 rs.

wear and tear part.

and yeah, I am closer to 1L,around 85k.
5 year old car.

Last edited by mayankk : 20th January 2012 at 13:25.
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Old 20th January 2012, 13:21   #20
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

I'd err on the side of a Fiesta than a Manza. Agreed, DDiS clocks 200k + kms, will the Manza be there to hold the engine, that's rather doubtful. If you can live with niggles and rough edges here and there then go for the Manza, but after using a Swift it may be difficult to reconcile with a Manza.

Last edited by Durango Dude : 20th January 2012 at 13:27.
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Old 20th January 2012, 13:58   #21
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Would recommend the manza anyday over the Fiesta diesel. Fiesta is a sluggish engine and in terms of space is far behind. I myself own a vista and 3 yrs 35000 Kms has not changed anything. Engine still runs smooth and there are no rattles or squeaks. It all depends on how you maintain the vehicle. Also one thing that can be assured about tata is the spare cost - its outright low and very affordable. You realize how important this is when you have to replace a part - be it a bumper or a wheel cap. Do a comparison of these and see the difference.
From your responses I think you are already sold on the Manza - go ahead with it, you wont regret it for sure.
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Old 20th January 2012, 14:14   #22
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

As somebody who owns a Manza QJD and who has driven the swift DDiS extensively. I did not find the performance of the Manza lacking. The gearshift is notchy, but then the rest of the powertrain - engine, clutch etc are great. (that comment about the clutch came from a Maruti Suzuki R&D guy) there is the turbo lag though - something which can be annoying and fun as well. annoying in the city, but fun in the highway while whooshing past trucks etc.

The rest of the car is well discussed here, spacious interiors, great seats, some iffy plastics - around steering column, door handles, etc; features like bluetooth enabled audio is pretty cool, well lit cabin. Overall I think the cabin of the manza tries to make you feel special instead of being utilitarian like etios and to some extent the fiesta.

The fiesta on its own is an excellent car - typical for characteristics of handling and feel. The engine is great as well, esp in the city. Its a well engineered product that despite a newer successor can stand on its own. That says something about the car.

I cant comment on the service costs of both the cars - the Manza has done only 7.5K kms and I do not own any ford vehicle.

Take another serious test drive, probably with family and friends, try a longer distance with both the cars and I think you should get it right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post

I am yet to see a Fiesta taxi in Mumbai/Thane not on Meru/Easycabs atleast. Private tourist taxis maybe.
Taxi Coimbatore|Luxury Car Rental Coimbatore|Taxi Taxi
Initially I was happy that they went in only for Fiestas - Soon they have taken in lots of Manza's as well.
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Old 20th January 2012, 14:14   #23
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I own a Swift Diesel currently and planning to upgrade to a sedan FOR WANT OF COMFORT.
This statement makes it easy. The Manza it is.

But if you're smitten by the FTD characteristics of the Ford and finding it hard to let go, the Fiesta Classic with appropriate tyres (say Michelin Primacy LC or Yoko C drives) will be a good choice as well. The ride comfort will be much better than that of the old Swift.

But Manza on comfort oriented tyres will be a different league altogether. I haven't helped, have I?

Edit: Oops! Michelin Primacy LC is available only in 15" right? You may have to look at other options then. Stay 14" on the Fiesta.

Last edited by deetjohn : 20th January 2012 at 14:18. Reason: Adding text.
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Old 20th January 2012, 14:23   #24
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

I do not know about ford fiesta. I want comment on Fiat engine implementation in Tata Vista.
My Vista QJD has completed 70000 kms in three years. My car is from very first batch of vistas. Everything is going great, engine response is not showing any sign of aging. NVH levels are great compared to my friends swift. And over the time gear shifts are becoming smooth.

Only small niggles, like power window switches and AC switches broken or not working have appeared. These problems were rectified without any hesitation. Car is still holding good, as of new though it has been used by me and my dad and some relatives.

Spare parts are cheaper compared to any other car.

But what Vista misses compared to figo... a driver's delight. I do not know why but I love figo over swift for fun to drive.

I am no expert in sedans but looking at manza comfort and interior feeling, I will suggest Manza. And Manza is better handler on road compared to Swift Dezire.

It's matter of your heart. I would like to assure you, You will not go wrong with Manza. Go with your heart, whatever it is Manza or Fiesta.

Last edited by sushantr5 : 20th January 2012 at 14:26.
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Old 20th January 2012, 14:55   #25
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sant2005 View Post
I own a Swift Diesel currently and planning to upgrade to a sedan FOR WANT OF COMFORT. Swift rear suspension to me, is horrible. But my budget doesnt allow me to stretch much beyond 8 lacs ONROAD.
You want to upgrade to sedan for want of comfort. What makes you think that a sedan necessarily offers greater ride / seating comfort as compared to a hatchback?

Regarding your specific decision dilemma on Manza vs. Fiesta
- Why is Fiesta even in contention with almost similar level of ride discomfort that you want to get away from?
- Manza ride is great in city, but gets uncomfortable on uneven Indian highways due to soft suspension setup. Still, it's a marvellous chauffeur driven car - what with that sofa on the rear.

Verito and Etios offer best overall ride comfort in the segment, but are ruled out.

Why not look at premium hatches, unless you really need a lot of boot space, especially the New Swift, which now has greatly improved ride quality, or i20, that also offers pliant ride in city conditions? These cars also come with superior reliability and A.S.S. promise.

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 20th January 2012 at 15:07.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:16   #26
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

sam_sant2005,

So you want-
1. Comfort of a Manza combined with Fiesta's dynamics
2. Should be cheap to maintain
3. Should be a sedan

A wild idea! How about a Figo? True that it's not a sedan but after having owned Esteem for over 8 years, I find my Figo to be as complete as a sedan. Sedan like comfort and boot space!

You might hate the idea of switching from Swift to a Figo but how about a TD of Figo to find out?
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:22   #27
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Mine is 6 years old Fiesta Diesel and I bought it as a used car at 43K, now it is completed more than 67k. I've spent around 25-30K so far in terms maintenance in 2 years ownership. Buy fiesta, definitely you will not regret it.
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Old 20th January 2012, 15:25   #28
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

5L for a 2010 Swift LDI? How much did you buy the car for? As a Fiesta 1.6 P owner I'm extremely jealous

I'd ask you to widen your shopping list.

The Fiesta TDCi is a fantastic workhorse but aint it tooooo old?!

The Manza - I'm still not convinced that TATA has got the fit n finish right. Did you like to drive it?

Last edited by kiku007 : 20th January 2012 at 15:28.
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Old 20th January 2012, 16:10   #29
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
5L for a 2010 Swift LDI? How much did you buy the car for? As a Fiesta 1.6 P owner I'm extremely jealous

I'd ask you to widen your shopping list.

The Fiesta TDCi is a fantastic workhorse but aint it tooooo old?!

The Manza - I'm still not convinced that TATA has got the fit n finish right. Did you like to drive it?

My buying price was 5.85 OTR Blr. But please note that the 'dealer' quoted price is 5 lacs straight. I am sure outside i can get more but thinking of hassles not going. THAT IS SWIFT MAN! Only car in the world like this probably!
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Old 20th January 2012, 18:33   #30
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Default Re: Tata Manza 1.3 Qjt OR Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi

Am not a car expert, but thought of chipping in with my views as well. I had a Ford Fusion Petrol which i sold to buy a Tata Manza Quadraject, both pre-owned.

My Manza ownership log is here -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ned-manza.html (Korean, American and now Indian - Our pre-owned Manza)

In this, i primarily have focused on the negatives/niggles as the positives by-and-large are very well known to all - space and comfort. When buying the diesel, i did consider both the Figo and the Fiesta (and still hope to sell my Petrol Santro and pick up a Fusion TDCi).


My observations (based on my Fusion and Manza ownership experience + test drives)

1. The ford build quality was awesome. Felt like a nice-heavy vehicle that was built to last. The Manza in comparison is obviously not much fun to drive. Not very low on the scale, but not close to the Ford. Obvious fact, just repeating.

2. If the Fusion was still around, would have recommended that. If you want Fun-to-drive + space, why look at anything else. Anything else would be a compromise.

3. The Fiesta is cramped. Honestly if i want to upgrade from a hatch to a sedan, at least it should liberate some space. Honestly without that it just would not feel like an upgrade. My wife was prompt to point that our Fusion was more spacious and would be pointless to go for the Fiesta.

4. The Manza I think is is a poor-mans-rich-car. Agreed there are niggles, but sit inside and you feel you are really in a much pricier car. Good on features too.

5. Please go through multiple Manza ownership threads on Team-BHP. Niggles are there, but nothing serious. Are you the fill-it, shut-it, forget-it types of a person, or do you get more involved. If you are the former, probably a Japanese car is what you want. If you are the later, look no further. Manza issues are very trivial.

6. Tata Motors spare parts are supposedly available off the shelf. Helps if you have a trusted friendly mechanic who will service the car post the warranty period. Tata spares are not known to be expensive. Ford parts are slightly expensive (at least for the fusion - a single B-pillar strip costs 1.5K + labour).

7. Concorde Motors Bangalore is supposed to have the best equipment/trained service engineers for the Manza. You can find references across multiple ownership threads about this. Not sure of your location in BLR, but that is a big relief for me at least.

8. In one of the threads on Tata Motors (with supposedly inside information on their operations), it was pointed out that the Tata Manza is manufactured in Fiat's facility and not Tata Motors. The engine and gear-box are sourced from Fiat. The engine has been adapted across so many cars now. That could help with getting any local fixes in the future.

9. Fiesta is an old car now. The new fiesta is here already, and only reason i think why Ford sells the classic is to allow them to position the new Fiesta higher. They have failed.....and miserably so. I would expect Ford to cut prices of the new Fiesta sooner than later (even the mighty Honda was humbled). Whenever that happens, would you still expect Ford to sell the Fiesta classic? I think not.

10. Responding to someone's comment in this chain - the only yellow-board Manzas that I have seen are from Taj Vivanta. Compared i have seen more Fiestas and Etios running around in yellow-boards (private cab operators though - not Meru). My observations may obviously not be an accurate representation of the taxi-market.



BOTTOM LINE
1. Do you want a great handling car with really poor space - Fiesta
2. Do you want an okayish handling car with really good space - Manza

I would lean towards the Manza based on the priorities/requirements you have mentioned.
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